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RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 10:30:31 PM   
kirkj


 

Posts: 129
Joined: 9/3/2002
From: spring, TX, USA
Status: offline 		do you have a recommended wood cutter for your plans? will the laser lizard short kits work if we have him adjust them to your scale? i assume yours are scaled avonds plans? what are people doing for gear and canopy for your sizes listed?

(in reply to Mike Emilio)
       Post #: 951

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:01:24 PM   
rhallgarth


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline 		If I need help Thomas I'll be on here. Might start a build thread. I am waffling a little on the EDF/turbine issue. I looked around my area and there doesn't appear to be any fields that are AMA certified where I can fly a turbine. It is only $2500 for a P-80 Jetcat at 21# thrust. When you figure a single DS-94 with supposedly similar thrust with all the batteries needed is over $1700 and maybe higher those turbines are awful tempting. If I go the BVM EVF the turbines night be cheaper but it always comes down to access to a sight that allows turbines. I have an old friend that has a private airport up here on his farm and he was threatening to pave it at least partially and it is wide open. I think there is a place a place in Mass west of Worcester but I am not sure. I'll look into it closely.

If I go turbine I'll buy an ARF turbine trainer and break that in or crash it. I might even do it with the EDF. As an Engineer and an ex-NASA Engineer I am anal compulsive about safety, testing, flight parameters, and training. One can see the results at NASA in the shuttle program when any of these are "forgotten/bent/omitted". If they held to those axioms Challenger and Columbia would still be flying. Pencil pushers, bean counters, and political suckups should leave it to the Engineers or better yet be eliminated from the equation but alas NASA is clueless except for JPL and several other facilities like Ames they haven't corrupted. Ok venting is over.

I have a JR PCM-10 but I am not risking this model nor will I fly anything as costly as this will be unless it is 2.4Ghz spektrum radio and that means either the Futaba 12 or the JR 12.

Any suggestions on the radio or the turbines and how soon during construction do you need to decide on power???

reh

(in reply to invertmast)
       Post #: 952

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:19:49 PM   
Tomcat_104


 

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/30/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Rachel,

I chose to go the Futaba 12FG route, I liked the feel of it more and I've always had good luck with Futabas. As far as when a power plant installation is required it depends on what type of fuselage you have. On any fiberglass fuselage the powerplant can be the last thing. On something built up you have to decide pretty early or be prepared to do a lot of "engineering". That translates into a lot of undoing of the stuff that you've already done.

They just showed up to cut my yard so I hope they get done soon because there's a Tomcat sitting in my foyer.

David


_____________________________

David

(in reply to rhallgarth)
       Post #: 953

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:20:15 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/17/2003
From: TorontoOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkj

do you have a recommended wood cutter for your plans? will the laser lizard short kits work if we have him adjust them to your scale? i assume yours are scaled avonds plans? what are people doing for gear and canopy for your sizes listed?

1). do you have a recommended wood cutter for your plans?

I have no contract arrangement with any cutter. Regardless of my plans all being very large, it's no big deal to simply tack glue any part to your wood, and cut to the line with a simple scroll saw, I use a small Dremell with only a 3" blade.
Since the paper is only tack glued, it's easilly stripped off when your done.

Some cut be hand using this method, others laser cut, regardless, it will cost you a bunch more if you pay someone to do it for you.

Some of these parts are big, and might go beyond the working table size of some laser machines, thus hand cutting might be better.

Ya, , the laser guy will tell you that he can notch, or "puzzle" large parts together. But that means breaking the wood grain and a massive glue joint! The smaller the table size, the more breaks and glue joints.

2). will the laser lizard short kits work if we have him adjust them to your scale?

No! The frame sections are different. Most especially in the area of the turbine.
If I recall, it's all metric parts and material, mine is all Imperial "inch".

3). i assume yours are scaled avonds plans?

Some areas are similar and others are not. You can't get away from the fact that any F-14 will have similar sections, after all, that's what makes it look like an F-14, but at the larger scales there's alot of changes other than material thickness.

4). what are people doing for gear and canopy for your sizes listed?

The guys that buy this big stuff know up front that they have to make their own. So far, this is the first time anyone has asked.
It's highly unlikely that any company would set up for this just to sell maybe 1-2 a year. And that's only if the builder stumbled across them. Face it guys, we're a dying breed! An experienced guy usually has no problem with the canopy, but the gear requires a bit of a machine shop.

Not too long ago, I sent a pm to Matrix. I asked if he would be interested in these scales, and if so, I would put a link to his site on my web page. His only response was, to put a link to his site if I like, but nothing about being interested in these scales. From his response, I gathered that he was either not interested or simply too busy.

On the Matrix web site, none of his gear state to which manufacturer the gear will fit. So you might buy a gear and it doesn't fit, then what. Then you find out that it's designed for a DCU, too late after you spent your money.

< Message edited by Mike Emilio -- 10/2/2008 11:34:36 PM >

(in reply to kirkj)
       Post #: 954

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:33:51 PM   
invertmast


 

Posts: 882
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: Bridgewater, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Reh,
did you get the BIG 1/7 YA F-18 or the smaller single? if you've got the smaller single, i think you'd be better off going w/ the turbine. As the space in that plane gets pretty tight, and from what i remember of the one i had. it would require alot of changes to allow access to install and remove batteries. Plus the bifuracated tail pipe would be a paint to make for the EDF setup. Tam sells a ready made Turbine conversion w/ tailpipe, tanks, and bypass ready to go for the single.

personally, i would go with the JR 12X. I've currently got a JR 9303 and honestly, its plenty for everything that i have on the Big F-18. I would decide on power plants before you start construction or VERY shortly aftewards. The single YA F-18 goes together very quickly ( i had mine framed up in a week).

KirkJ,
unfortunatley, anything larger than 1/9 size, your going to have to get a custom set of gear made, or "adapt" a set of ready made gear. I do believe that sierra custom have or could make a set of retracts and struts that would work, but be nowhere near scale. From what i have seen of the Matrix gear set, they are made to bolt into the swing wing mechanism of the DCU/JetmartUSA F-14 kits and aren't usable in the avonds w/o some major changes to the mounting system. Its been a few years since i've seen the matrix gear, so it could of changed by now.

_____________________________

Thomas W.
JR Vibe 50, YA F-18 Twin, Euro-sport, Balsa Bandit,

(in reply to Mike Emilio)
       Post #: 955

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:44:16 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/17/2003
From: TorontoOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: invertmast

KirkJ,
unfortunatley, anything larger than 1/9 size, your going to have to get a custom set of gear made, or "adapt" a set of ready made gear. I do believe that sierra custom have or could make a set of retracts and struts that would work, but be nowhere near scale. From what i have seen of the Matrix gear set, they are made to bolt into the swing wing mechanism of the DCU/JetmartUSA F-14 kits and aren't usable in the avonds w/o some major changes to the mounting system. Its been a few years since i've seen the matrix gear, so it could of changed by now.

Personally, I wouldn't care two hoots about the "exact scale" scenario.
I sent Darrell (Sierra), an email as well if he would be interested in this, that was maybe a year ago, still no reply. (2 emails actually)
I also bought a set of gear from him, that had some problems, I spoke to Darrell on the phone about a year ago, still waiting for the mod parts. After over 1 year waiting for these mod parts, , , , how long would you have to wait for an F-14 part.

I'm sure Century Jets might already have something that rotates properly, or could be modified to suit. And most likely much cheeper!
I spoke to them about the XP-67 Moonbat gear last year.
Never, never, any communication problems with Century

An SU27 gear is not really much different in the way it works.

< Message edited by Mike Emilio -- 10/3/2008 12:04:20 AM >

(in reply to invertmast)
       Post #: 956

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/2/2008 11:53:37 PM   
invertmast


 

Posts: 882
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: Bridgewater, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

quote:

ORIGINAL: invertmast

KirkJ,
unfortunatley, anything larger than 1/9 size, your going to have to get a custom set of gear made, or "adapt" a set of ready made gear. I do believe that sierra custom have or could make a set of retracts and struts that would work, but be nowhere near scale. From what i have seen of the Matrix gear set, they are made to bolt into the swing wing mechanism of the DCU/JetmartUSA F-14 kits and aren't usable in the avonds w/o some major changes to the mounting system. Its been a few years since i've seen the matrix gear, so it could of changed by now.

Personally, I wouldn't care two hoots about the "exact scale" scenario.
I sent Darrell (Sierra), an email as well if he would be interested in this, that was maybe a year ago, still no reply. (2 emails actually)
I also bought a set of gear from him, that had some problems, I spoke to Darrell on the phone about a year ago, still waiting for the mod parts.

I'm sure Century Jets might already have something that rotates properly, or could be modified to suit. And most likely much cheeper!
I spoke to them about the XP-67 Moonbat gear last year. Never, never, any communication problems.



Mike, i understand the frustration. I asked about a set of the 1/10 gear built per the drawings on the avonds plans to sierra over 3 years ago and never recieved an email either.

_____________________________

Thomas W.
JR Vibe 50, YA F-18 Twin, Euro-sport, Balsa Bandit,

(in reply to Mike Emilio)
       Post #: 957

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 12:01:49 AM   
Mike Emilio


 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/17/2003
From: TorontoOntario, CANADA
Status: offline 		My opinion on 1/10 scale F-14, , , it's a waste of time and money.

There's just very minimal room for todays technologies, and thus a much higher wing loading.

It's best left for ducted fan.

1/7 or 1/8 is the way to go. Lots of room for fuel tank location, and simply bigger wings for a lower wing loading.

1/6 and bigger is for the guys that truly want what most others can only dream about.
Real show stoppers, bar none!

< Message edited by Mike Emilio -- 10/3/2008 11:54:43 AM >

(in reply to invertmast)
       Post #: 958

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 12:23:02 AM   
Mike Emilio


 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/17/2003
From: TorontoOntario, CANADA
Status: offline 		kirkj, , ,

I clipped this from Lucas's project.

Regardless of scale, when you sheet the F-14 fuselage, simply sheet right over the canopy.

Later, just cut it out. Voila!! you now basically have the canopy plug. Pretty easy eh??

Another option would be to simply make a full cast right over the canopy area before cutting it out.
This is showing how I make a full cast, complete with framing, for the XP-67 Moonbat.

Either way is quite easy.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Mike Emilio -- 10/3/2008 12:33:38 AM >

(in reply to Mike Emilio)
       Post #: 959

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 12:33:53 AM   
Tomcat_104


 

Posts: 672
Joined: 7/30/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Mike,

I'm offended by your "waste of time and money" statement. The newest "technology" is EDF isn't it? I think turbines are great but they're not for everyone, they're especially not for me. I want to build a 1/8th one day but since I'm disabled that may take a little while.

I believe you're right about the lack of room for turbine fuel in the 1/10th scale although several people have success built and flown it. I believe Ronnie York at Jet Mart built a few of them as well.

I hope you did not mean to offend anyone with your opinion of the 1/10th scale (Avonds/Hobby Barn, Jet Mart, DCU) F-14. I know sometimes I can be a little bit anal but this post just rubbed me the wrong way and I had to say something.

I wonder if Jay Young Shim or Matt Holten would agree with your 1/6th statement. Oh wait a minute Jay built 2 - 1/10th and then 2 - 1/9th from enlarged Avonds plans (ALL turbine powered) and Matt built a whole line of F-14's that were 1/3th size (although they are EDF powered).

David


_____________________________

David

(in reply to Mike Emilio)
       Post #: 960

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 12:42:05 AM   
Mike Emilio


 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/17/2003
From: TorontoOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat_104

Mike,

I'm offended by your "waste of time and money" statement. The newest "technology" is EDF isn't it?
David
, , ,
Oh wait a minute Jay built 2 - 1/10th and then 2 - 1/9th from enlarged Avonds plans (ALL turbine powered)

To me it's a waste of time and money as a false sense of economy.
Incremental steps in scale might be about $200.00 for the extra materials.

So if I were to ponder on 1/10, it makes more sense economy wise, to spend $400.00 more or so, and have much more of an aircraft.

It would take no more time to put together 1/10, than it would for anything larger. It's just bigger pieces of wood.

Jai also made a number of post about the problems with 1/10.

If I read Jai's thread correctly, he did not build 4 aircraft as you suggest. Only 2. His first was at 1/10, and crashed on it's first take off. The second was a lesson learned so he built it bigger.

Turbines vrs EDF, it's only a personnal preference I think.

< Message edited by Mike Emilio -- 10/3/2008 12:57:09 AM >

(in reply to Tomcat_104)
       Post #: 961

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 12:44:09 AM   
rhallgarth


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: bedford, NH, USA
Status: offline 		It is the YA F-18 twin Thomas. All options or the works.

Finding a place in NH or even mass, Vt or maine where turbines are welcome and it is close enough to get to and from will determine what I use for power.

A p-80 Jetcat autostart with 21# thrust for $2495 is very tempting.

reh

(in reply to invertmast)
       Post #: 962

RE: My F-14 Tomcat building - 10/3/2008 1:01:41 AM