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1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 3:16 AM   
jayseas


 

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Status: offline 		What are the 1/2A combat guys today using for engines?Is there something that is more modern that is like the cox Tee Dee engine?


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 3:40 AM   
icerinkdad



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Status: offline 		The guys who are very serious about 1/2A combat (that sounds so weird...) use Eastern European made engines call Cyclon and Flora that are $200+ each.   Those that just want to have fun use a variety of other engines including VA's (I think no longer in production), Norvel (I know no longer in production) and a few have tried the Brodak 049 with an aftermarket head that uses a Nelson glow plug.    The aftermarket head is sold by a guy named Doug Galbreth (sp?) and improves the RPM on the Brodak engine by 1,500.    If you just want to get a feel for current 1/2A combat buy a Brodak Gladiator almost ready to fly 1/2A combat plane (I am fairly sure they are on their website but not in the catalog yet) the aluminum motor mounts and a Brodak 049.   Without the aftermarket head the Brodak may not even have the power of a TD but you can break in the engine with the stock head and get a feeling for how the plane flys.   There are better built ready to fly combat models but they are a bit harder to track down.  Join the combat groups on Yahoo and just ask questions.
Bob

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 5:21 AM   
jayseas


 

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Status: offline 		Bob, I have a wasp .061, due you think it might do the job on the Gladiator for some fun?

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 7:12 AM   
icerinkdad



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Status: offline 		It would be perfect as long as the needle valve can shut down the fuel flow all the way.  Power would be similar to what the high performance 049s produce although at lower RPM.  The 1/2A combat models use a pressurized fuel tank made from thin walled surgical tubing to give steady uninterrupted fuel flow.   Take the time to look up bladder tanks on the web (basicly a high pressure balloon made from surgical tubing) and look for the couple of videos online that show how a bladder tank works.    Again you could get some really good help from the yahoo groups.
Bob

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 7:48 AM   
jayseas


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Bob.

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 8:34 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		I have a Gladiator but have only flown it once. I used my trusty AME .049 that is very powerful with the gabreth head. The problem with my flight was the plane was very tail heavy. Also, there is no mention of CG in the instructions. I garuntee that any engine used other than a Fora or Cylone will need nose weight. This plane was designed around those types of high performance bb engine.
 the AME had a lot of power and flew the plane just fine BTW. The need for the more up to date engines would only come into play on a ntional type contest situation. For local stuff, the leser engines would be fine. Also, check with Larry Driskal, kittining it together, to see if he is still making kits. Those designs are great. Especially for the lighter engines.


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 7:40 PM   
jayseas


 

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Status: offline 		Does anyone know if the gabreth head will fit on the AP Wasp .061 engine?

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/19/2009 9:47 PM   
icerinkdad



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Status: offline 		I am about 95% sure that the Wasp has the same thread size as the Norvel and Cox engines.   If so yes as Galbreth makes a head for the Norvel and Cox that would work on the Wasp.    I do not know if it would be a big performance increase though.  The Brodak engine has a relatively poor head design that uses a standard glow plug.   Because of that the gain is much bigger.
Bob

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/20/2009 2:50 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Check out the kittining it together website. No engines or kits but he still has Galbreth heads, Nelson plugs and fine thread 1\2 A needle assemblies. These are a must with pressure. He also has the aluminum mounts that you need. They are already tapped for 2-56 bolts. Very handy.  Get a Gladiator and strap that puppy on, add some nose weight  and hold on!  Oh, put a small prop on it to get it revin'.


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/20/2009 3:08 AM   
jayseas


 

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Status: offline 		You speak of small prop. Is a 6x3 good or are talking smaller?

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 6/20/2009 6:06 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		I have never run anything larger than a 5-3. This was the prop for the TD engines. I think they had a longer stroke than the AME or VA.  Start with a 5-3 and you can always cut it down. I think you should prop to around 24,000 with a 5-3. the 4.125-3 should get you closer to 29,000-30,000 with a good engine. The Cyclone and fora I think are doing much better. I do not have one of those though.


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 8/2/2012 4:11 PM   
ken cook


 

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Status: offline 		            I've flown the Gladiator extensively for fun and competitively. All engines weigh in differently. I have handfuls of different engines here all appearing to look alike with differences greater than 1/2 oz. Off hand I can't say as I don't recall the weight of the AP. I do know however it will work. I had a piece of steel bolted to my mounts which was 3/16" x 3/4" by 1 3/4" long to balance the Gladiator using a AME engine. In order to run the Profi, I had to have a custom beam made extending the engine an additional 1" out beyond the engine block. In the case of the AP, I made a aluminum adapter that fit snugly into the AP case utilizing the rubber o-ring. I ran a tap through the existing case holes and used the set screws from Dubro wheel collars to lock my adapter in. The center of my adapter has been drilled and tapped 1/4 - 32  so that a TD venturi can be screwed directly into it. I use the Kirn Kraft style needle valve with the 128 tpi. The Galbreath Nelson adapter does fit the AP engine. I was using a APC 4.5 x 3.5 with good results and the APC 4.6 x 3  as well. I believe and its been told to me the real reasoning for the overcontrolled tail heavy performance of the Gladiator is the short control horn that's provided with the plane. I can't confirm that a larger one helps as I've never tried it. I just added the nose weight which by the way was quite a lot. Good luck, Ken


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 8/2/2012 5:21 PM   
paw080


 

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Hi Ken, can you describe the "GLADIATOR" design, that is, how much is the wing area

and total flying weight? I stopped flying 1/2A combat 20 years ago, this was just before

the Foras and other super peformance .049s displaced the Cox TDs. That was in

the 35' X .012" lines days.

The entry of the Hyper-performance .049s caused a rules change to 42' lines. This

actually caused the almost total demise of the popularity of the 1/2A event.

It cost too much to field 3-4 engines, and most competitors stopped designing and

building their own models; they simply bought RTF models at approx $50 each.

The real paradox was that even though the new models with modern engines were

capable of flying 8-10 mph faster than the TD models; on 42' lines, the modern 1/2A

models were flying the same lap times as the older TD ships!! My TD 1/2A Combat

models were as fast as anybody's models that I flew against; and I could trim my models

to fly faster than I could control them. I flew my models at 72-73 mph, My son could

control the same model at 75-76 mph. He was young and had the reflexes of a squirrel.


My ships were 200sq" designs. With the advent of the modern .049 engine,

I surmised that the new engines woud need a 320-335sq" wing to slow them down to 73-75 mph.

but they would have a lighter wing loading and out turn the TD ships...on 35' lines.

Apologies for the tome.

Tony

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 8/2/2012 11:23 PM   
ken cook


 

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Status: offline 		               Tony, the plane has a 37" wingspan. I don't have the instructions currently on hand. I'm going to take a guess of about 280 sqares. The plane is fun, but it doesn't come without problems. Out of the box, the plane is so twisted it flies about 35 deg tip high on the outboard wing. This isn't just mine. Everyone I've seen come out of the box flew this way. The covering is useless, tear it off right out of the box and recover or you won't be happy. I've had stock covering stay put about a maximum of 20 flights. I recovered with SLC Phil Cartier product. I never looked back. Either bush the cheap aluminum bellcrank at this point or replace with you own. I used some 3/32" T-6. The pushrod will wear out the bellcrank extremely fast. I know my explanation sounds semi negative, I truly like this plane as it does work. It just needs some help. A TD .09 will balance the plane spot on. The TD .09 weighs twice what the .049 weighs just to give you an idea of how much nose weight is needed. 

I flew the plane using a Stels .049 which worked well but it needed a good chunk of steel up front to balance it in. It did however do ok. I settled on a AME .049 and this needed even more weight but it did real well on 42" lines. If you have a good TD, I believe it would work. A ball bearing .049 still won't balance the plane. I had to have a custom mount extending the engine forward. In the eyes of most combat flyers this is a no no. I typically have my engines set back into my leading edges. However, even with the engine out there it flies well and I'm currently using 4 of them in my fleet. I do enjoy them. Ken


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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 8/4/2012 12:42 AM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		This is kind of an old thread, but there is a Picco P0 that is fairly fast.  It is either an.052 or an .06 and doesn't fit in the actual combat class. They are fairly cheap as an RC car motor at about $40 now because the cranks break pretty easily.  I would guess if the revs are kept down they may last but could be wrong.  A bit of work may need to be done because of the heatsink head and carb, but it could be good to fool around with.(it is a hobby)  The Galbreath heads and conversion heads for the Norvels and Cox's are ok, but now there are Merlin heads for about $5 that work well as I understand. I haven't tried mine yet but his regular plugs seem fine for the couple of flights I have had.  I am trying to justify getting a Fora, maybe some day.

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RE: 1/2A Combat engine ? - 8/4/2012 12:55 AM   
paw080


 

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Thanks Ken, That is a perfect description of the model and your efforts to get it

trimmed. I probably would have written it off as hopeless, but then I'm lazy. Since many

flyers are now flying 1/2A Combat with provisional rules allowing "Run what you brung"

displacement flexability, that is probably best, just to keep the fun going.

Tony

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