RE: New Funtana 125 (Full Version)

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tailskid -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/26/2009 12:47 AM)

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Ken Cz -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/29/2009 7:38 AM)

Anyone building or flying the Funtana 125 -

What dimension are you using for the CG? (manual says 6 3/8 to 6 3/4 in. aft of the leading edge next to the fuse)

I am trying to set mine per the manual and have had to add 12oz of lead plus a heavy 6oz A123 RX battery to side of the motor box.

Something seems terribly wrong. So much for keeping it light.

I am using a Saito 115 (1.3 oz lighter than a 125) so no big difference there and at the rear I have a Hitec 645 MG servo on the rudder and 2 JR DS 821's on the elevator. Using hardware that came with ARF.
Throttle servo is in designated position as is the AR7000 Spektrum RX.
I am using a APC 16-4W Prop so they don't get much heavier plus a heavy 2.75 spinner (not Tru-Turn).

Motor is mounted at dimensions per manual.

I am checking the CG with the aircraft in the normal upright position at the wing root and have also used the position/dimension given for the CG at the wing tip. Either place it is extremely tail heavy at the given cg.

This is nuts - there is no way I should have to add that much weight.

Any ideas on what to check or what I may be doing wrong will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/29/2009 7:51 AM)

Ken CZ: I have the new Funtana 125 with 5 flights on it at this time. I had to move the rec battery as close to the front as possible. It is right beside the fuel tank. Still had to add 3 50 cal lead balls on the side of the motor box. I am using the Saito 1.25 with a 17 x 4w and a true turn spinner. Balance point is now exactly half way between the balance points as stated in the manual. It flies great. I am using futaba 3305 servos. Three in the tail, 2 for wings, 1 for throttle. Consider that with a full fuel tank on take-off, the plane will be slightly nose heavy. I usually fly for 10 minutes and then land. Usually have about 1/4 tank of fuel left. I will tell you that the tail will try to sink on a very slow landing, so keep the nose down and all will be ok. When I land, the tail wheel usually touches the ground before the main gear, but is still an easy landing airplane. Have fun.



Ken Cz -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/31/2009 8:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Cz

Anyone building or flying the Funtana 125 -

What dimension are you using for the CG? (manual says 6 3/8 to 6 3/4 in. aft of the leading edge next to the fuse)

I am trying to set mine per the manual and have had to add 12oz of lead plus a heavy 6oz A123 RX battery to side of the motor box.

Something seems terribly wrong. So much for keeping it light.

I am using a Saito 115 (1.3 oz lighter than a 125) so no big difference there and at the rear I have a Hitec 645 MG servo on the rudder and 2 JR DS 821's on the elevator. Using hardware that came with ARF.
Throttle servo is in designated position as is the AR7000 Spektrum RX.
I am using a APC 16-4W Prop so they don't get much heavier plus a heavy 2.75 spinner (not Tru-Turn).

Motor is mounted at dimensions per manual.

I am checking the CG with the aircraft in the normal upright position at the wing root and have also used the position/dimension given for the CG at the wing tip. Either place it is extremely tail heavy at the given cg.

This is nuts - there is no way I should have to add that much weight.

Any ideas on what to check or what I may be doing wrong will be greatly appreciated.




Thanks!


OK - something is really wrong here with my Funtana 125 - It was one of the first shipped from HH as I had it on backorder for 3-4 months.
I completed the plane today and to get it to balance on the CG as stated in the manual I had to add 12 oz. of lead and hang a 6oz. A123 LiFe pack off the side of the engine box.
It is now balanced.
Problem is it weighs in at 9 3/4 lbs. - way too heavy for this plane/engine combo - Build Manual says it should weigh 8 to 8.5 lbls _ That puts me way ver the stated flying weight by about 1 1/4 lbs!!!!!!!!!
I did double check my weight on a digital hand held scale and it is correct?

Is it possible that a plane could be designed to be so tail-heavy or do I have an early one that for some reason. like high wood density, is way over the weight estimate?

I doubt it will fly very well at this weight especially with the Saito 115 I have up front ( don't panic - the 115 only weighs about 1.5 oz. less than a 125 - not 12+ounces!).

Any help on what I am doing wrong or what you think the best next step would be appreciated.

I think I will call Horizon Monday and see what they have to say.

Ken




Zeeb -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/31/2009 6:59 PM)

Hmmm.....

Don't usually play with glow models anymore but I've still got a Funtana 90 with a YS-110 on it that's kind of fun to get out every so often and it's getting tired, so I've been watching this thread.

The overweight/aft CG issue has been around since I put the 90 together; same advertised weight and they usually came out about what you're seeing i.e. somewhere in the 9 to 9 1/2lb range. Some folks claimed they got 'em lighter, but I don't see how that was really possible with the 90 other than possible scale errors....[8|]

That said; mines got a pull/pull rudder system to get the third servo out of the tail for CG purposes, a 3oz. battery (1100 mah A123) and the YS is only 3 ounces heavier than the Saito 100 which the 90 called for. While it does have a really quite large CG range I can move just by playing with the battery, there is no extra weight added for balance and it's still 9lbs.

I'd thought the newer Funtana models, especially this one, would have addressed these issues along with the airfoil concerns that the 100X was supposed to have fixed, but from your report it doesn't sound like anything in the all up weight/CG area has changed.



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (10/31/2009 7:18 PM)

Ken CZ: I just weighted my Funtana 125 and it is at 8 lbs 14 oz dry weight. 9 lbs is not too heavy if using a Saito 1.25 engine. It will do everything in the book if you can handle it.



Ken Cz -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 3:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnB96041

Ken CZ: I just weighted my Funtana 125 and it is at 8 lbs 14 oz dry weight. 9 lbs is not too heavy if using a Saito 1.25 engine. It will do everything in the book if you can handle it.


Johnb96041-
Still does not make sense - mine is close to a full pound heavier (14oz) than yours yet my engine (Saito 115) is only 1.3 oz. lighter than a 125.
The 14oz. is almost exactly what I had to add in lead to get it to balance at the specified CG.

I checked my rudder and elevator servo weights against those recommended in the manual by H9 and mine are just over a 1/3 of an ounce heavier for all 3 - I doubt that would work out to having to add 12-13 ounces to the nose.

Guess I will just follow though with Horizon and hopefully get a good day here in MI to fly it and see how it performs.

Ken



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 3:37 AM)

Ken CZ: Sounds like you should contact them. Hope for the best. I see from HH web site that the Funtana 125 is still out of stock. Thought it was going to be instock by late October. Looks like November now. If you call them, ask when they expect it to be available. Thanks



Burc -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 3:52 AM)

Guys

I just finished mine and it comes in at ~8.8lb dry.  I am using 9411s on the surfaces, a 2300mAh 6V battery strapped to the wing tube, and a EVO 1.20 and Bisson pitts muffler.  The EVO is 1oz heavier than the saito 125 with a pitts on.

As for the balance, I was able to balance it perfectly the ~170mm mark perfectly with a half tank of gas with no weights added eight off the bat.

Since the tank is located in front of the wing tube, the CG will shift around as the tank empties but I remember this was not a real problem with the X100.  

Burc



ro347 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 4:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Burc

Guys

I just finished mine and it comes in at ~8.8lb dry.  I am using 9411s on the surfaces, a 2300mAh 6V battery strapped to the wing tube, and a EVO 1.20 and Bisson pitts muffler.  The EVO is 1oz heavier than the saito 125 with a pitts on.

As for the balance, I was able to balance it perfectly the ~170mm mark perfectly with a half tank of gas with no weights added eight off the bat.

Since the tank is located in front of the wing tube, the CG will shift around as the tank empties but I remember this was not a real problem with the X100.  

Burc


shouldnt you be balancing with empty tank?



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 4:31 AM)

Always balance with empty fuel tank.......Yes, Yes, Yes........



Burc -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 5:20 AM)

Why do you recommend that? If the tank was right on the CG I would agree and it should not matter if the tank is empty or full.  However in this case the tank is up front.  Why balance it perfect by adding weight to the nose then add fuel and make it more nose heavy?  I've had good results before by doing the half tank setup.  But in the end, the first balance wont really tell you much.  After you fly it you will want to shift the CG around to suit your flying style anyway so as long as you are close to start with, it should be ok.



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 5:28 AM)

Each to his own. I have always balanced my models with an empty fuel tank. I have read this, practiced this and have never had bad luck with doing it. I would, however, suggest that you do things your way, if it works best for you.



AngLeo -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 6:34 AM)

Yes...EMPTY tank.....If ya balance with a half or so and you get up there,and easily get past that ....you will become tail heavy,making it harder to control and landing a tail heavy plane is harder to me because it doesnt seen to come down and can tip before it does.This happened on my Stick....the tail was nearly down and the gear wasup alot higher...Result: An end over crash that nearly destroyed it.I'll never would fly tail heavy again....its tough.BTW: HH sent me a BRAND NEW Pulse125 arf to replace the one crashed due to the elevator mishap....NO questions Asked!...Kudos to THEM!....And the Funtana125 is due on NOV. 15th the sales person said.Now i have two Pulses...one new and one assembled.Will sell one if anyone is intrested....send me a pm or E-mail :benrock-usa@roadrunner.com.



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/1/2009 9:59 PM)

Looks like another delay on the Funtana 125. HH web site is now saying late November. What is their problem????? At this rate the new BEAST will not arrive until sometime in 2012.



Drag -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/2/2009 3:18 AM)

Any one trying a Saito 100 ?



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/2/2009 4:04 AM)

Drag: If I ever get my second Funtana 125, it will either be all electric or I will stick my Saito 100 in it. Had the Saito 100 in my Funtana S90. It was a great flyer.



Drag -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 5:01 AM)

Thanks, JohnB that's what I was thinking. I did have a saito 100 in a ShowTime 90 and that WAS a great flyer,The Funtana 125 looks like about the same size. I had a 16X4W prop on that saito 100, off the ground in no time.



Ken Cz -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 5:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Cz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Cz

Anyone building or flying the Funtana 125 -

What dimension are you using for the CG? (manual says 6 3/8 to 6 3/4 in. aft of the leading edge next to the fuse)

I am trying to set mine per the manual and have had to add 12oz of lead plus a heavy 6oz A123 RX battery to side of the motor box.

Something seems terribly wrong. So much for keeping it light.

I am using a Saito 115 (1.3 oz lighter than a 125) so no big difference there and at the rear I have a Hitec 645 MG servo on the rudder and 2 JR DS 821's on the elevator. Using hardware that came with ARF.
Throttle servo is in designated position as is the AR7000 Spektrum RX.
I am using a APC 16-4W Prop so they don't get much heavier plus a heavy 2.75 spinner (not Tru-Turn).

Motor is mounted at dimensions per manual.

I am checking the CG with the aircraft in the normal upright position at the wing root and have also used the position/dimension given for the CG at the wing tip. Either place it is extremely tail heavy at the given cg.

This is nuts - there is no way I should have to add that much weight.

Any ideas on what to check or what I may be doing wrong will be greatly appreciated.




Thanks!


OK - something is really wrong here with my Funtana 125 - It was one of the first shipped from HH as I had it on backorder for 3-4 months.
I completed the plane today and to get it to balance on the CG as stated in the manual I had to add 12 oz. of lead and hang a 6oz. A123 LiFe pack off the side of the engine box.
It is now balanced.
Problem is it weighs in at 9 3/4 lbs. - way too heavy for this plane/engine combo - Build Manual says it should weigh 8 to 8.5 lbls _ That puts me way ver the stated flying weight by about 1 1/4 lbs!!!!!!!!!
I did double check my weight on a digital hand held scale and it is correct?

Is it possible that a plane could be designed to be so tail-heavy or do I have an early one that for some reason. like high wood density, is way over the weight estimate?

I doubt it will fly very well at this weight especially with the Saito 115 I have up front ( don't panic - the 115 only weighs about 1.5 oz. less than a 125 - not 12+ounces!).

Any help on what I am doing wrong or what you think the best next step would be appreciated.

I think I will call Horizon Monday and see what they have to say.

Ken



Update -
I talked to Horizon Hobby today regarding all the added weight I had to add on my Funtana 125 to get to the specified CG.

In the end they said the Plane was set up for the Saito 20 gas engine, and the extra battery and switch that goes with it. Hmmmm.
Obviously this set up weighs more than my Saito 115 - The engine is 6oz. heavier per HH.
Still don't make any sense since I hung a 6oz. A123 2300mah rx battery off the side of the motor box and still had to add 12 oz. of lead.
My rear servos are only about 1/3 of an oz.heavier than the recommended ones.

They really did not offer any solutions or answers or explanations- just some generalizations. I now have a plane that is more than a pound heavier than the highest advertised weight.
I can't really believe they designed a plane that would need this much lead up front.
Guess I have no choice but to fly it and make the best of a poor situation. After waiting for 5 months for the plane (on backorder) I guess I am just a bit disappointed that I had this problem. Every other plane I had from them was outstanding and the Quality of this one was fantastic - good looking and easy build. Zero problems with it other than the weight/CG problem.
Hope she still flys decent at 9lbs. 12oz.

Ken




JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 6:05 AM)

Ken CZ: according to the specs of the Saito 125 and the Saito FG20 the FG20 weighs 5.34oz more than the Saito 1.25. Here is a suggestion that might help get rid of some of the weight problem. Try moving the rudder servo to the inside towards the wing tube. That one servo move with a strong push rod and tube should change the balance quit a bit. Might fix your problem. Let me know what you think of the suggestion.



JohnB96041 -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 6:14 AM)

Ken CA: Here is another thought. Try talking to Craig Trachten. He runs Hobbytown USA in Brookfield, CT. He is the person that did the review in Model Airplane News, Nov 2009. I talked to him before I got my Funtana 125 and found out that he was one of about 3 people that got the model as a tester. I would be interested as to what he has to say about your balance problem.



Ken Cz -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 6:22 AM)

JohnB,
Thanks for the suggestion on moving the rudder servo - I mentioned the same thing to HH and suggested they might want to make a Pull-Pull rudder an option as other ARF's do.
Since our flying season is about over here in MI I may just go ahead and tear it apart over the winter.
Just frustrating - learned a good lesson. I will never install the rudder servo permanently until I check CG.

Also, I will try to talk to the fellow you mentioned and see what he may have to say.

Thanks for the support!

Ken



RealViking -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/3/2009 6:27 AM)

On my Funtana X100 I moved the rudder servo in to the cockpit and installed a pull pull linkage.
That saved me from having to add any nose weight. I also used DS821 servos on the elevators and H9 titanium pushrods.
My X100 has an O.S.120AX and weighs 8 lbs.
Using 750mA reciver Lipo, Micro servo for throttle, Lighter wheels and shafts, No wheel pants, lighter motormount,
lighter and smaller tank (The O.S.120 AX is actually using less fuel then my O.S.91 did) + some more modifications.
After reading what you guys are saying I guess I will have to do the Pull Pull rudder again in my Funtana 125.
I plan to run the Funtana 125 with an O.S. 95AX and will have to watch the tail weight.



gade600sdi -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/5/2009 7:26 PM)

OK, I have the Taylorcraft with the 20cc gas Zenoah engine. I turn a 16x6 prop around 8800. What are the opinions of installing a G20 EI into this bird? The Taylorcraft is 80 inch clipped wing and weighs 15 pounds all in. THe G20 is plenty of power for this big heavy Taylorcraft. (not talking about 3D)

I would rate the G20 easy more power as an OS91 and probably closer to a 120AX.

How would this work for general pattern flying and if I get 3D skills later on would it tourque roll with a setup like this? I really like the Zenoah motor, and the price is much better than the Saito FG20 or Evolution 26cc.



w8ye -> RE: New Funtana 125 (11/5/2009 8:35 PM)

Judge by the weight difference from a Saito FG20



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