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RE: KMP - 7/1/2009 7:30 PM   
flytaildragger


 

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From: Creswell, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Very nice 109 Freddie, I personally have one of these versions as well. You can see mine on www.magnumrc.com. One of the other scale details that is now available through magnum, is drop in electric wormgear retracts designed for the KMP retract mechanisms. There is a video there to demonstrate the scale realism. The electric wormgear design imitates the hydraulic up and down effect of the landing gear, and at the same time include a higher degree of reliability as well as simplicity and eliminate the maintenance issues of air systems in general. I for one will equip my Warbirds with these from now on because of the scale appearance and operation. The electric motors don't even consume the power of a regular servo and has power termination circuits built in so as to not run down the battery should something ever go wrong. Great product!

< Message edited by flytaildragger -- 7/1/2009 8:14 PM >

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RE: KMP - 7/1/2009 7:39 PM   
Fearless Freddie


 

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Status: offline 		Evil Merlin,

I live in a teeny- tiny cottage where space is very limited ( weedeater size yard) . Local noise and other codes don't allow for glow engines or outdoor work shops and such. Part of the price I pay to enjoy the enviroment I guess and stay married.. I don't have anywhere much to build a plane but the small area of the homes front window seal or maybe the kitchen table. or crossed legged on the floor. HEE HEE HEE. I have some wish books of 109's I stare at and see versions I like , but I don't have all that much spare time to customize and paint either. I just mix and match stuff and get a look that suits me , realizing that I don't know really squat what I'm doing fars as concours goes or correctness, but the stock paint from esm is satisfactory for my uneducated warbird tastes. I have got spoiled by ESM , and do find myself critical of my other balsa / monocoat covered shiney arfs. I call these practice planes. Pet peeve... I hate slab sided ARFS...YUK!!! The 7O" ESMseries planes fit in my van nicely in one piece .

Your Humble Servant ,
Freddie

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RE: KMP - 7/1/2009 7:54 PM   
Fearless Freddie


 

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From: Emerald Isle, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Hi flytaildragger ,

Oh yes!!! matter of fact ......I have already got the magnum RC lado/ESM retract conversion kit. This new retract system will go in my Mustang -51 "B" this fall. I also got some better aluminum scale wheels and a bit of help form Darrell at Sierra. I'm very excited about building the Mustang. I also have a Aluminum 4 blade spinner and 18 " prop to put on the front of the Bald Eagle II.

I may do the conversion this weekend........while I lay low & HIDE out from the tourist....

FYI ...... OH...I do have a work vise. Its in my FORD VAN. I guess I could paint in there

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RE: KMP - 7/1/2009 8:18 PM   
flytaildragger


 

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Status: offline 		E, in Andrew's defense, He was in China during most of January with the bigger picture on his mind. Striving to breath the KMP inspiration into our products. Some of the past customer service issues have been the ongoing cross continent relations that inherently delay part availability. This is the main reason he hired me with 30 years modeling experience, I can usually help most modelers in putting these planes together. One thing Andrew Kondor does for our industry is to continually aspire to improve the purchase experience for the value the modeler spends. You can see it in a track record from when he first started. Most anything that will bear the KMP brand name, will be a model of distinction, and it must be maintained to continue to bear that name.

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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 1:14 AM   
Shihtzutan



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From: Riverside, RI, USA
Status: offline 		Hmm, so KMP ditched the Chinese huh? Maybe that's good, but my experience with KMP left an undesirable taste in my mouth. I got tried of waiting for a replacement wingtip for my Spit. I sent pictures and wrote a nice friendly letter; after twp months and two people and 4 emails later, I ended up carving new ones! Just as well, they were the wrong shape anyway. I never did hear back from anyone. Maybe I'll try them again, maybe I'll have to see someone elses first. I'm going to be harder to convince the second time around.

< Message edited by Shihtzutan -- 7/2/2009 1:15 AM >

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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 6:45 AM   
w0mbat



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin

Not true at all. The time it takes to design a non-scale fuse should be no more than a scale fuse.



Yes, the actual drawing of the plans is not too difficult, however, you need to keep in mind that many of the companies who are producing the molds have no experience with the actual airplane or any warbird for that matter. They are business people who know how to manufacture products. It takes a long time to research and draw perfectly scale plans for a new ARF. It takes even longer to send it to a company and get the exact product that you intended. This means tens of thousands of dollars in air transport charges, mold charges and tooling charges. I won't even go into the setup and testing time involved in each prototype.

A non-scale plane is inexpensive and easy to make. A semi-scale plane is more expensive and more time consuming. I have to agree with others, a good flying, true to scale ARF is almost impossible to mass produce at any type of reasonable cost. I suppose it could be done with advanced materials and a boatload of money for design and production but you would never even come close to making your initial investment back.

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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 9:31 AM   
slyms


 

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Status: offline 		Hi w0mbat,

You have obviously had experience with companies over there. It is difficult with the distance, language and other things you have mentioned. I really didn't want to use this as an excuse as it either sounds like we are blaming them or they don't have the ability which is not the case. We deal with other companies over there (yes there is more than one ARTF company in China ) who don't have any personal involvement in model aircraft at all but still make perfectly good ARTF's. Add to this that in recent years China has changed a lot, and the old mindset of staying with a company for life has been replaced with the westernised concept of job hoping for personal improvement. I don't blame them, as the world gets a smaller place it allows more traditional countries to be influenced by the Wests disposable society, it's a shame really!

I would class ESM as one of the more involved company's, they genuinely care about what they produce quite often pointing out things that we didn't notice ourselves. Imagine if you had a company that sold the majority of it's produce to a country on the other side of the world with a way of life that was nothing like your own. I would personally struggle to imagine what the Eastern punter would want from his hobby.

The original Focke Wulf was simply human error, the important thing is that they listened to the criticism and changed the moulds, I'm not aware of any other ARTF manufacturers that would do the same. The thing is EM that we do listen to you and others, but you are so aggressive and damning of everything that it's sometimes difficult to maintain our enthusiasm when the easier route of sports models and semi scale would make life simpler. If it were one guy that did every process and had a passion for that particular aircraft then things would be easy, but delegation will naturally cause errors to creep in which without the option for all to meet around a table and discuss the project is bordering on impossible. Instead we have to rely on Emails and very expensive long distance calls, often using very basic English due to the language barrier. Once again ESM are better than most as they tend to understand a lot more than I would if the tables were turned. I hope you can see that your comments could have the reverse impact and actually cause us to stop making scale models, but you are only one voice and although we respect your opinions the majority are happy with the current products.

It is true that some of the larger distributors avoid any comment on forums for this exact reason, I suppose we are niave in thinking that being available to our customers in such a public way is a good idea.

Yes I have seen some of the projects on here by members who are making their own plugs for moulding, but they are generally a labour of love by an enthusiast. The same could be said for people who plan build and have the luxury of choosing their materials very carefully, these same people sometimes struggle to understand why ARTF's cannot be the same weight or finish. I sometimes think that some customers forget their isn't a big model making machine that you put wood in the one end and take a finished model out the other, but instead their are departments for moulding, building, covering etc. that are all manual processes. It still amazes me how any company can build ARTF's for the low prices they charge, you certainly wouldn't get anyone over here willing to work for such a meagre profit.

Please don't take any of this as an excuse for outline issues, but as you constantly remind of the same facts I have tried to give you a reason good or bad. I hope your reply will be in the same manner and not a repeat of previous posts. If it wasn't for the many happy customers both ourselves and KMP have, and I thank all those who have jumped on here in our defence, then we would have gone a different route a long time ago as it can be very draining on the soul. I'm sorry if my posts appear down hearted, they generally aren't written as that. After all I'm watching Spongebob Sqaurepants while writing this so I'm quite happy really.

Sym.

< Message edited by slyms -- 7/2/2009 9:45 AM >


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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 10:20 AM   
Johnnie Red



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin

quote:

By the way I didn't see you all guys, -while you claim that you are so into the subject- at the F4C FAI World Championships 2008...... I was there with the Greek Team F4C-Scale.....Where were you and your masterpieces of perfection????


I was busy with Top Gun...


I hope you are not still busy with it!

Well..... still I and many others on this thread are waiting of your masterpiece's photo's........ Being critic to somebody without letting anyonelse critisize you is an insult and only!!!

Let us see your work; since I tried to see from your Member R/C Dossier (rc universe) and I couldn't see much!!!!!!

We are waiting ...all of us! Post of your own BEST handicraft FW109...so we all see your masterscraft design!

J.R.

< Message edited by Johnnie Red -- 7/2/2009 10:29 AM >

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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 11:32 AM   
Tony Gag Jr.



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Status: online 		Are there any pictures of the new and improved FW-190?

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RE: KMP - 7/2/2009 2:26 PM   
hellcat56



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Status: offline 		to Sysn and Andrew at KMP
I have listened to the complaints and really have heard enough
You are to be commended by all of us scale nuts
you put out a product that is not only scale, good looking but almost completely ready to fly out of the box

Around here central Texas your planes at the various fields stand out in the crowd
we now have a multitude of scale planes showing up every day and flying
To the couple of self appointed purist if you dont like these planes- change the channel -I dont know of anyone that is making you buy the product
In America you have a choice how you spend your money
Me and the very large majority really enjoy KMP and are VERY glad they are putting out new scale planes almost every year.

If they are not scale enough for you CHANGE it up
I have repainted my ME 109 added some cockpit detail
but do I want KMP to do the same NO let me make the changes if I want
Just my two cents but I really dont care what the plane weights
I have the Bearcat It flys great 19 lbs
I have the 109 It flys great 15 lgs
Both always get comments at the field
Keep it up
I fly in AMA scale competitions , including the NATS and the Scale Masters Championships

to the criti who flys went to Top Gunwhat did you fly and how about a photo of itnot to critize it but I just like scale planes
Hellcat 56



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RE: KMP - 7/3/2009 12:19 PM   
LDM


 

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Status: online 		wow~~~~~
why is TBM -Troy Build Models selling the KMP planes at $2oo to $250 under typical KMP price ?
the Dauntless $299
the corsair $319 ???
is there trouble brewing with the current inventory ?
are sales slow with the current economy ?
those prices indicate a major change in marketing or a simply liquidation of current inventory .

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RE: KMP - 7/3/2009 2:42 PM   
Signoir


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with hellcat56 100%.

I purchased three of KMP’s planes, the Tigercat, Typhoon, and Dauntless.

In each case the plane has exceeded my expectations in looks and quality. When I needed to contact KMP for support Andrew took care of the issue quickly and to my satisfaction. In fact, Andrew sent me the plywood cowl ring for the Dauntless, before I even knew it was missing.

I have been so happy with these planes, that I placed an order for a Pilatus PC-21.

I for one will continue to buy from KMP.

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RE: KMP - 7/3/2009 6:54 PM   
flytaildragger


 

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Status: offline 		LDM, as I may of mentioned earlier in this forum, KMP and ESM have separated. Due to simply two pathways that weren't on the same page for both companies. They established themselves with TBM as a result. The new planes being offered through TBM will not bear the KMP name or the continuing inspiration of KMP. Our new focus will be reflected in a new and different scale lineup starting late fall this year. Andrew has awesome plans for you guys. I can't wait myself to get one of the new ones.

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RE: KMP - 7/3/2009 7:16 PM   
johnnyjet



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quote:

ORIGINAL: LDM

wow~~~~~
why is TBM -Troy Build Models selling the KMP planes at $2oo to $250 under typical KMP price ?
the Dauntless $299
the corsair $319 ???
is there trouble brewing with the current inventory ?
are sales slow with the current economy ?
those prices indicate a major change in marketing or a simply liquidation of current inventory .


Hi LDM
I just talked with Gene at Troy Built Models.
He expects the corsair to be available October 1st.
Fixed shipping at $59 dollars –USA.
I sure am glad I got mine before the price went down LOL

Johnny



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RE: KMP - 7/3/2009 11:57 PM   
nemesis4u



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From: Bryan, TX, USA
Status: offline 		LDM, Johnny , et al...

In regards to the entire KMP , ESM, TBM etc...
We have been a stocking KMP dealer for a long time... We still have stock of KMP WARBIRDS and are currently having our sell off...
please see the RCU MARKET PLACE... New "ESM" WARBIRDS are arriving in OCTOBER...
WE are now an AUTHORIZED "ESM" DEALER and our website will be updated in the coming weeks!
WE are for WARBIRD ENTHUSIASTS by WARBIRD ENTHUSIASTS. I am a Warbird Pilot myself and member at BOMBERFIELD here in TX. WE not only sell, but fly our products...
In the future we will also be carrying the KMP LINE of LARGER Warbirds as well....

Thank you for your patronage over the years and now we look towards the future with eagerness as we start a new chapter with ESM/TBM , KMP and of course VQ WARBIRDS...

-CHEERS!

-TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
"KEEP 'EM FLYING"

www.vqwarbirds.com
info@vqwarbirds.com

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 12:25 AM   
LDM


 

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Status: online 		Ok , lol I am confused , PDQ , LDM , KMP yada yada yada .
1)Ok so ESM separated from KMP got that so why would there be a sell off of great quality planes made under the direction of KMP by ESM to TBM
Unless -esm had production on hand contracted by KMP but not purchased and now they are selling the inventory on hand to TBM until both companys reintroduced there own line ?
2)Will the TBM models be of the same quality that we expected from KMP , and if so why such a reduction in price ?
3)Was there that much of a markup ? Assuming ESM is the manufacture KMP the distributor ect you would assume that TBM has the same or similar mark up to KMP
4)Is TBM a simply factory rep of ESM therefore working on lower markup ?
5)Again I know in my business if we contract an MOQ and its exclusive for us and under licensed rights by our brand or a brand we pay for , the manufacture can sell the MOQ out from under us if we do not take the MOQ and charge us a signifigant penality .
I know this is not about RC -but it is , I would love to know what the features and benifits we all assumed qualified for $250 more then the typical CMP is now priced at the same price as CMP .
Now mind you while everyone on RCU wants me to shut up on the price decrease (I will ) but curious minds would love to know if the TBM price will stick from now on , then katie bar the door , lets start ordering -same deal with our buddy Thomas -nobody beats his servace , so if I order a Walmart deal on a KMP plane its coming from Thomas !!!!

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 2:28 AM   
flytaildragger


 

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Status: offline 		LDM, I am trying to make it clear, KONDOR MODEL PRODUCTS no longer will have their name on these planes... What you buy from ESM or TBM at a later date will not include Andrew Kondor's inspiration. KMP is moving on to bigger and better. From the business side of things, We distributed them entirely in the US and Canada. This has changed and the involvement of KMP with ESM no longer exists. We can still get parts etc, Our slogan, "A Model of Distinction" will be applied to other endeavors as Andrew Kondor moves forward in this fast paced ever changing market where the demands of the discerning modeler continue to be heard. We offer technical expertise when you get stuck, I helped form www.magnumrc.com where KMP modelers can locate hard to find accessories to assemble their aircraft. The hard to find spinner hub for the Aerovate 26cc that belongs on a Corsair or Bearcat or Tigercat if you use these engines can be found there. KMP, were not bowing out but up and to a different plane.

(lol nice pun eh?)

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 4:52 AM   
Evil_Merlin


 

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Status: offline 		So after all of that, looks like I was right after all...

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 6:12 AM   
nemesis4u



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Status: offline 		HELLCAT56 , LDM, JOHNNYJET et al...

I am also very disappointed... I paid more for all my inventory.. then the Factory drops prices, changes DISTRIBUTORS, upsets all the balance, I get hosed on what I paid for my current inventory... and now everything is getting balanced out again...I take a loss...pretty good one... however....

In the long run it will be good for the industry... Andrew gets to go into a new phase of operations, ESM gets their wish, and customers get what they have been asking... less expensive models that are awesome...

I look at this brief time as a restructuring of the "IMPORTS" ....
It hurts my inventory cost big time for the inventory I have left... so I am going to just stop the bleeding as quickly as possible and then move forward with the new models, pricing etc... need to write it off as experience with the economy, factories, distributors etc....

In the end... I should make it out ok...

I appreciate all you great customers and look forward to continuing to serve you well into the future...

ESM WARBIRDS Coming in OCTOBER:
STUKAs
Spitfires
SBD Dauntless
CORSAIR
HELLCATS
KI-84 FRANKS
F-7F TIGERCATS

I will have all NEW UPDATED ESM PRICING, PHOTOS, and ordering on the www.vqwarbirds.com website in the next few weeks ,,, you will be able to pre-order for OCTOBER!

-THANKS AGAIN!!

>>>>MOVING FORWARD...

-TOMAS
www.vqwarbirds.com
info@vqwarbirds.com

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 10:57 AM   
LDM


 

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Status: online 		Good luck Tomas , as always I want to support your effots . You are by far the most active distributor on RCU & RC groups . I think you should negotiate picking up lado retracts , your excellant communication would have calmed many RCU members as they wait months for answers and gear

I am looking forward to the new esm planes ect it would be great to see a new offering at the $300 to $349 range to compete with the existing CMP
CMP has gotten better as well and raised the bar , while accuarte in scale the new BF109 and the 73" P40 released 3 years ago are showing that Jackie is also very responsive to the rc modelers demands . There is no hidden agenda with CMP or hidden expected claims , -its simple value for the modeler who knows how to build and fix ,(tweek ) a good arf .

My last comment to you Tomas is in the future you should negotiate "floor stock protection agreement " very common in the CPG industry with distributors and whoesalers .Unless the supplier declairs chapter 11 , the set price drops ect are protected by the supplier and refunded in billbacl form to the distributor . If you not able to get this , you need to choose wisely in your future endeavors with certain suppliers
Thanks and good
Lou

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RE: KMP - 7/4/2009 10:58 AM   
LDM


 

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Status: online 		While describeing CMP " i meant to say while NOT accurate in scale " man , need to fix that one quick , I do need 700 pms on that blunder lol

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RE: KMP - 7/5/2009 5:35 AM   
AKondor


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Guys: In the next few months you will see us introducing a great new line of warbirds. They will hands down be the best yet from KMP. I can confirm that all planes will be 80 + inches and for the rest of the details you will need to stay tuned. Aircraft will be rolling out at about 1 new plane every 2 months! I can also tell you that the first two planes we introduce will be subjects that we have never released before. Our first Navy Aircraft will have an articulating tail hook as well!

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RE: KMP - 7/5/2009 7:05 AM   
Flight 21



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evil_Merlin

Alas all your postings in this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6066479/anchors_6066479/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6066479 are now gone Andrew...

I'll have to search the Way Back Machine for the posts...

THIS IS SO STUPID. Evil Merlin It is truly unfortunate when insecure little boys like yourself show up in forums like this. Take your panties and go log on to the soap opera forums and whine and complain. Your type are not hard to see - there is nothing constructive, just banter. I have been looking for thread info on KMP planes and have had weave through your ridiculous unwarranted bashing of KMP for insecure psychotic reasons. Get a LIFE and go do something constructive yourself. My grandfather used to say if you cant find a product you are happy with then start a company and sell it yourself. So why dont you build and sell scale ARFS - show us how easy it is! Or, do what most modelers do when seeking exact perfection - SCRATCHBUILD your own!

Regardless, it is really easy to sit back and bash a product from your little computer - but it takes a man to put his heart and soul into building a company to that supports our hobby. You dont belong on this message board or anywhere else so keep your insecure delusions to yourself. And by the way, have you given any though to the fact that people at KMP are doing their best and these people are feeding their families by trying to provide hobbyists like us with models for our enjoyment? I assume you have not - as your type is usually fighting with reality between flying model airplanes and the real world.

As for Andrew Kondor and the KMP crew: Dont worry about this type - nobody listens to their ranting anyway. They cannot hide their ignorance and sink their own ships... I look forward to my first KMP plane!

< Message edited by Flight 21 -- 7/7/2009 8:39 PM >

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RE: KMP - 7/5/2009 8:00 AM   
mike early



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AKondor
I can also tell you that the first two planes we introduce will be subjects that we have never released before. Our first Navy Aircraft will have an articulating tail hook as well!


Perhaps the other one will be a P-40!


P.S. Is it possible to get a replacement Horizontal stabilizer and elevator for the KMP (ESM) Corsair?

What does ESM stand for, anyways? Do they sell spare parts at all?

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(in reply to AKondor)
       Post #: 99

RE: KMP - 7/5/2009 9:13 AM   
vik



Posts: 431
Score: 100
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 10/20/2009
From: Czech Republic
Status: offline 		What is the point?
ESM is not producing that off scale models. In comparison to CPM it is like KPM to Brian Taylor plan build plane.
As this is still ARF for reasonable price (I´m not too rich to buy too cheap things as I learned than I will buy twice)
I don´t use ESM retracts I got Shindin gear for my 109 and I´m happy.

The thing is, ARF is for people who don´t have mostly time to build plane from scratch. ESM products are good base to produce nice semi scale model (nothing for Top Gun).
There are on the market as well products which are larger and more scale, but the price is somewhere else and it is still a kit.

As far KMP they have not bad feedback what I was able to see here. Basically only EM is complaining.
I don´t want to comment the fact of changing the sales structure.

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(in reply to mike early)
       Post #: 100

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