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Extreme Composite Proline - 6/28/2009 10:03 PM   
UKpatternflyer


 

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From: Crewe, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi,

Does anyone have any direct contacts with Extreme Composite? I need to source a new Underpan and Canopy for my Proline asap

Hope you can help

Keith

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 2:30 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		This is their email ... info@xtremecomposite.com

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 7:04 AM   
UKpatternflyer


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the email address; I've just written to them. I was hoping for a more direct contact though, perhaps someone who works there; I met Nuttawutt in Argentina in 2007 but cannot remember his contact details.

Keith

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 7:28 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Keith ... call him (I know its expensive), Rattana Nuttawutt should be contactable that way ...

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 7:45 AM   
Nickolas



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Status: offline 		Hi Keith.

What happened to the Proline?

Did you contact Throttlestore?

Regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 8:24 AM   
UKpatternflyer


 

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From: Crewe, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Tianci, thanks for the advice I'll call him today.

Nickolas, I had some problems with the fuel pump on my CDi engine casuing a big back fire which mashed the underpan at the front. It went back together but it looks a bit of a mess. Then finally as I was really getting on with the Proline yesterday, the sun decided top get particularly strong and melt the canaopy! By the way I take back what I said about the 19 x 11 prop; I'm now using the new Hyde LR85 mount and this suits the Proline, DZ170 / 170 CDi using this prop very well, in fact really really well. How's your's getting on?

Keith

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 9:41 AM   
Nickolas



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Status: offline 		Hallo Keith,

Canopy melt??? That's very unfortunate. Hope you will replace it.

My PL is ok I think the plane flies well now after some modifications, change of thrust, forward CG and canaliser. It also snaps very well (when I perform snaps... )I run the 18.1x10 on the 170DZ which slows the plane enough at the downlines and also can fly very slow. However this prop does not provide the acceleration required in windy conditions. I have ordered the APC 18.1x11 and 19x11 but they have been at the customs for about 3 weeks now... I will carry on the 170DZ don't have time for a CDI test.

The only issue I face is that on idle the stab vibrates a lot along the horizontal axis not the vertical (I don't think is related to the soft mount which is Budd Eng). This is a fuselage issue at the tail and probably needs some re enforcement with a vertical carbon pin. I told my friend Alex to ask you about this issue in Romily he said you faced the same??? Why didn't you fly the plane at the contest really?

Regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 2:07 PM   
UKpatternflyer


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Nikos,

Yeah I think all the EC Prolines exhibit large vibration near the tailgroup. Its a resonant mode of the structure and there's very little you can do about this via the mount. Only stiffening would help as you mentioned but that means adding weight and you might exacerbate it if you add the weight near the point of max movement. That said most airplanes have these issues in one form or another; when the tail falls off I'll be worried. I didn't fly the Proline in Romilly as I didn't have it flying the way I wanted. I was experimenting with wing incidence to stop it pulling to the nose in vertical climbs but this made the rest of the flying poor. So its back now to normal incidence and suddenly its going very well indeed, much better than my Angels Shadow. It still wanders on power off pullouts like at the bottom of the 1/2 rev Cuban8 or stall turns and I have to be very careful to hold its heading the way I want it to go. Rolls though are exceptional and I hope it will have a bright future.

BTW I'm back on a DZ170 for the PL turning 7500 on Optifuel 30% heli and APC 19 x 11.

Bets wishes

Keith

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 3:02 PM   
Nickolas



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From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Hi again Keith,

Good, hope to see you flying live at some point, your flying received very good comments indeed specially in wind.

My PL pulls to canopy slightly on the uplines, I have to also correct with DN elevator to keep the track of the plane, specially just before 2nd point roll on the upline of manouvre 4 P09 . On straight horizontal I fly with a bit of right rudder, as I don't want to increase the right thrust any more. At idle I use low throttle to left rudder mix to cancel out the right rudder effect.

Also use some low throttle to DN elevator mix for the downlines, nearly no rudder to elevator mix for the KE. The plane has some roll coupling tendency that I don't correct with mixing. Mixes are always on so when use the rudder in straight horizontal I don't want to have unwanted aileron inputs.

Note: The wing and stab are parallel to each other. The down and right thrust is more than the stock one, I have not measured it to be honest.

The planes seem to be setup then, now let's go practicing.

Best regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/29/2009 11:36 PM   
Niall


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
What differential are you using.

Niall

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/30/2009 7:10 AM   
Nickolas



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Status: offline 		Hi Nial,

I use no differential.

Regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/30/2009 7:15 AM   
UKpatternflyer


 

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From: Crewe, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I was using differential till recently but have taken it off now and it rolls better than ever, especially on the upline. I'm pretty sure the pulling to the canopy thing is just the wrong amount of downthrust but there's no way of adding this without it looking very odd at the front. What Cof G are you guys using?

Hey Niall, are you in the Triple Crown this weekend?

Keith

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 6/30/2009 5:08 PM   
Niall


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Keith, Nickolas,
Thanks, was wondering as it dosn't seem to need any!. Im running the standard CG of 170mm.

No wont make it this year unfortunately, first time in 11 years that I will miss the event.

Niall

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/1/2009 8:56 AM   
Malcolm H



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From: glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		We will miss u Niall,

If they let an old git like me play again next year hopefully will see u then.

Cheers

Malcolm

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/1/2009 11:32 AM   
Angus Balfour



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From: Glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Just incase anyone is interested here is my set up for the Proline:

CG 175mm back from LE
Side thrust/down thrust as per nose ring
Differential = 0.

I normally start of with the ailerons moving equally up and down so I presume I did the same with this plane.

My model pulls to the canopy very slightly in uplines and the same in downlines. Uplines was so small I've not done anything and for downlines the normal low throttle to elev mix.

As I mentioned to Keith if the model is pulling to the canopy markedly I would either:

1) Move CG back

OR

2) Increase the wing incidence.

< Message edited by Angus Balfour -- 7/1/2009 11:37 AM >

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/1/2009 11:35 AM   
Angus Balfour



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Status: offline 		BTW, the above CG location was measured with the wing off.

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/4/2009 7:35 PM   
Nickolas



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From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Hi,

Here is a recent video of the ProLine with canaliser, not the best quality but you can get an idea. We did our best to keep the plane in track with the cam, but was not possible in all ocassions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbvtfigM0Xo

Regards,
Nikos

PS: My Hatori 823 just broke today, would you recommend Hatori or Asano really for the next one? I use the 821 pipe.

< Message edited by Nickolas -- 7/4/2009 7:40 PM >

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 2:15 AM   
tommy s


 

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Status: offline 		What do you think the canaliser does for you ?

tommy s


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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 4:14 AM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Nice flight Nikos, where did the header broke? did you left at least 2mm between the flange and the pipe for expansion?

Regards

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 9:00 AM   
Nickolas



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From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Hi Tommy,

The TCan theoritically creates turbulent flow on the rudder and thus makes it more effective at both high and low speeds.

Hi Apeira,

Thank you, these are some pics from the broken header. Your comments are apprediated.

Regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 2:14 PM   
riot3d


 

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Status: offline 		I'm guessing you are using a Budd mount? If in the affirmative, they are harder idle mount, probably the reason causing the header to break. My 823 is over 600 flights with a YS mount, no issues at all.

Adrian

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 2:54 PM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		I've had two Hatori headers break, both with Hyde mounts, so I don't think the mount is the issue. The latest header I got has a two piece tube, the piece going into the flange being larger in diameter, and then brazed onto a smaller diameter after the first bend. I had one old style break at the bend, cracking the tube itself, and one where the braze failed at the flange to the tube. Central would have replaced the second one since it failed after only about 5 flights as it was an obvious workmanship issue, but they didn't have any in stock at the time. I had it rebrazed locally, but it then failed at the first bend after about 50 flights. Rebrazing may have affected the heat treatment of the steel. The new style header appears stronger.

Two things probably helped contribute to the failures. One, is I probably had the tube going too far into the muffler, and it was bottoming out in the muffler as the header expanded with heat. Second, it appeared that the header may have been occasionally lightly hitting on the cowl at extreme movements. I corrected both issues and I haven't had a failure since, knock on wood.

All that being said, I now carry spare headers with me.

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 4:32 PM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Hello Nikos,

As Jon said, it could be hitting the cowl, but I would like to know what are the mounts on the engine and muffler, do you a picture of the whole thing before it broke?
Did you leave the gap in between the header and the muffler? if not that will definitely damage the muffler or header due to the vibration stress not been relived.

I got the Budd mount on my first Osmose and worked great, we have never got a header broke with any of the configurations we use, I used the Budd mount with the Nishioka muffler base, now I use the YS mount and the Nishioka, I honestly think the YS mount is the best of all the avail ables right now, followed by the Hyde and Budd.

Best regards

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/5/2009 9:39 PM   
Nickolas



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From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Hi there,

Thanks for the answers!

Here is a recent pic of my setup...Budd Engineering soft mount, with CH nose ring, and Nishioka pipe mount. By the way this header lasted for about 130+ flights. There were some cases of backfire were the header might have hit the underbelly. Akiba on his own plane cuts the belly so that the header is visible. I may do the same...

I have seen plenty of pics with the Japanese pilots using Asano headers with Hatori pipes...there must be a rational behind I suppose. However the Asano costs 2-3 times more than the Hatori one. I have a already placed an order of two 823s, I would install a brand new 170 on my model anyway so it is a good chance to replace the header too. However this will postpone practice with my A model for some days....

Regards,
Nikos

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RE: Extreme Composite Proline - 7/6/2009 5:38 AM   
apereira


 

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From: Caracas, VENEZUELA
Status: offline 		Nikos,

I realy can't see anything wrong with your set up from the picture, one thing you can try is to richen the regulator 1mm or 2mm, but one at a time, that should soften the idle and prevent the back firing.
Does your engine sounds "too metalic" at idle?

Regards

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