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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 4:25 AM   
gio


 

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From: Curacao, WillemstadNO, NETHERLANDS ANTILLES
Status: offline 		I am also building a flying wing, it's not a like the horton.
It will be powerd by a Ram500 and also retractable landing gear.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 7:23 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		this youur own design or left over / spare parts

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 9:44 AM   
DelGatoGrande



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From: ATHENS, , GREECE
Status: offline 		... i think its Horten and not Horton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

looking forward to see the twin p20!

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 10:30 AM   
DraganRi


 

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From: Rijeka, CROATIA (HRVATSKA)
Status: offline 		Horten IX
wing span 4,2 m
2xAMT turbines
video  :      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Mc16zNcVs

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Dragan


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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 11:59 AM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Dragan,

don't you know where is that HO 229 now?
I really want to get in contact with the owner.
Thanks'
Dan

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 12:40 PM   
DraganRi


 

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From: Rijeka, CROATIA (HRVATSKA)
Status: offline 		Dan ,
sorry I don't know.
At the end of posted video is the name of the builder - Erik van der Hoogen , he came from Netherland.Try to find him on Dutch forum

http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/turbine-aangedreven/

The latest model of this great builder :    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qasSsDnqcU

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Dragan


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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 4:30 PM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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From: Washington dc, DC, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks' Dragan.
I believe you have a lot of experience in HO 229.
What is your opinion of adding an autopilot to that nice wing?
I assume this will add more stability on flyght.
why nobody add FPV camera?
what is the maximum payload of this one?
Do you think , can I use this wing for a TV stations to send live full HD images from let's say 50 km?
Thanks'
I will try to contact the owner in Netherlad?
 I also ask Gary (through my friend). I really believ he is very good on this model.
Thanks' again
Dan


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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 4:44 PM   
cactusflyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: dan.ionescu74

Thanks' Dragan.
I believe you have a lot of experience in HO 229.
What is your opinion of adding an autopilot to that nice wing?
I assume this will add more stability on flyght.
why nobody add FPV camera?
what is the maximum payload of this one?
Do you think , can I use this wing for a TV stations to send live full HD images from let's say 50 km?
Thanks'
I will try to contact the owner in Netherlad?
 I also ask Gary (through my friend). I really believ he is very good on this model.
Thanks' again
Dan



Dan, REALLY?........autopilot......FPV....50 km.....payload? Who are you?




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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 4:54 PM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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Status: offline 		Hi !
 I know I am totally paralel with this subject and I assume it was a dumb question but... is just a question...
 I saw a lot of sites where the people say that they are flying up to 150 km with  MQ Reaper 92" up to 140 km, FPV.
Is my question out of discussion?
Ok, my fault...
Thanks'


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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 6:45 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		Your questions are very fishy, when you take in account you have 4 posts, apparently have little to no rc experience, type broken english and are supposedly from washington dc.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 8:16 PM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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From: Washington dc, DC, USA
Status: offline 		My fault !
I didn't mean to upset anybody.
I have 0 experience on RC.
I just like HO 229 model.
Regarding my broken english... I don't know what can I say???
I just wan t to ask you, why that questions are fishy???
As I mentioned it was just dumb questions comming from 0 experience.
Sorry again, I didn't mean to upset anybody, but is good to know the rules here.
Thanks' invertmast.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 8:34 PM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dan.ionescu74

My fault !
I didn't mean to upset anybody.
I have 0 experience on RC.
I just like HO 229 model.
Regarding my broken english... I don't know what can I say???
I just wan t to ask you, why that questions are fishy???
As I mentioned it was just dumb questions comming from 0 experience.
Sorry again, I didn't mean to upset anybody, but is good to know the rules here.
Thanks' invertmast.



Its fishy b/c you are from Washington DC asking about flying a large RC airplane FPV, that could carry a payload and fly a long distance.... Their are lots of issues within the RC community with those questions all asked about the same airplane at the same time. We are all very protective over our hobby and those questions throw up red flags for most of us, even if they are innocent questions.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 9:25 PM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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From: Washington dc, DC, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry again,

 I will stop asking stupid questions that can drive to other situations.
Thanks for telling me about that Invertmast.
Dan

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 9:31 PM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		Those are the kind of questions that make you look like a "Terrorist" wanna be. SO why are you so interested in payload and flying FPV? Where are you from and how long have you been in the hobby? There really are no dumb questions, we are as was said earlier....protective of our hobby. Remember there was a fool sometime ago who attempted to bomb a federal building using a RC Model. Come clean with who you are as just a start......

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 10:35 PM   
dan.ionescu74


 

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From: Washington dc, DC, USA
Status: offline 		HI Ram-bro
Invertmast gave me a pretty good ideea what it looks like.
so...
let's clarify:
I was interested on 1,5 pounds payload, a normal weight video camera not for other purposes. My mistake cause I was pushy...I don't wanna be acussed of something stupid.
As I said, I have 0 experience in this hobby.
My account was created two days ago after I saw on youtube  an wonderful Horten wing.
If  you just  go to youtube you will find how nice is this plane, but also you will find a lot of technical detailes regarding other types of large RC planes. I don't need that planes - www.hobbyking.com...easy
So... I apologize for any red flag, and I know that I dont want to be in the same category wtih the foul that you mentioned.
Once again thank you for stopping me to continue in the wrong direction of questions.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/2/2012 11:26 PM   
gueroaero


 

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Status: offline 		This whole convo still seems a bit...wrong though. 

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 5:43 AM   
elven wizard



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Status: offline 		I'm a rc land type guy. Much respect to you air guys. The Horton Ho 229 is my favorite plane. I think you will enjoy these.

















I personally took this in San diego

















< Message edited by elven wizard -- 9/3/2012 8:30 AM >

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 7:41 PM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		Very good info, elven wiz.

Considering the time and the problems the Horten Bros had to deal with, this plane was amazing. Decades ahead of it's time and developed within a few months. It took Northrop more time to build a non flying copy - with all the materials on hand.
Money was not their problem back then. They had a primitive shop and made the plane mainly out of wood. They did not have a team of scientists and engineers help with the design.
The Junkers engines were not available, holding up the project for a long time.

They previously built gliders, the tailless design had less drag and weight in mind.
With the 229, stealth was a big factor. When it appeared on the enemy's radar, it was too late for them to react. It would still leave a signature when it was getting closer. Of course back in the 40's they didn't have the know how to build a perfect stealth plane.

Like many other designs, this plane came too late, Germany surrendered when this was still under development.
There is no doubt that this would have been a very powerful weapon, along with other new developments.





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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 7:43 PM   
OliverJacob


 

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 8:35 PM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		Correct me if I am wrong but stealth wasnt the design goal. Stealth was a by product of the design. Their main design goal was speed and range and you got that thru less drag......but I maybe wrong

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 9:36 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		Ram,
That was my understanding as well.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/3/2012 11:38 PM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		The paint the used helped to absorb the radar waves in addition to the plane's shape.
Later a much bigger version was planned (the america bomber) and the Messerschmitt designers got involved, they wanted a rudder which the Horten brothers where upset about, mainly because it would reflect more radar waves.




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RE: Horton 229 - 9/4/2012 12:03 AM   
invertmast


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OliverJacob

The paint the used helped to absorb the radar waves in addition to the plane's shape.
Later a much bigger version was planned (the america bomber) and the Messerschmitt designers got involved, they wanted a rudder which the Horten brothers where upset about, mainly because it would reflect more radar waves.





Uhm... the paint they used was the same paint that was used on every other luftwaffe aircraft, matter of fact, there is allot of debate on what the actual RLM colors were b/c different manufacturers had different colors for the same RLM number towards the end of the war due to lack of materials..

Although the HO-229 Did have some stealth abilities (as found out by northrop grumman's full-scale mockup) the original was not solely designed for "stealth". The stealthiness came from the use of wood structure and how the wings skins were done. They used a layer of plywood, then a mixture of saw dust, charcoal and glue, then another layer of ply-wood. The outer wing panels were nearly 16mm Thick (nearly 5/8"). The mixture of "stuff" between the plywood skins is what absorbed the radar waves... but since the full-scale HO-229 never got anywhere near the coast of the UK where the radar stations were, the german's probably weren't completely aware of exactly what they had..

Information sourced from : HO-229 "spirit of Thuringia"

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/4/2012 1:26 AM   
elven wizard



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Status: offline 		thanks OliverJacob
Such an amazing plane. War ended in 1945. Can you imagine the allied forces look on there faces when this was found. This plane was so far ahead of it's time. Still amazing to this day.

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RE: Horton 229 - 9/4/2012 2:20 AM   
OliverJacob


 

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Status: offline 		They were aware of the effects of the charcoal and sawdust mixture. You are right, not really the paint was the secret.
And they never got anywhere with it because the war ended before it was ready. But it was very close.
By the time they build this, the Horten brothers had all the support they could get, but supplies were low and
time was short.
The 229 could outperform any other plane at that time.
They were not fully aware of what they had, since they could not fully develop it.
But they knew about it's flight capabilities after the first tests.
The RLM did support the Hortens, but time and material was what they needed.

I believe they knew the plane's shape would leave a very low signature on the radar screen. But that is only my opinion, I can not prove it.

As a pilot, I am curious how the plane flew, flying wings are problematic, without a rudder they must have been
rather instable and hard to control.


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