RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin.

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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pattern Flying >> RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 9:56 PM

KeithB

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2Sunny,

The MOST important thing for Sportsman through Advanced (and even many of us Masters pilots) is LOTS AND LOTS of stick time. So, how do you accomplish this? The answer for me is very clear, 2-cycle glow (OS 1.60 or OS 1.40RX). With these setups you will fly and fly and fly with very little down time. When flying 2-cycle glow it's not unheard of to fly for 17 to 20 minutes on one flight (that's a lot of times through the Sportsman through Advanced sequences). Three flights gives you 45 min -1 hr in the air. To get the same on electric you need 6 batteries (or charge between flights) AND you have to get on the flight line six times rather than three.

That being said, I fly electric, but flight time is my biggest complaint. I believe that my quick progress in the earlier classes was due to a lot of stick time and if I had it to do over again I'd go back to 2-cycle until I became proficient in the basics.

FWIW,
Keith B

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 10:06 PM

JCINTEXAS

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The Best of Both Worlds
The best compromise idea appeared earlier in this discussion.
Carry a little flask of glow fuel and dab a couble of drops under your nose before each flight.
Then go ahead and fly electric.
JC

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 10:08 PM

Silent-AV8R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamingTree1027

I will get the measuring stick...boys put em on the table.

Sorry, that was not my intention. I was trying to demonstrate that I am not strictly a electric plane guy and that my experience was greater than just electric planes since that seemed to be the idea that some people had.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 10:10 PM

Taurus Flyer

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KeithB,,

Best advice untill now!
Hope 2Sunny will pick it up between all the "commercials"

Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 10:25 PM

Taurus Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCBruski65

Now I see why the people in the classic pattern forums get tired of him.

Tim

Do you see Tim, this was the reason.
2Sunny does need an advice to buy ONE set-up.

Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/2/2009 11:41 PM

HughBrown

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I fly a lot of electrics myself and I am not sure that anyone has said this or not. Unlike a glow or gas plane that when you crash the motor stops, an electric can bite you even after a crash. Just make sure the first thing you do when you approach a crashed electric is to disconnect the battery! Other than that I like all of mine. I still like the sound of a Saito out front but as others have said my wife doesn't mind the electrics in the house.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 12:23 AM

Taurus Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HughBrown

I fly a lot of electrics myself and I am not sure that anyone has said this or not. Unlike a glow or gas plane that when you crash the motor stops, an electric can bite you even after a crash. Just make sure the first thing you do when you approach a crashed electric is to disconnect the battery! Other than that I like all of mine. I still like the sound of a Saito out front but as others have said my wife doesn't mind the electrics in the house.

Hugh , do you mind if I respond?
This is good for point 4

4) Instant on; instant off.

But please hurry, take my truck.

Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 12:35 AM

Skinny Bob

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I think it depends a lot on location, if you are a park flyer only, with limited space, then by all means electric. I like scale, and you can't beat the sound of a 4-stroke engine. If I could afford it I would have radial 4-stroke engines only. I don't think there are any full size electric airplanes!.

Just my two cents

Skinny Bob

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 12:45 AM

Taurus Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skinny Bob

I think it depends a lot on location, if you are a park flyer only, with limited space, then by all means electric. I like scale, and you can't beat the sound of a 4-stroke engine. If I could afford it I would have radial 4-stroke engines only. I don't think there are any full size electric airplanes!.

Just my two cents

Skinny Bob

Skinny Bop,

We are talking about pattern flying , so a lot of power in a nearly full size electric airplane,
(btw what is full size in this discussion? The investment is full size and NOT your two cents!).

Cees

< Message edited by Taurus Flyer -- 7/3/2009 1:01 AM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 1:09 AM

Taurus Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HughBrown

I fly a lot of electrics myself and I am not sure that anyone has said this or not. Unlike a glow or gas plane that when you crash the motor stops, an electric can bite you even after a crash. Just make sure the first thing you do when you approach a crashed electric is to disconnect the battery! Other than that I like all of mine. I still like the sound of a Saito out front but as others have said my wife doesn't mind the electrics in the house.

Hugh, I did forget!

Show your wife the picture of that mobile home, I think she will say:"You better try to pull that connector of the glowplug in the middel of no-where"

Point 7

7) No pulling glow plugs from a 7000 RPM motor.

Cees

< Message edited by Taurus Flyer -- 7/3/2009 1:10 AM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 1:54 AM

ctripodi

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Hi,

I believe that both have their pros and cons. With glow engines, you need to learn how to break them in, tune their idle, find the right prop and spinner set up. It's not that hard once you learn how to. I think you get more raw horsepower out if a wet engine that an electric. Nowadays they are more efficient, lighter and powerful. With electrics, it's another learning curve. Find the right size motor for your plane, watts per pound, minutes per watts, type of cells, lipo vs. nickel metal, the right ESC amp rating. I own both electric and glow and personally have found that electrics are more money than glow. if you are going to fly for several hours at the field then be prepared to have several battery packs, plus a DC charger. I hate waiting for the batteries to charge. With glow, you just pump, place the driver and go. Lipo battery packs are not cheap, especially name brands. I don't think electrics are safer than glow either. If the plane crashes, you need to check that the pack hasn't been damaged. You need to keep an eye on them at home while charging and take precautionary measures on lipos (charge in a safe area, in a metal container or ceramic bag). I overextend my battery time onece and it caused my receiver to lose power and control, therefore crashing my plane. Luckliy it was a park flyer. With glow planes, you have two power sources; your engine and your receiver battery pack. With electrics it's one central power source. Are lipos also environmental friendly? People complain about the noise and pollution that glow planes make. Then what happens with the lipo packs discarded in the trash? Are they recycled or biodegradable? Do they end up in landfills? Think about it. You can recycle a metal glow engine. for scrap metal. I am just thinking this a technology trend and it will plateau over time. Who knows, they might even come up with an electric-glow hybrid some day! In my opinion, I prefer glow all the way baby.

Saludos a todos = Greetings to all

Your friendly translator

Carlos T.

Fly it like it's hot!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 2:31 AM

1bwana1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skinny Bob

I think it depends a lot on location, if you are a park flyer only, with limited space, then by all means electric. I like scale, and you can't beat the sound of a 4-stroke engine. If I could afford it I would have radial 4-stroke engines only. I don't think there are any full size electric airplanes!.

Just my two cents

Skinny Bob

There is at least one full sized electric powered airplane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Pb_psj1A8

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 2:39 AM

nitrocomplex1776

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I am a user of both and like each but right now money is tight so i am only electric since i can reuse the battery pack over and over and can only use that tank of fuel once.

Electric for plain, simple, fast, easy fun, short pass the time runs.

Nitro for fast, power, and the sound and the super long run times.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 2:59 AM

tIANci

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I cannot wait till the EP motors/esc from China are built to European standards. As it is batteries are already cheap and reliable. That will make it even easier to move into EP.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 3:25 AM

Nitro-Tom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitrocomplex1776

I am a user of both and like each but right now money is tight so i am only electric since i can reuse the battery pack over and over and can only use that tank of fuel once.

Electric for plain, simple, fast, easy fun, short pass the time runs.

Nitro for fast, power, and the sound and the super long run times.

For ME, I tried Electric, and the hassel of the cheap ESC failures, cost of good packs, cheap batteries with Low C ratinging, etc.....plus the concern that the Electric stuff just does not last as long as the Glow equivlent puts me in the GLOW catagory. Puff packs, Failed ESC's, Failed BEC cost me a plane (Bummer) and so on......the shorter flights also did it for me......

How many folks you know with the old O/S .46 or O/S .91 Four stroke that is years old, with 100's and 100's of flights?

I hate the mess, and the smell is not that great, but I am back to 100% GLOW.....I could handel a "Real Electric" such as a BVM EDF.....but who has $999 to pay for a 12S pack, and you need 3 of them? Then you need 2 chargers for another $600 and the stuff cost a premium......the real 110A ESC's and the larger better motors........

No doubt guys are enjoying the many benifits of Electric with no real bummer that I can see except shorter flight times.......instant power, etc make Electric hard core, but my take is it is still very expensive to go Electric "Top of the line" and cost of Nitro is back to $14/Gal retail for me, and I buy bulk to get it for less........

I am back to 100% glow and will go back to Electric when I can afford a BVM EDF jet......

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 4:53 AM

Jim Grunt

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Who cares. Why would you want this is supposed to be fun.Jim

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 7:50 AM

Rendegade

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This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 8:45 AM

tIANci

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Rendegade ... not really a disaster, no one is fighting or cussing ... hehehehee ... we are having fun. We all agree to disagree and some will be converted!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 9:20 AM

Rendegade

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Ok, if you say so. Having said that, while I'm here I might as well chime in.

I've flown glow for the best part of 20 years. I like it, it's smells right, it looks right and it sounds right. Now I've been flying pattern for some time, and I'm one of the few pilots to acutally go gas, I.e. Petrol, and while I'm down on power, it's definetely better than glow, as it's cheaper to run, no glow driver is needed, and there's less mess, but you still have the noise, and they're incredibly reliable. It is however down on power and it can be hard to make weight with the heavier build of the engines (which I find a little bit conservative engineering wise) and added battery back and IC modules. That said, the choice between glow and electric for me is obvious provided we disregard one thing, cost.

How many times have you had gotten flustered at the beginning of a round when you're 1.40 doesn't fire straight away? How often have you had a lean run or a dead stick with your glow engines, or as the guys here say, broken a chin cowl from a nasty backfire? I'm not for a second saying that electics are trouble free, but certainly the time spent messing around is somewhat reduced, and the longevity of the airframe is increased. Sure it's easy to have a dead stick with an electric, gearboxes stipping, ESC's frying or batteries going the way or prometheus, but it's less prevalent, at least in my experiences with electrics. If I were to be looking at an F3A electric setup, I'd follow my previous experiences of a geared inrunner. Why? The noise of the geartrain is a good indicator of prop speed, as opposed to your throttle stick position.

If we do consider cost, as stated SOOO many times the big killer for electrics in the f3a sizes is the setup costs. For that reason I think glow has a place and I'll probably fly glow until I get sponsored to fly electric. It's just too expensive for me at the moment.

My final parting shot is this, IF we could eke out a little more power to weight with the gas engines, I think they'd be more popular, and we're nearly there, but until that happens, I think glow will stay popular with the majority of budget minded pattern flyers, and electric will remain popular with those who can afford it.

And like silent av8r says, pick your poison and go fly.

< Message edited by Rendegade -- 7/3/2009 9:23 AM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 10:10 AM

Taurus Flyer

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Rendegade, why?

quote:

This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.

Because after that,you write your first post in the thread we can use!!
I did delete all about the gassers, see the subject

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Ok, if you say so. Having said that, while I'm here I might as well chime in.

Message shortened by Taurus Flyer

If we do consider cost, as stated SOOO many times the big killer for electrics in the f3a sizes is the setup costs. For that reason I think glow has a place and I'll probably fly glow until I get sponsored to fly electric. It's just too expensive for me at the moment.

What I left is the main reason.
When you have the sponsoring to fly electric, we will met again.
You are good for point 11

11) Zippy Rhino packs or TrueRC packs are now REALLY cheap.

We want to give the thread starter the right advice to buy ONE set-up.

Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 12:03 PM

Stickbuilder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1bwana1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skinny Bob

I think it depends a lot on location, if you are a park flyer only, with limited space, then by all means electric. I like scale, and you can't beat the sound of a 4-stroke engine. If I could afford it I would have radial 4-stroke engines only. I don't think there are any full size electric airplanes!.

Just my two cents

Skinny Bob

There is at least one full sized electric powered airplane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Pb_psj1A8

They showed a clip of a Sonnex taxiing, and they showed a clip of one in the hangar, but they didn't show any of the plane in flight. What is the range of this POS? How minutes of flight time?

Bill, AMA 4720

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 12:10 PM

Rendegade

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Ok, lets try that again, this time I hope I won't be taken out of context.

I find it hard to justify the expense for my level of competition, that's not to say that if I had the wherewithal that situation wouldn't change. It most certainly would. As I said before, for those who operate either in competitive circles or not, but are constrained on budget, glow appears to be a more viable solution.

Waxing lyrical about an enya 60 is not neccessarily productive when considering the 2m F3A rules, as this is comparing apples to tow trucks. In aircraft up to .60 size I would most certainly consider electric to be worthwhile and probably in the long run cheaper and more maitenance free than a comparable glow aircraft, and the prices for motors, packs and esc's for this size aren't really expensive. As a matter of fact it's probably line ball with a good YS 63 these days.

My comment on Petrol engines was to merely to show that there is an alternative, but it's not quite perfect, but an alternative nonetheless.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 1:19 PM

thomasaurus

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I didn't go through every post, but in all the ones I did read, no one mentioned that airplanes are supposed to make NOISE, not hum.
Just my 2 cents.

GO GLOW!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 2:18 PM

GerKonig

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[
They showed a clip of a Sonnex taxiing, and they showed a clip of one in the hangar, but they didn't show any of the plane in flight. What is the range of this POS? How minutes of flight time?

Bill, AMA 4720
[/quote]

You do not have sound on your computer? I saw the cli, they said one hour. I saw the plane at Sun and fun last year. My take is that this is the firt proof of concept of a practical electric powered airplane, and it flew one hour. I wonder how long the first proof of concept gas powered plane flew? Seconds, minutes?

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 3:25 PM

Silent-AV8R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

They showed a clip of a Sonnex taxiing, and they showed a clip of one in the hangar, but they didn't show any of the plane in flight. What is the range of this POS? How minutes of flight time?

Bill, AMA 4720

Maybe these will meet with you approval. I'd say that neither one meets the POS criteria:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwyyQ1BckK0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avweb.com%2Favwebflash%2Fexclusivevids%2FExclusiveVideo_YuneecE430_ElectricAirplane_FirstFlight_200617-1.html&feature=player_embedded

http://www.skyspark.eu/web/eng/index.php

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