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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 4:46 PM   
jessiej



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Status: offline 		Electric is clearly to glow for model railroad applications.

jess

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 5:40 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Ok, lets try that again, this time I hope I won't be taken out of context.

I find it hard to justify the expense for my level of competition, that's not to say that if I had the wherewithal that situation wouldn't change. It most certainly would. As I said before, for those who operate either in competitive circles or not, but are constrained on budget, glow appears to be a more viable solution.


Waxing lyrical about an enya 60 is not neccessarily productive when considering the 2m F3A rules, as this is comparing apples to tow trucks. In aircraft up to .60 size I would most certainly consider electric to be worthwhile and probably in the long run cheaper and more maitenance free than a comparable glow aircraft, and the prices for motors, packs and esc's for this size aren't really expensive. As a matter of fact it's probably line ball with a good YS 63 these days.

My comment on Petrol engines was to merely to show that there is an alternative, but it's not quite perfect, but an alternative nonetheless.


Rendegade,

When you next time post in a thread, first read the posts. (especially48)
I did post about my ENYA 60 4C in post 10 to show I know about glowplug engines and a long time before it was known the thread was about F3A.
This is the quote of post 48.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ual767


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

ual767


Why do some of you do have the messages in your posts?
''US sales for YGE controllers''

Let me tell you that I do not know what YGE controller are? Fule pressure controllers?

Is that promotion or not?


Cees


Actually that is being honest so that anyone who reads my posts can weigh my comments appropriately.

I know the starter of this thread and he is a new F3A flyer and truly wanted to know if he was missing out on something by flying electrics. Simple premise and desire for pros and cons.

Another thread becoming devoid of useful information......





So your post:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.


Is nonsense, because you take the situation out of context yourself.
Maybe it is interesting for you to find out why you are doing this? I do not ask for it!


Cees



< Message edited by Taurus Flyer -- 7/3/2009 5:49 PM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 6:30 PM   
GerKonig


 

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Status: offline 		To those that need noise. Perhaps you have a goos sound system connected to your computer. If so turn it up and go to:

http://www.aviationshoppe.com/Sounds1.html

The flyby and starting sound (pure music) of a P-51, and a Corsair are priceless.

Now as far as your powerplants.... That is not airplane noise... My 1/4 scale gassers sound like fast moving weedwackers (I love them), but the sound is not airplane-like unless youi never heard an airplane. To the best of my knowledge only one model powerplant sounds kinda-like a real airplane powerplant, the 4 stroke radials that cosrt 3K and up:-)


Gerry


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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 10:21 PM   
antiquefer


 

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Status: online 		The main advantage to electric planes I hear at my field is no need for cleanup. So much so that now some of them wear shirts that read "Electric flyers don't wipe".

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 10:50 PM   
Gooseman240


 

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Status: offline 		Wow, got me thinking why do retailers offer lipo-sacks...WOW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw

Glow/gas for me any day!!

Not bashing electrics, but think of all the harmful chemicals compared to glow you would be breathing if your battery took a turn for the worst. I would say way more cancer causing agents in a lipo fire.

On the up side, nothing compares to a colorful crash to a P-51 with a lipo fire

I like that maintenance required to keep your plane pristine (spot problems sooner, loose screws, stress fractures I guess for some peeps), and the sound of pwr when the plane flies by on a high speed pass. Like a biker riding a Harley.



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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 10:53 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: antiquefer

The main advantage to electric planes I hear at my field is no need for cleanup. So much so that now some of them wear shirts that read ''Electric flyers don't wipe''.


fer,


Look at the other thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8903931/tm.htm

Venus II, OS 120AX, Perry pump, Help! Please!

A long time no reactions!
Look at my hands in the picture, castor oil, what will I do? Help?

It is clear to me you USA members, for a long time, are throwing away your own history and know-how of glow engines (VECO, K & B) and planes (Taurus) and I even read about Chinese equipment in this thread.
For that reason you are "fer" for me!!


Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/3/2009 11:33 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Oké gents,

quote:

ORIGINAL: lodomjr

Jim if anything the engine should be extremely rich with the pump in place. I know when I installed one on my OS 160 and the pump set to factory settings the engine was very rich. The carb on the two engines are almost the same and I believe they are, and my 160 ran great. Get the engine running again and set the high end first. Then start lowering the throttle slowly to find the transition point and see if the engine leans out or starts running rich when the carb is running on the low end needle. You may be able to find your problem there and can adjust for it. Also leave the glow driver on it until you get it close and then remove the driver and you may have to do a little fine tuning. I hope this helps.

Larry



Larry is helping, thanks.
I only did fly Webra Speed with a Perry pump!
BTW, you USA members, you did fly to the moon so I have a question.
Did anybody of you measured the pressure of the perry pump?
I always have a pressure transmitter with me to adjust the engines, see green circle.


Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 12:16 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.


Rendegate,

Do you see again that you are wrong, because,

When others may use a complete truck to solve there electrical propulsion problems (Silent AV8R) why cannot I have my equipment?
Your problem is only, you can only buy the stuff that is promoted, not what you need.
That is the reason why you want to be sponsored, but I tell you, that is an utopy.

I already did love my hobby in 1968, see that picture, and simple did not stop learning, and that is the problem with the people with that shirt: "Electric flyers don't wipe".

They reach the end of the road a short time after they started!!

Cees



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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 12:19 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Gooseman, why?


On the up side, nothing compares to a colorful crash to a P-51 with a lipo fire


Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 1:12 AM   
GerKonig


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gooseman240

Wow, got me thinking why do retailers offer lipo-sacks...WOW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw

Glow/gas for me any day!!

Not bashing electrics, but think of all the harmful chemicals compared to glow you would be breathing if your battery took a turn for the worst. I would say way more cancer causing agents in a lipo fire.

On the up side, nothing compares to a colorful crash to a P-51 with a lipo fire

I like that maintenance required to keep your plane pristine (spot problems sooner, loose screws, stress fractures I guess for some peeps), and the sound of pwr when the plane flies by on a high speed pass. Like a biker riding a Harley.





Most people do not think that the battery they place right next to their ear is a lipo (used in cellphones), and so is most likely what powers your laptop computer (if it is a recent one).

They have a great record fo safety (in the most part), nothing is perfect.

Gerry


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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 1:22 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Gerry,

Did you hear about that "unlimited pattern flyer"".
Drilling hole in a bleed air carburator because he didn't know anything about that stuff.
That's the problem! Forgetting! Not knowing!
If you want I show you the other side.

Cees



< Message edited by Taurus Flyer -- 7/4/2009 1:23 AM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 1:24 AM   
gaRCfield


 

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Status: offline 		I know this sounds kind of lame, but it is true:

Cleaning up the glow residue off your plane really forces you to closely examine every nook and cranny of your airplane. I have found things on more than one occasion that needed attention, and had I not been wiping down my plane they would have gone unattended.

Disassembling a plane takes some time. Spraying it with cleaner and giving it a quick wipe does not add that much extra time.

Ok this is going to sound even more lame, but I actually feel a connection with my plane when I"m taking it apart and cleaning it.

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Venus II/YS FZ110s; Venus 40/OS 55AX; 69"Yak/OS 120AX; Airtronics RDS-8000

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 1:34 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

I know this sounds kind of lame, but it is true:

Cleaning up the glow residue off your plane really forces you to closely examine every nook and cranny of your airplane. I have found things on more than one occasion that needed attention, and had I not been wiping down my plane they would have gone unattended.

Disassembling a plane takes some time. Spraying it with cleaner and giving it a quick wipe does not add that much extra time.

Ok this is going to sound even more lame, but I actually feel a connection with my plane when I''m taking it apart and cleaning it.



No, gaRCfield, read, my post 21 page 1!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

AAbdu and others,

Second point of my post 13 I read: No clean up!

You better do.

After a day of flying I have to remove the grass of the LE of the wing (lawn mower), clean the wheels etc.
For that I always clean the whole plane with soap and check for “cracks”, 10 minutes work!

During this activity I discover the details to repair and keep the quality of the plane “on level”.
I also check frequent the radio battery’s!!

Picture, my Taurus after overhauling these weeks after a period of nearly 400 flights during the last 5 years.
The airframe of the plane doesn’t have to be the problem with the right construction, engine power level and maintenance.
The only thing you need is a little bit of luck on wrong moments.

Cees



We axactly do the same and for that (me and my brother) do fly this plane for near than 30 years, no pattern, but oké
4,5 m (15 ft?) glider ASK18, picture of 2009 in the mountains in Germany.

gaRCfield, you really like your hobby, just as I do.



Cees


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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 5:47 AM   
apereira


 

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Status: offline 		Electric or gas and glow, I have several models of each, they are all great, electrics is in a new era, but no matter what , it needs some attention and common sense, I love the simplicity of my electrics, but hate the charging wait, but I don't like to clean up the glow mess, specially from my YS engines running at 23% oil, but I love the smoke trail, and my DA 100 is another swiss watch.

So to me is simply a matter of personal preference, they all require knowledge of what you are doing, cell phones and laptops also use lipos, and they don't explode, but lack of basic knowledge can cause anything.

There is really no answer to what is better, is just what any given person's preferences are.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 9:54 AM   
Steve Landron



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Status: offline 		I fly both electric and glo, but time permitting I love my glo engines. Lately it's been tough getting the time together to take out my glo planes. With glo I enjoy long stable flights and clean-up has never been a problem. As far as aircraft longevity with glo I still have my original trainer (Eagle 63) I originally built in 1983. Still ready to go. Like anything if you take care of it it will last.

Electrics are nice and my choice when I can't get to the field, (back yard flying) But at the field or when I'm doing some serious flying I like my Nitro..



Steve

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 9:56 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Rendegate,

(Gents, you better all skip this post, it is only for Rendegate.)
It isn't off topic becasue it is my last answer on the first post of Rendegate.
And I still wait for a decent response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.



Why did you write this post Rendegate, because it is not the first time?
To show you I tell no nonsense I did look in your own posts to find an example you do not understand the glow engine yourself!


Read, a question of you in , “Glowengines”. RCUniverse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

GRRR to Great planes on this one...


I've recently bought a Venus 40 and I've jammed an enya 50 (soon to have a 60 so i can go silly) but the problem is the tank position...They've sent the tank up so that it's in line with the crank, and it's an inverted motor.

Stupid stupid stupid.

I'm now stuck with a virtually unmanagable engine because the tank's too high.

I' can't lower it becuase the distance between the firewall and the mounts for the wing dowels is 100mm (4'') and the tank is about 5'' all up...

What do I do? This is a real pain in the backside ( or ''Date'' as downunder and i know it as)Will a header tank fix it? Do I need to make my own custom tank???This makes a nice aeroplane frightening to fly cos it dead sticks and changes needle setting something shocking as the tank drains..


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_654104/anchors_654111/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#654111



Downunder-RCU Post 6, later in the thread did give you nearly the right answer and what was your answer?
Here read again, your own post:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Q-ball, the biggest problem, as downunder knows, is the changing head and siphon effect of having to high a tank position..

It just pisses out of carbie if it's open just a crack.

Need to investigate this uniflow tank stuff downuder, could be a winner or it could cover my model in raw fuel!

When in doubt, i'll just fit a pacifier to it!

BTW O.S. 61 sf, grrrrrrowl!



Rendegate, Downunder-RCU did give you nearly the right solution that already was also used in the Smog Hog by Howard Bonner and others.
It is based on the theory of Evangelista Torricelli and so “As old as the way to Rome”.

See also my more detailed explanation in my own thread:
Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7950207/anchors_8559982/mpage_15/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8559982

Rendegade,
When you do no know enough about the glow engines and think you are the specialist yourself, you better go fly electric and do not ask!
When I write my posts you normally will not understand, too complicated.
I will be happy you never again write these kind of posts

BTW, why all these? Because it wasn’t the first time he did!
Succes for looking fo a sponsor.


Cees


In the Land of the Blind mister One Eye thinks he is the King, we still have both! Evangelista and me.


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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 10:58 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		apereira,

You are right when write:
"There is really no answer to what is better, is just what any given person's preferences are. "

I only look to the advice that is given to young modelers and show the other side..
I even did build chergers for them, because there are deadsticks with glow propulsed airplanes because of "not knowing enough " about the battery's.

Keep it simple! Whatever you use for propulsion and radio.
On the moment you need sponsoring you are on the wrong way and cannot give advice anymore domed.

I myself use in all my planes 4,8 V, analog servo's. Always one servo for ailerons.
The 4,5 m ASK 18 I did show in other posts did fly in the past with one aileron, one airbrake, one elevator, one rudder and 1 servo for the tow!
All analog servo's and 28 years ago. We did tow the plane nearly in the clouds, did fly from one to the other!
Battery capacity: 4,8 Volt 1,2 Ah.

Do not let be your battery a BADtery.


Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 1:50 PM   
2Sunny


 

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ORIGINAL: KeithB

2Sunny,

The MOST important thing for Sportsman through Advanced is LOTS AND LOTS of stick time. . . When flying 2-cycle glow it's not unheard of to fly for 17 to 20 minutes on one flight . . . Three flights gives you 45 min -1 hr in the air.

Keith B




Keith,


Thanks Dude! That is food for serious thought!



Joe

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 4:01 PM   
Ryan Smith


 

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Status: online 		That actually is the best advice I've heard in this thread, Keith.

Thinking back, I flew an OS 1.40 from Sportsman through Advanced, and indeed I got a lot of flying time in.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 4:12 PM   
Nitro-Tom



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ORIGINAL: Nitro-Tom


[For ME, I tried Electric, and the hassel of the cheap ESC failures, cost of good packs, cheap batteries with Low C ratinging, etc.....plus the concern that the Electric stuff just does not last as long as the Glow equivlent puts me in the GLOW catagory. Puff packs, Failed ESC's, Failed BEC cost me a plane (Bummer) and so on......the shorter flights also did it for me......

How many folks you know with the old O/S .46 or O/S .91 Four stroke that is years old, with 100's and 100's of flights?



No one has weighted in on the point of the ESC, BEC, and motors themselves lasting as long as good glow stuff?

Many hobby store reps have told me the Electric stuff just does not last as long....and let's also touch base on "Crash Survival"......I have dug a O/S .46 in so deep I needed a small shovel to get it out. Clean it up and it still runs.......even a slight bend in an Electric motors shaft and it is done!

And you really can't fix it as well (Spare parts from MFG, etc) as we can these glow engines.......

Again, for me I am 100% Glow......more stick time is the singel best reason.......my nephew and I race R/c cars.......we can Pit really fast......even WITHOUT pitting fast I can fly about 50 Minutes of a 60 Minute hour.......how many Lipo ($$$) packs do you need to do that? Not to mention how long will that motor and ESC last using it like that, little cooling between flights......

I need one $14 gallon of fuel and a pump.......

Just my 2 cents.....

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 6:38 PM   
Sentry4


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I work on real airplanes and let me tell you something. Real airplanes are loud, dirty, and require cleaning and adjustment, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Even the pretiest real airplane you ever saw is really a dirty pig that has been wiped off! I see the benifit of having a toy that is quiet and doesn't make a mess, heck I kind of want one for my back yard. But it is a silly toy to me if it doesn't make noise and mess. If I want a RC toy I will go to wall mart and buy one. I know that even a four engine 20 foot wingspan monster is still really a toy, but it sure doesn't look like one or sound like one. Next time your at an airport, look real close at the plane if you can, and the people working on them. They all have ear muffs, they are all dirty. Glow / Gas / Turbine = real airplane! Plus it's cheaper!!! Holy cow go and buy any plane you want twice. Now go and outfit them both so that they have realatively the same power output, one with glow setup, and one with EP. 2 cycle glow wins the price war almost every time unless the airplane you picked was real small. Glow / Gas / Turbine = real airplane!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 7:14 PM   
jessiej



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Status: offline 		It occurs to me that those who view cleaning a model with such fear and loathing must be limited in their additional hobbies. Those of us who work on old cars or motorcycles think of the oiliest of glow engines as pretty sanitary. I won't even mention the mess faced by we who hunt and fish when it is time to dress a deer or a nice catch if fish.

jess

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 7:32 PM   
Taurus Flyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Sunny

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithB

2Sunny,

The MOST important thing for Sportsman through Advanced is LOTS AND LOTS of stick time. . . When flying 2-cycle glow it's not unheard of to fly for 17 to 20 minutes on one flight . . . Three flights gives you 45 min -1 hr in the air.

Keith B




Keith,


Thanks Dude! That is food for serious thought!



Joe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

KeithB,,

Best advice untill now!
Hope 2Sunny will pick it up between all the ''commercials''


Cees



Oké Joe, succes with Pattern!

Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 7:52 PM   
anuthabubba


 

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Joined: 11/9/2007
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Transylvania, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah.

The argument of the need to clean your glow powered plane after flying being a big impediment to enjoying it is a pretty weak one. Then there is the idea of how 'green' electrics are. What about the processes/chemicals involved in making and disposing of the batteries/motors/wiring, generating the power to charge them and having to use fireproof boxes?

Terry in LP

< Message edited by anuthabubba -- 7/4/2009 8:00 PM >

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(in reply to jessiej)
       Post #: 124

RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 8:40 PM   
Scott Smith



Posts: 300
Score: 100
Joined: 10/29/2002
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Agawam, MA, USA
Status: online

Sounds like electric needs some support...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nitro-Tom
Not to mention how long will that motor and ESC last using it like that, little cooling between flights......


505 flights on a Prestige/A60-20S/HV85 and still going strong, original servos to boot. The only thing I've had to replace are the wheels. Can't do that with glow!

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(in reply to Nitro-Tom)
       Post #: 125

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