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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/4/2009 9:32 PM   
David Kyjovsky


 

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Status: offline 		Guys please remember that this is pattern forum. I understand pattern to be a category where people compete flying precision maneuvres and are being judged in the process. Any mention of 40 or 60 class glow motor in fact does not belong here.

Judging pros and cons of electric vs glow means comparing competitive pattern setups - 110 to 170 or 200 sized engines and 2 to 3 kW electric motors and their use in pattern training and competitons.



< Message edited by David Kyjovsky -- 7/4/2009 9:44 PM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/5/2009 2:53 AM   
2Sunny


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Kyjovsky

Guys please remember that this is pattern forum. I understand pattern to be a category where people compete flying precision maneuvres and are being judged in the process. Any mention of 40 or 60 class glow motor in fact does not belong here.



Hi David!

Thanks for joining the discussion, but even though you live in the most beautiful city in the world and have the most beautiful women on the face of the Earth, I still must disagree. I entered Pattern flying at the Sportsman level with an Angel S 50e, and I believe others have competed at Intermediate with the same plane so although most Pattern discussion should center around larger motors, I believe there is room for discussion of the smaller motors as well. But as always thats just an opinion, and I am happy you added yours


Joe

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/5/2009 7:59 AM   
tIANci



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Ok, lets try that again, this time I hope I won't be taken out of context.

I find it hard to justify the expense for my level of competition, that's not to say that if I had the wherewithal that situation wouldn't change. It most certainly would. As I said before, for those who operate either in competitive circles or not, but are constrained on budget, glow appears to be a more viable solution.


Can't argue with that ... a 90 sized glow engine will be much cheaper to set up than EP if its from scratch and money is an issue.

David ... the Angel S50 took on 2x2 planes in an Australia competition, it came in 2nd ... a great pilot for sure too but nonetheless was a mere 1,200W set up only in a 50 size category.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/5/2009 12:39 PM   
harikeshpk


 

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Status: offline 		well well .... we should discuss this now... as a few years from now there will only be electrics flying.. wanna discuss FM&PCM Vs 2.4 Ghz again ?

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 2:23 AM   
Rendegade



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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 2:40 AM   
Rendegade



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Rendegate,

(Gents, you better all skip this post, it is only for Rendegate.)
It isn't off topic becasue it is my last answer on the first post of Rendegate.
And I still wait for a decent response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

This thread has turned into a total disaster.

Thanks cees once again for being a self righteous troll.



Why did you write this post Rendegate, because it is not the first time?
To show you I tell no nonsense I did look in your own posts to find an example you do not understand the glow engine yourself!


Read, a question of you in , “Glowengines”. RCUniverse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

GRRR to Great planes on this one...


I've recently bought a Venus 40 and I've jammed an enya 50 (soon to have a 60 so i can go silly) but the problem is the tank position...They've sent the tank up so that it's in line with the crank, and it's an inverted motor.

Stupid stupid stupid.

I'm now stuck with a virtually unmanagable engine because the tank's too high.

I' can't lower it becuase the distance between the firewall and the mounts for the wing dowels is 100mm (4'') and the tank is about 5'' all up...

What do I do? This is a real pain in the backside ( or ''Date'' as downunder and i know it as)Will a header tank fix it? Do I need to make my own custom tank???This makes a nice aeroplane frightening to fly cos it dead sticks and changes needle setting something shocking as the tank drains..


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_654104/anchors_654111/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#654111



Downunder-RCU Post 6, later in the thread did give you nearly the right answer and what was your answer?
Here read again, your own post:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Q-ball, the biggest problem, as downunder knows, is the changing head and siphon effect of having to high a tank position..

It just pisses out of carbie if it's open just a crack.

Need to investigate this uniflow tank stuff downuder, could be a winner or it could cover my model in raw fuel!

When in doubt, i'll just fit a pacifier to it!

BTW O.S. 61 sf, grrrrrrowl!



Rendegate, Downunder-RCU did give you nearly the right solution that already was also used in the Smog Hog by Howard Bonner and others.
It is based on the theory of Evangelista Torricelli and so “As old as the way to Rome”.

See also my more detailed explanation in my own thread:
Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7950207/anchors_8559982/mpage_15/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8559982

Rendegade,
When you do no know enough about the glow engines and think you are the specialist yourself, you better go fly electric and do not ask!
When I write my posts you normally will not understand, too complicated.
I will be happy you never again write these kind of posts

BTW, why all these? Because it wasn’t the first time he did!
Succes for looking fo a sponsor.


Cees


In the Land of the Blind mister One Eye thinks he is the King, we still have both! Evangelista and me.


Ok. I've bit my tongue for a while on this as I know even arguing the point is a waste of time. You're not going to back down from your point of view, and aren't willing to concede one point with anyone on this forum that you disagree with. It's not a discussion, it's a tirade. Be that as it may, you've taken a swipe at me, so I feel the need to justify my position.

Firstly The comments I made about the Venus, if you had read it correctly was that this area for the tank to sit in the aircraft made for something that was a terrible situation. The fuel tank tray placed the tank the top of the tank ( I was using a hayes tank which has the vent at the very top ) some 50mm from the spray bar of the carb. I'm sure than there's not one person on the forums who would disagree with me that this is not a good setup, on a muffler pressure system. I fail to see how you could misconstrue my complaint about the tank height (which I later modified with great difficulty, it required major modifications to the forward part of the aircraft, but I suppose that's the price I pay for an ARF) as me not having knowledge of glow engines. The comments that I made to downunder were a discussion on how to fix the issue, and the pacifier comment was a joke. I undertand that the language barrier may proclude you from getting the punchline. Finally I will say that I don't appreciate you dragging up posts that I feel are in no way beneficial to the thread, and can only be taken as a feeble attempt to prove a point, which to me is still unclear.

As for waiting for a response on the other comments, You've proven to me that you'll not discuss anything even remotely critical of glow engines without being recalcitrant and continue to bash all of the people who have anything to say about electrics, so I'm not going to enter into this discussion any further.




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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 3:18 AM   
Taurus Flyer



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Status: offline 		Rendegade,

One question?
Did you ever give a little baby a bottle of milk?

Ask me if you want to know because in these situations I was never believed before.
Success with searching a sponsor.


Cees

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 3:20 AM   
nedim



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Status: offline 		Ok, back to the glow vs. electric discussion.

It seems to me, it is always the glow guys who are against electric. There exist almost no electric guy (with a few exception) who is not happy with flying electric and went back to glow. Mostly, (again it is my opinion) glow pattern guys are trying to find something to dislike in electric in order to stay in flying glow.

I am flying pattern for 30 plus years and switched to electric three years ago. Now, having so much fun. I am able to fly more than before with almost no equipment problems. Switching to electric is the best thing I have ever done.

I can list the basic advantages as follows:
No oil to clean up
No vibration, electronics last longer
Quiet
No starters, no time lost for starting and starting issues
Very little to no maintenance
The start up may seem higher but you will get your money back as the longevity of the equipment is very long wrt to glow especially 4 stroke engines.
No hustles such as flame outs which may be very costly in a contest.
And the battery prices are coming down. These Rhino's and Zippy's from Asia are extremely economical and hard to beat.

These are the reasons that I can remember so far.

As a proof, everyday, we are seeing more pattern guys switching to electric.

Nedim

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 4:01 AM   
jessiej



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nedim

Ok, back to the glow vs. electric discussion.

It seems to me, it is always the glow guys who are against electric. There exist almost no electric guy (with a few exception) who is not happy with flying electric and went back to glow. Mostly, (again it is my opinion) glow pattern guys are trying to find something to dislike in electric in order to stay in flying glow.

Nedim


I have absolutely nothing against electric or those who like them. I simply am find them of no personal interest. (Likewise I have absolutely no interest in anything ARF (that clearly makes me a minority) I wish I did, they would provide me another source of entertainment. Perhaps I can gain some sort of protected status as an endangered species.

jess

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 4:37 AM   
nedim



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej


quote:

ORIGINAL: nedim

Ok, back to the glow vs. electric discussion.

It seems to me, it is always the glow guys who are against electric. There exist almost no electric guy (with a few exception) who is not happy with flying electric and went back to glow. Mostly, (again it is my opinion) glow pattern guys are trying to find something to dislike in electric in order to stay in flying glow.

Nedim


I have absolutely nothing against electric or those who like them. I simply am find them of no personal interest. (Likewise I have absolutely no interest in anything ARF (that clearly makes me a minority) I wish I did, they would provide me another source of entertainment. Perhaps I can gain some sort of protected status as an endangered species.

jess



That is quite understandable. My words are for a technical comparison not for personal choices. At the end, this is a hobby and enthusiasts are free to choose what they want. When it comes to compete in a world class level, that is totally a new ball game and that is what I am (and some others) talking about.

Now, I am getting old but still flying F3A and my flying skills are not getting better to let me go to a world championship unlike 20 years ago.

In summary, I am saying that using electric power for F3A is very advantageous and one shall not blame on electric for his less succesfull flying and go back to glow with this though because at the end of the day the results will not be any better. Ok, if he likes the noise of the glow engine and the smell of the fuel that is totally different.

Obviously, the proof of this argument lies in the fact of seeing more and more contestants everyday flying electric.

Nedim

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 5:04 AM   
Sentry4


 

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 5:10 AM   
turbo.gst


 

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Status: offline 		I fly both glow and electric, and enjoy both! Having been in the hobby for almost 30 years, I have a problem with the guys saying they hate to wipe off a glow powered airplane at days end. Why in the world would anyone stay in our hobby for so long if they truely hated doing that so much. I almost discount someone with any real time in modeling when they use that point. I even know of a few guys that said the same when switching from years of glow to sailplanes, before electric was even a choice. They sure seem pretty silly for making fun of something they did for years. With that being said, I hope that electric continues to progress. If it becomes so much better than glow that it makes it obsolete, I will proudly switch over completely. BUT, I will never lower myself to making fun of someone cleaning of a glow plane after a good day of flying. I would feel like a hypocrite.

flame suit on......

turbo



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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/6/2009 5:23 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Turbo ... the real reason why I hate to clean the mess, despite loving GP planes, is because I am LAZY. Its a lousy excuse though.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/7/2009 12:31 AM   
2Sunny


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tIANci

Turbo ... the real reason why I hate to clean the mess, despite loving GP planes, is because I am LAZY. Its a lousy excuse though.


Oh no you don't . . . trying to out do me in my own thread . . . I am LAAAAZZZZYYYYYY when it comes to my hobby because not only do I not like to clean, I HATE to build, adjust, tinker, etc. All I want is to do is FLY!

Speaking of flying I just made some changes to my Fliton Inspire and now she's a 10s efficient machine that will run for 15 minutes thus negating the one and only advantage with which I agreed so far. And how about that supposed cost advantage of an initial setup. I know NOTHING about glow so hopefully somebody else can offer a comparable list for glow. If one were starting from scratch here's my calculation:


Bantam BC-6 Charger $140
8 x Rhino 5s5000 batteries $560
Fliton Inspire 90 $300
Hyperion Z4045-14 $120
Jeti Spin 75 esc $195


and the rest should be the same TX, RX, servos, etc . . .


so total electric bill for 1 hour of uninterrupted Sportsman practice on a 1.7 meter 10lb plane = $1315


I'm sure I'm forgetting something so standby for EDITS


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< Message edited by 2Sunny -- 7/7/2009 1:29 AM >

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/7/2009 9:50 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Oh you want to boast now ... I am so lazy that I have these 2 college girls who will carry my plane and TX for me to the flight line, when I am flying one hold the umbrella whist the other massages my back. Sigh ... if only ... hahahahaahahahahaa ...

Inspire on 10S? Are you nuts???!!! We are talking about 2:1 thrust to weight ratio here at the very least!!! I was keen on the Wind 110 on 10S, still undecided.

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/7/2009 11:12 AM   
Rendegade



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Status: offline 		I have one, does that count? She fuels up while I marvel at how awesome she is.



EDIT: I think that's another plus factor for I.C. engines for me!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/7/2009 2:50 PM   
tIANci



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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/9/2009 7:00 AM   
theflyboy1


 

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Status: offline 		I STARTED FLYING GLOW AND DID FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS UNTIL ONE DAY AT THE CLUB A GUY WITH A LITTLE ULTIMATE EP BIPE ASKED ME IF I WANTED A FLIGHT WITH HIS PLANE.
AS ALWAYS I(AND SO DID MOST OF THE GUYS AT THE CLUB)I TURNED HIM DOWN AND TOLD HIM THAT ELECTRIC IS FOR WOMAN AND GLOW FOR MEN.WELL,HE KEPT ON ASKING ME TO TAKE THE ULTIMATE UP AND SO I DID...
I NOW DONT HAVE ANY GLOW MODELS IN MY HANGER.EP IS THE WAY TO GO..THE PERFORMANCE COMPARED TO GLOW(IN SIZE) IS UNCONPERABLE.NO MORE DEAD STICKS,NO MORE MISFIRES,NO MORE PROBLEMS STARTING OR TUNING,NO MORE MESS OF GLOW OIL/FUEL ON MY JEANS OR MY CAR"S BACK SEAT.YES,THE FLIGHT TIMES ARE LESS,BUT THEN AGAIN I HAVE A STACK OF BATTERIES,SO WHEN I LAND,IT TAKES ME A MINUTE TO "REFUEL"!
PLUG&PLAY IS THE WAY TO GO!

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RE: Glow vs. Electric. Let the discussion begin. - 7/9/2009 7:41 AM   
tIANci



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Status: offline 		Flyboy is a CONVERT! Come on in brother and rejoice with us singing the praises of EP!!!

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