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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC >> Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted
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Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/3/2009 3:07 PM   
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From: Hebden BridgeWest Yorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

This is the first time I have posted in this section as I mostly hang around the electric stuff. I have been flying models for a long time now but recently I must admit that the vintage stuff is fascinating me more and more, even ideas of control line models are stirring my blood.

I have a hankering to build a replica of a plane I always wanted to build as a kid - the Veron Concord. There were two versions of this, the full size 60 version and the Mini-Concord. It is the larger of the two I am most interested in. Does anyone have any pictures, or better still plans available.

My intention is to keep the basic shape, with possibly some modifications to improve the aerobatics, and bring bring it right up to date by designing a new version for electric power.

Any information you can give will be gratefully received.

Regards,

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/3/2009 4:16 PM   
RFJ



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Status: offline 		Dave,

Plan still available from the designer -

Phil Smith
32 Verwood Crescent
Southbourne
Bournemouth
Dorset BH6 4JE
England

Phone: 0202-433431


Ray

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/3/2009 5:51 PM   
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Status: online 		Regarding the control line aspect, you may fancy a look at this thread on the Keil Kraft Phantom Mite:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8883073/tm.htm

Robert

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/3/2009 6:42 PM   
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From: Hebden BridgeWest Yorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for the information gentlemen.

Ray I may now have enough information to design my facsimile thanks to your images. I am not going to try to emulate the original too closely other than in the looks department. I might use a fully symmetrical wing section and reduce the dihedral to "0" or maybe just a couple of degrees. I want a hot aerobat with rough field capabilites, electric as previously stated but with that vintage look.

Regards and happy landings to you both.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/4/2009 5:02 PM   
ukengineman


 

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Status: offline 		Dave,

I always considered the Veron Concord to be strongly influenced by Doug Spreng's Stormer and you might like to consider that model also. I have attached a scan of the plan.
You might also be interested to know that I met Phil Smith again in May 2009 at the vintage R/C meeting at Middle Wallop where I was flying. By chance a fellow club member had brought along his Veron Mini Concord and Phil kindly posed for a photo holding the model, see attachment.

Alan


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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/4/2009 5:04 PM   
RFJ



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Status: offline 		I hope you got Phil to sign the wing - an honour indeed to meet and fly with the Great Man

Ray

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/5/2009 8:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Alan,

Yes, I see what you mean they are very similar. In fact the Stormer is almost what I am looking to recreate - but scaled to about 48" wingspan. The tailplane structure is much less complicated than the full size Concord, which had 57 parts (see Ray's attached article).

What is very interesting, and thank you for posting the plan, are the wing and tail sections aerofoils - semi-symmetrical and fully symmetrical.

The tail fin shape is perhaps not as swish as the Concord but that is only a minor cosmetic change. Looking at them I can't believe how so nearly the same they are. Obvously the wingspan and chord of the Concord are different but I have to say that the influence of the Stormer is very strong indeed.

Thank you for your response you have moved me a lot closer to creating my design.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/5/2009 8:37 PM   
ukengineman


 

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Status: offline 		Dave,

PM me your email address if you want a higher resolution scan of the Stormer. Next time I see Phil Smith I might ask him if he was influenced by the Stormer in designing the Concord.

Alan

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/5/2009 11:16 PM   
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From: Hebden BridgeWest Yorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Alan,

PM sent. Thanks.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/5/2009 11:39 PM   
ukengineman


 

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Status: offline 		Dave, scan emailed

Regards, Alan

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/7/2009 1:18 AM   
psuguru


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFJ

Dave,

Plan still available from the designer -

Phil Smith
32 Verwood Crescent
Southbourne
Bournemouth
Dorset BH6 4JE
England

Phone: 0202-433431


Ray

Oh fount of all knowledge!
Any idea of who might have a plan of the Veron Bee-Bug? 'Bought the kit off Ebay in a fit of nostalgia.....no plan.
Regards,
Carole

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/7/2009 7:34 AM   
RFJ



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quote:

Oh fount of all knowledge


Blimey, never been called that before ....although I think you probably mean "font"

Actually Carole that plan is also still available direct from Phil - this little drawing is from his catalogue.

Alternately, plan available from here http://www.model-plans.co.uk/veron.htm

Ray



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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/7/2009 3:44 PM   
psuguru


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFJ

quote:

Oh fount of all knowledge


Blimey, never been called that before ....although I think you probably mean ''font''

Actually Carole that plan is also still available direct from Phil - this little drawing is from his catalogue.

Alternately, plan available from here http://www.model-plans.co.uk/veron.htm

Ray



Ah well,
A font is a little puddle that one dips into from time to time; a fount sprays you all over. Choose your metaphor!

Thanks for the info. I succumbed to nostalgia and bought a part kit of the very first flying model I ever had, in 1963.
Cheers,
Carole

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/8/2009 7:40 PM   
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From: Hebden BridgeWest Yorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

My latest is that I have temporarily placed the revised Concord on the back burner. This is only because I revisited another post about Pete Russell's models that were published in RCM&E and fell in love with his Striker all over again. It's raging nostalgia I think!

I have already started design work on a 48" electric version but I would appreciate any pictures you might have of this plane.

My plan (no pun intended) is to finish the new design and go straight back to the Concord. They will both have the same size of wing and tail, aspect ratios and aerofoils. The wing section I am using is an NACA 0015 15% thickness at 29.7% of the chord. Once I have created the Striker wing, creating the one for the Concord will take no time at all. Then it's just a different fuselage and tail arrangement et voila two planes for the price of one.

Thanks.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/8/2009 8:18 PM   
RFJ



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Status: offline 		Dave,

Just for info, the original Striker had a 12.5% symmetrical wing section and the Concord an NACA 2415.

Ray

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/8/2009 11:15 PM   
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Status: offline 		Ray, that's most interesting thanks. Where did you get that information from?

By any chance do you also know what the Strikers tailplane and rudder sections were?

I chose the NACA 0015 section as I thought it suited my purposes best, but I may modify the thickness parameter based on your information. I intend using the same wing profile on both the Concord and Striker, although I may apply 2 degrees of dihedral to the Concord wing. That will be for looks not for stability - I don't need or want a plane that self-corrects in anyway. I am just trying to emulate the looks of these planes in a 48" wingspan electric powered package only. I am not inending making exact scaled copies.

Regards,

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/8/2009 11:56 PM   
RFJ



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quote:

Where did you get that information from


Dave,

Info from the full size Concord plan and the RCM&E Striker plan/article. PM me your e-mail address if you would like a copy of the Striker article. I can send it as a PDF attachment.

Ray

< Message edited by RFJ -- 7/8/2009 11:57 PM >

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/9/2009 5:55 AM   
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Status: online 		And don't worry that with the original wing and dihedral the Concord is not aerobatic, it is, and nearly neutral too. Very nice to fly airplane. You might like to increase the size of the rudder a bit just to ensure a positive stall turn, and don't let the cg get too far forward, mine won't spin, but as I use it for training I don't mind.

Evan, WB #12.

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 7/9/2009 8:48 AM   
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Status: offline 		PM sent Ray - thank you.

Evan, that is most interesting. Just to clarify - are you talking about the full size version -the Concord - or are you talking about the Mini-Concord? It is interesting that you say that the plane is nearly neutral as I always balance mine so they will fly upside down without any pressure on the stick. I do like a neutral balance. I also want good spins and stall turns which of course require the larger rudder you mention.

Also interesting is that you are still flying a Concord - how long have you had the plane and do you have any pictures? More details please.

I still may replace the wing section with a fully symmetrical one but based on the light of this new information, should I? - this needs more thought!

Regards to you both.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 2:52 PM   
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From: Hebden BridgeWest Yorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

Just thought I would call back to this thread and show you the progress I have made on the new Striker, or should that be Striker 2 or even Striker E48??

Anyway, I still have a fair bit of work to do before I can get some laser cut wood but it is progressing nicely now and I am quite happy with the design so far. Whilst the plane is similar in profile and aspect ratio to Peter's original, the construction bears only superficial resemblance. I have done away with the sloppy bellcrank aileron control system in favour of direct-to-servo connections. The split flaps have been totally redesigned and the fuselage shape is different, although it may look the same.

Power will be provided by a .25 to .32 brushless motor equivalent turning something like 12x8 APC E prop (may require experimentation) and a battery pack of 3S 3300mAh 25C, which should give between 12-15 minutes flight time.

This design would never have got this far without your help so once again thank you.

I will post again when the plane is finished.

Happy landings.

Dave

P.S. - I have not forgotten about the Concord.

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 3:34 PM   
RFJ



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quote:

or should that be Striker 2


Pete actually produced a Striker 2 - very like the original but with slimmed down fuselage and "conventional" full depth rudder. Have a photo somewhere but would take forever to find it

"Striker-E" - I like it

Ray

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 5:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Ray,

OK, it's christened - the "Striker-E" it is.

Out of curiosity do you know why Peter Russell produced a Striker 2 version and what changes were made and the reasoning behind them? I must admit that I don't ever remember seeing it in RCM&E.

You have intrigued me now.

Regards,

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 8:17 PM   
RFJ



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Status: offline 		Dave - these are the only shots I can find of the Striker 2. Sorry for the poor quality but they are scanned from very small pictures in early 70's RCM&E's.

Changes are slimmer fuselage, strip ailerons and revised fin and rudder layout. Main reason for the changes was probably because these features were in fashion at the time . Also, of course, it produces a better looking model

Ray

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 9:19 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thank you Ray, I do appreciate the effort it must have taken to post these pictures for me.

The Mk II is certainly simpler with the strip ailerons - obviously the split flaps have been done away with. The comparison in picture three is fascinating. I bet the reduction in the fuselage side area did nothing to improve knife edge flying though.

On reflection I much prefer the looks and features of the original. I'll take the gamble that flight performance was not improved and continue with my design.

Regards.

Dave

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RE: Veron Concord RC plane - info. wanted - 8/1/2009 11:30 PM   
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Status: online 		I remember the old 'S&L' where Peter explained the changes 'tween Striker 1 and 2, something to do with opposite roll with rudder deflection with the high rudder/wing relationship on S1. Unless you are looking for absolute neutral response, which is very hard to achieve, I wouldn't worry about it over-much. Regarding Concord, I have a piccie somewhere and I'll try to find it for you, been flying it since 2002 and it is a very gentle thing. Mine has the cg too far forward, with the battery at the back of the radio bay, so it need a bit of down pressure to maintain height while inverted, and with the cambered section too. I doubt any section/balance/rigging changes will remove that necessity, only change the amount needed. It will perform all the usual aerobatics, and is pretty low drag so has a wide speed range. nice 'Sunday ' aeroplane.
Evan.

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