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CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 3:28 PM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
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I had been admiring the CAModel Passport and was thinking of ordering one.

However, I was aware of the quality problems of other CAmodel planes in the past. But after seeing Chip flying at the Tangerine this winter and Jason test flying the plane, I was really enthusiastic.

The plane looked very good, and the guys flying it were very happy.

So, I ordered my kit , asking for a light one for electric, with split rudder. I asked Marcelo Colombo to install a quick release mechanism for the Canopy, similar to the ones he had been shipping for the chin cowl .


I was surprised by what I received !!!!

I won't go into my fruitless efforts to return the kit.......

I should have ordered a basic Kit and have it finished in a professionnal way, by professionnal builders !!!

So, I want to let you know what you get for the Deluxe Kit.

You can make your own conclusions.

In the following posts, are pictures of what was in the kit I received with a few comments.


Jean-Paul Delteil

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 3:42 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		This kit is not very light for Electric

It comes with an engine firewall installed, even if you asked a light kit for electric

Fuselage with engine cowl 1040
Canopy 110
Rudder single 90
Left wing and left aileron 380 + 50
Right wing and right aileron 390 + 50
Left stab and left elevator 80 + 20
Right stab and right elevator 80 +20
Carbon tubes 75
Landing gear 130
Wheel pants 40
Servo tray 45
Carbon spinner 45


Total 2645 g

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 3:52 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		High tech canopy by Camodel.

Mine needed a dremel to cut the screw ........

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 4:18 PM   
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Status: offline 		Engine firewall ...

Inside of the fuselage.... not to much carbon reinforcement

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 4:23 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Fancy hole at the rear of the fuselage

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 4:30 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Here is the pic

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 4:38 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Maybe this time ?

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 4:42 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Very basic carbon spinner

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 5:19 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Looks like to me the carbon tubes are home made......
Not really round, and not fitting well , already some slope in the wing tube ....
Be prepared to some sanding ....

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 5:22 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		DELUXE Servo tray

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 5:26 PM   
J-P


 

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Status: offline 		Nothing is pre-hinged on this kit .....

And again some fancy holes on the top of the wing panels

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 5:36 PM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
Status: offline 		For the elevators servos, do what you want !!!!!!!

This is an ARF DELUXE KIT .......Almost Ready to Finish .....

So be prepared to cut slots in the fuse, in the stabs .....

Easy job (after painting done), and professionnal finishing guaranteed according to CAMODEL

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 5:46 PM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
Status: offline 		Marcelo Colombo from CAMODEL sent me this e-mail ...

In aviation, when something is done for security or safety reasons, that means there were some incidents or accidents .......

I hope Camodel personally advised all of us flying with a split rudder on their PASSPORT[ ]

Any comment, or feedback ?




De : info@camodel.com.ar
Date : April 28, 2009 3:08:47 PM CEDT
Objet : Rép : Passport


Hello Jean
I am happy that your model arrive safe without damage.Let me explain your question.
About the split rudders since 2/3 mounth we don´t produce any more split rudders, after many many flight we get the almost the same result without complication with two servos , mixes, less weight, etc-
For your security the new model for this season like Todd Blose, Hyde were built without split rudders.


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< Message edited by J-P -- 7/3/2009 9:42 PM >

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 6:42 PM   
1bwana1


 

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Status: online 		Jean,
Interesting to read your posts, and see the pictures. I have not seen these pictures since they were taken. These pictures were from the last Pattern contest here in Southern California. The Passport did very well at this well attended contest. The electric (Neu) powered Passports won all three of the top classes, F3A, Masters, and Advanced. All won with perfect 4,000 point totals. My Passport is the one in the pictures without the split rudder. I also know some of the other planes have split rudders but are not using this feature. They have the rudders programmed to work like a single rudder. Although Chip does use the split rudder feature, and says he gets some very subtle benefits from it, the Passport flies at a top level without it.

I agree, the Passport kit is not as easy to build as some others on the market. However, I think that you will find the extra effort worth it when you begin flying it.

I hope you find this information useful.

Steve

< Message edited by 1bwana1 -- 7/3/2009 6:45 PM >

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 6:44 PM   
tuny


 

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Status: offline 		From my experience:

the fancy holes on top of the wing panels are for two screws that secure the wing tube in position

hinges, I think they left this for presonal preferences. great!

Fancy hole in the back of the fuse, is for painting reasons, to hold the fuse somehow. it will be hidden below the rudder so you cant see it.

split rudder: I agree, (I dont use it) but, if all of us use al least a 200 oz. torque servo for the rudder, how can two mini servos do the job?

Elev servos, do what you want... I think this is great, use you prefered method. you are not restricted to the manufacturer choice.


best regards.

TUNY

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 9:40 PM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
Status: offline 		Hi Tuny

Hope you realize the price of the DELUXE KIT is 2490$ +300$ shipping +19,6% sales taxes in EUROPE

And when you receive an airplane not corresponding to what you ordered, you realize it's just a basic painted Kit, and the paint job is not that good.

Even on a 150$ VANQUISH, or a SEBART ANGEL 50, you have all the surfaces pre-hinged, the landing gear drilled, the carbon tubes of good quality, and like CARF, OXAI, ZN LINE or PL PROD, you have just to drill the holes to install the servos.



For the same money, you can have an OXAI ( AZURIT for example) really a ready to fly model, you just have to glue the hinges, and install the engine and the servos.

The CARF INTEGRAL cost just half the price and fly very well too.

I know the PASSPORT is flying very well.

The problem here is price, quality of the DELUXE KIT, and customer service.

Jean-Paul

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/3/2009 11:20 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		I have seen them fly with both the split rudder and non split rudder and from a flying stand point, didn't make much difference. I did fly Chip's with the split rudder a couple of weeks ago and the rudder authority with the mini 9650 servos was unbelievable. It had as much rudder authority as any plane I've ever seen and the knife edge loops Chip did last weekend at our contest here in TX were as nice as I've ever seen. The 2 mini servos definitely work, but only with the split rudder. I don't know if it is because you are only moving 1 half in a pulling motion, but it is very impressive. Not 100% sure it is necessary, but it does work...

Arch

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 12:15 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

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Status: online 		I would say you're onto something Arch. The rudder is deflecting to the low pressure side of the fuse in knife edge, so that probably reduces the load a bit.

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 12:49 AM   
apereira


 

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Status: offline 		Hello J-P,

Sorry to hear you are disappointed, but I would like to share something with you, I think the split rudder does not worth the hassle and weigh, besides, Marcelo don't use it, that's reason enough for me no to use it.

The hole in the rudder post, yes it's not that nice, but you can not see it when assembled, really.

I strongly suggest you to remove the servo tray from the bag and re-weight it.

Of course I agree with Tuny on hinges, too many choices.

On the stab, attached please find the pictures of the stabs the way I go it from Camodel, I asked them to build the stabs for the JR 3421, and even the servo tray is in place, I really do not understand what happened with yours, I wanted mine concealed in the stab and they did it that way, but other people install them on the intradox, so you have the choice to do it either way.

A friend has two Zeque's from Oxai, and the aileron and elevator bevel wasn't painted, actually there was only over spray from the paint design, that really looks ugly on a plane of that price, but, of course I don't own the truth, it might been only those two, but I don't know.

I think that thinking about returning a kit for those details is kind of overkill, I'm sure you will love it once you fly it.

Best regards

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< Message edited by apereira -- 7/4/2009 5:34 AM >

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 8:12 AM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
Status: offline 		Thanks Tuny and Apereira

It's a good new for dealers to know in Venezuela there are guys ready to pay a basic painted kit 2900$ + taxes ........

Anyway sponsored pilots are always very happy , it's not a breaking news....


This post is just to show what you could received ordering a DELUXE KIT from CAMODEL.

If you are happy with this nevel of finish, you can order it, Airplane is very good.

Customer service is another story





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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 8:39 AM   
Dave Kelly



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quote:

ORIGINAL: J-P

The CARF INTEGRAL cost just half the price and fly very well too.

Jean-Paul


It is also half as complete as your passport again! My all White Integral out the box would not fit together,
The left wing and horizontal stabiliser would not fit the fuselage holes!! After much "Dremeling" and Hysoling
and using Robart incidence meters i got it together.
And it does fly straight and true.
Composite "ARF"... hmmmm?
a+
David

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 1:21 PM   
J-P


 

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From: Saint Nom , FRANCE
Status: offline 		Hi DAVID

Maybe you were not lucky, because guys in my club have the same kit and are very happy, .... and they fly competition.

Here is what you paid for your all white kit.


Integral (all white) Product#: 702000
This is the all white model. Please look at the CARF Scheme product page for much more detailed information..

The Integral is a joint venture between Composite-ARF and ZN-Line. The plane ...
USD 1,190.00$


This is what I got for 1590$, very good value in my opinion

You will see a few of them at the World's.....



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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/4/2009 11:53 PM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		JP,
Mine on a YS with CDI came in at 10.6 lbs, about 4812 g. I went with DEPS instead of dual servos in the back. Several people have done that, so that is probably why they don't put in the servo openings in the horizontals or in the fuselage. I measured everything, and DEPS was within about 5 to 10 grams of being the same as two 3421SA's in the tail.

I saved some weight in the wings by hollowing out the removable wing tips, and putting lightening holes in the wing tip rib and with root rib. My wings with servos, etc. came in right around 460g. I also use aluminum 4-40 screws to hold the tips on. I added bulkheads for the fuel tank and some other stiffening that you wouldn't need on electric, including a bulkhead behind the canopy, and covering the ventilation holes in the fuselage floor. I also added the fuselage mount for a T-canalyzer to try out.

As others have said, you won't see the painting jig hole in the rudder post once you mount the rudder. Mine did not come with a quick release for the chin cowl either, but it uses a single 4-40 bolt which is pretty quick to remove.

If yours is a deluxe arf, the fuselage should be carbon fiber in the front and kevlar in the rear. Yours looks as though it may have the fiberglass fuselage. I'm not sure for an electric that it would make much difference.

I've only got a few flights on mine as it will be my backup at the NATS. I plan to fly it a lot more after the NATS.

Almost forgot. The finish on the wing tubes is not as nice as the PBG. However, they do work ok, and we have been having issues in the states with getting PBG tubes recently. I smear on some thick CA to get things a little tighter, but I have had to do that with PBG tubes also. PBG tubes are slightly lighter, so if you are close on weight, they might be a way to get under.

You are correct, the rudder servo tray out of lite ply is not very light. I replaced it with a narrower honeycomb tray. I basically copied what Tuny did in his build thread.

< Message edited by jonlowe -- 7/5/2009 12:03 AM >

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/5/2009 2:57 AM   
apereira


 

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Status: offline 		Hello JP

You are right on the sponsored pilots, I never hear complaints from any of them, the few I know of course, in our case, we pay for Fedex internationl priority which is the safest way to get it here and we pay around $500 just Fedex, then 10% + 20% import and VAT, and trust me after I bought 3 kits deluxe for me, I know how much it cost, I also had a Comp Arf Impact, but sold it to change to Camodel when CPLR came out with the Osmose.

I really can't believe the little details on the Passport you mentioned are worse than the fuselage join line on the Carf Integral, having to use paint or the sticker they sell to cover it is better? Don't get me wrong is a fantastic design I wanted to try one after I met Stephan Carrier and his father Pierre at the last worlds, but there were non available at that time.

I think everything comes down to what you like or expect, I have never had a better kit than those I bought from the Czech Republic that, to me is the best I ever seen, besides Naruke's airplanes, but never got an F3A one.

I can buy Oxai, but I like Camodel's airplanes, but when you say that you just want to warn the people at what they are getting for the money, you are hurting that company, because if I would be a potential buyer I would think twice just because of the information you presented.

I guess another option would be to sell the airplane in France, it will not that difficult I guess, then buy an Oxai I guess, but that's only an idea.

Regards

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RE: CAMODEL PASSPORT DELUXE KIT - 7/5/2009 8:09 AM   
flyf3a


 

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Status: offline 		Hallo JP

On 2650 grams you might have a problem getting under the weight limit without having to do some serious weight reduction. You need to get it down to at least 2300 grams before you start with any installations.

We all feel for you as there is no worse feeling having waited for so long for a kit to arrive only to relaise that you got the one manufactured on a Monday morning. I have seen some Passports that are good quality and you seem to have gotten a raw deal.

Regards
Burt

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