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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/4/2009 5:56 PM   
1bwana1


 

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Status: online 		Also consider a used plane, more for less.

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/4/2009 8:40 PM   
RC11


 

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Status: offline 		There are many planes that will fit the bill. Hangar 9 Showtime with an OS120is a great plane if it is still available. I had one with a ST2300 and it was very true and a good bargain. Have 2 friends flying Sportsman at our field with me and both fly the Venus ll. One has the OS120AX and the other has an OS 4 stroke. This is an excellent plane and if I had it to do over Again and was insistent on building my own airplane, I'd probably go that direction. I've seen more Venus lls in Sportsman and it is more than capable.........However..... There are a lot of great used bargains out there. Example... RCflyermike had a plane for sale here on RCU. This was a top of the line airplane built by a super builder and it was advertsed at $1000. Sounds pricey? You will have that in a Venus ll after all the outfitting is done. It was or is a CA Models Eclipse ready to fly with top of the line servos, an OS140RX, Mueller header, ES pipe and all top shelf hardware. The motor set up and mount cost more than his asking price! Spend your time flying and you'll stay ahead of the curve. PM Mike and see if the plane is still available.
Buy good used...
Just my 2 cents worth.
RC11

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/4/2009 11:19 PM   
crankpin


 

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/4/2009 11:51 PM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		The Focus sport is hard to beat. Put a new YS 1.15 in the nose and go fly. It is a great entry level plane. Finding a good used plane is also a great idea,

Arch

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 12:47 AM   
cappaj1



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Status: offline 		Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Keep them coming. So far this is how I feel about the ones I've seen here:

World Models Spot On 120 $400 Like alot
Northeast Aquila - $439 -don't like looks
Sebart Wind 110 - $700 - extremely sharp looker, looks like it'd fly very well!
Venus II do not like looks of
SebArt Wind S 110E $574 - LOVE IT!!
SebArt Angel 50 - $299 - doesn't look pattern enough
Fliton Inspire 90 ARF $339 Looks like a 'first place' plane - Very hard to beat for price.
Focus Sport by Central Hobbies 66in ARF $295 - not desirable in any way to me
Hyperion Helios F3A 90e ARF 68" $360 - one of my favorites

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 1:08 AM   
rcpattern



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Status: offline 		Jim,

I have flown most of the planes on your list. The Focus Sport flies better than most. The Spot on is OK, but the one I flew had some mixing issues...

Arch

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 2:50 AM   
gmohr



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Status: online 		Yeah I agree, you are missing the boat on the Focus Sport. I have one with a YS 110, and I've really got it dialed in now. Everyone who has flown one compares them favorably even with 2 meter ships. So basically, it flies a lot better than I do lol.

Two suggestions... run 30% nitro heli blend in that YS.. dont even mess around with anything else
and
Double check the right thrust, should be 3%. Even with the stock offset block, mine has 1.5 degrees, and it needs more.

Anyways, I'm sure all of those planes will serve you well.

Regards,
George

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 3:07 AM   
LLD


 

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Status: online 		Jim,

I have a 2M Pattern Plane all wood built. The design is a Titan sold by Precision Aero Composites. This isn't one of those kits. It is however an all wood built plane by Ron Clark. I bought it in 2005 and it's been hanging since. I started to get it ready last year to compete, but didn't get it closed...Here is the deal and it's kind of two parts:

Since I picked up another plane that my wife liked better (purely looks), I will offer the 2M Titan. If you decide to buy it, you must have someone look it over and help you out. I will also detail in this post what I know needs to be done and concerns I have before flying it. Here is what you will get for $650.00.

Titan Airframe RTF (add your Rx)
YS 140 DZ (used / low time)
TT Spinner and prop (APC 16 x 12)
NMP Header
Hatori Exhaust (I think)
All Servo's are Digital except throttle
Wing Servos are either JR or Futaba (I can't remember what Ron told me)
Rudder Servo is New Airtronic 94358
PPG CF Wing Tube
Weight RTF (dry) is 10 pounds 5 ounces

Second NIB YS 140DZ add $350.00 (back up engine, never used)

If you want the Airframe only (minus the engine, exhaust, and the Elevator / Rudder Servo's) -  $350.00

Here is what needs to be done (what I planned to do) before flying:

The motor mount is a soft mount made by Ron Clark based on Pasto Mount plans by Bob Pastorello @  http://www.rcaerobats.net/mount1.htm. For the YS 140 DZ, a good bump during tuning and it rotated and caused minor cosmetic damage to the side of the fuse area. You would only need to CA the balsa down and patch that area if needed with Yellow Mono-Kote. The right wing servo needs looked at because it jitters with a new battery. I fly Airtronics and it's known that some JR Servos don't like ATX. If it is a Futaba Servo it will need replaced or serviced. The covering on the wing needs to be cut around the servo to remove the servo. The chin cowl is basically molded Fiber Glass. I was going to build a frame to strudy it up and mount it a bit different, this is cosmetic...

I can meet someone at the NATS for them to take the plane back to you. I would also recommend that you contact someone to look at it for you at the NATS if you go this route. There is no pressure for me to sell and no obligation for you to buy if you decide you don't want it.

Others are free to post their thoughts if they know the plane or me personally. I'm also willing to drive to meet you somewhere. I've done this a couple of times with other planes I've sold...

This offer is to Jim only, unless Jim tells me he will pass.

Here is a picture...Yes it's on the dinner table...LOL...I have another plane on the table now...

If you want to know why I'm making this offer, many of the folks posting here helped me get started. Just trying to help someone else get started...

Larry Diamond
AMA 5024
NSRCA 3083



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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 10:58 AM   
cappaj1



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Status: offline 		Recap choices in order of my personal preference:

69 inch $400 World Models Spot On 120 $400 Like alot

69 inch $575 SebArt Wind S 110E $574 - LOVE IT BUT MOST EXPENSIVE!!

68 inch $300 Fliton Inspire 90 ARF $339 Looks like a 'first place' plane - Very hard to beat for price.

68 inch $360 Hyperion Helios F3A 90e ARF 68" $360 - one of my favorites

66 inch $295 Focus Sport by Central Hobbies 66in ARF $295 - not desirable in any way to me
70 inch $439 Northeast Aquila - $439 -don't like looks
66 inch $290 Venus II do not like looks of
63 inch $300 SebArt Angel 50 - $299 - doesn't look pattern

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< Message edited by cappaj1 -- 7/5/2009 11:05 AM >

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 12:08 PM   
cappaj1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: LLD

Jim,

I have a 2M Pattern Plane all wood built. The design is a Titan sold by Precision Aero Composites. This isn't one of those kits. It is however an all wood built plane by Ron Clark. I bought it in 2005 and it's been hanging since. I started to get it ready last year to compete, but didn't get it closed...Here is the deal and it's kind of two parts:
Here is what you will get for $650.00.

This offer is to Jim only, unless Jim tells me he will pass.



Larry, I'm probably going to regret this but -

Thanks for the offer, but it's not something I'm interested in.

I'm sure it's a good deal to someone out there, plus it's a lot more plane than the ones I've been looking at, and the YS engine alone is worth a good penny, but I'm going to pass.

Good luck on selling it though and I have a feeling someone else who reads this is going to be aware of what a good offer it is and take you up on it. Thanks again for thinking of helping out a newbie. If I change my mind and nobody else takes you up on the offer, I will let you know.

Jim

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 12:52 PM   
LLD


 

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Status: online 		Jim,

No Problem... I have posted it on RCU now.

I'm not any help with your top three, but they look good to me.

I'm currently building a World Model Zen 50 ARF. This morning I hit a snaffu...The elevator push rod assembly had a threaded rod that is defective. I will need to replace it. Other than that the World Model kit is good.

I won't list all my planes, but I have them stored all over my house. Here are my pattern planes:

2M Temptation (just bought last weekend)
Black Magic VF3 Pro Kit (not started)

Good luck on making your choice. I don't think you will be disappointed with the top 3...

Larry Diamond

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/5/2009 1:30 PM   
crankpin


 

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Status: offline 		Cappa - What is your motivation ? Pattern plane for sport flying, or competition ? If competition, you may need two. Traveling long distance to a contest, warrant's a backup. My opinion only.

Vince

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 1:21 AM   
randy10926


 

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Status: offline 		Just got first flights on my e-power focus sport. What a nice set-up. The focus sport is an excellent choice for pattern plane.

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 2:54 AM   
ro347


 

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Status: online 		Keep in mind....since you're looking for pattern - you are searching for a plane that has proven itself by performing well. Looks come second. You can always change scheme, or add vinyl and decals.


quote:

ORIGINAL: cappaj1

Recap choices in order of my personal preference:

69 inch $400 World Models Spot On 120 $400 Like alot

69 inch $575 SebArt Wind S 110E $574 - LOVE IT BUT MOST EXPENSIVE!!

68 inch $300 Fliton Inspire 90 ARF $339 Looks like a 'first place' plane - Very hard to beat for price.

68 inch $360 Hyperion Helios F3A 90e ARF 68'' $360 - one of my favorites

66 inch $295 Focus Sport by Central Hobbies 66in ARF $295 - not desirable in any way to me
70 inch $439 Northeast Aquila - $439 -don't like looks
66 inch $290 Venus II do not like looks of
63 inch $300 SebArt Angel 50 - $299 - doesn't look pattern



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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:05 AM   
cappaj1



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Status: offline 		A fella offered to sell me his Hangar-9 Showtime. I read a review saying it's a good 3d as well as good pattern plane. Is there any truth to that? Anyone out there use a Showtime or seen one in competition at the Sportsman level?

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:19 AM   
tIANci



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Status: online 		Jim ... I flown my pal's showtime and I am sure she is good enough for Sportman but why just have it for Sportman only? Look for something that is medium term, with a $500 budget you can for sure. I know you say the Angel does not look very pattern like but that plane is awesome for its size if you are into EP, of course it takes GP too now with the conversion kit but I find the build it kinda too light and it may suffer in GP mode.

I have flown the Spot On 50 and she is okay and the 120 is well priced ... but the 50 is no where near the Angel but still, the price is also cheaper. At $339 the Helios is a good buy. If you are getting the Fliton Inspire please check the ailerons before you purchase her, Fliton has the habit of building their planes so light that ailerons do warp. This actually happens on quite a few EP planes as they are just so lightly.

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:27 AM   
cappaj1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tIANci

Jim ... I flown my pal's showtime and I am sure she is good enough for Sportman but why just have it for Sportman only? Look for something that is medium term, with a $500 budget you can for sure. I know you say the Angel does not look very pattern like but that plane is awesome for its size if you are into EP, of course it takes GP too now with the conversion kit but I find the build it kinda too light and it may suffer in GP mode.

I have flown the Spot On 50 and she is okay and the 120 is well priced ... but the 50 is no where near the Angel but still, the price is also cheaper. At $339 the Helios is a good buy. If you are getting the Fliton Inspire please check the ailerons before you purchase her, Fliton has the habit of building their planes so light that ailerons do warp. This actually happens on quite a few EP planes as they are just so lightly.



Thanks for the tips, I hear you. What plane is that on your profile page at http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=profile&memid=87887

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:29 AM   
tIANci



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Status: online 		Jim ... that is the Fliton Prodigy ... its like the Angel ... hybrid 3D pattern or whatever you want to call it. Her ailerons were slightly warped. The results of building too light. I had the same problem with a Sebart SU29-30. Might be a combination of the light build and change in temp as the planes are shipped. The Prodigy is a small plane, in the 40" class. Fun to fly though.

< Message edited by tIANci -- 7/8/2009 3:31 AM >

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:36 AM   
cappaj1



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Status: offline 		Tell me more about the Helios if you can please. I like that plane.

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:43 AM   
tIANci



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Status: online 		I have not flown the Helios ... I seen the smaller one fly, was my friend's and it was the maiden flight so I did not want to ask to try it. It looked good. I have owned some Hyperions and mostly they are well designed and well built. But after owning the Sebart Angel and reading feedback on the forums I think its a real winner for a 50 sized EP plane. I just crashed mine and probably will pick up another, was tempted to get the Wind 110 but since I only fly for fun I decided that I can have double the number of flights with the Angel (5S) than the Wind (10S).

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/8/2009 3:56 AM   
cappaj1



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Status: offline 		Is this the Angel you're talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8uxYD84mPI
???

If so, sweet!!! I like that plane in the video - for looks and apparent flying capabilities.

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/10/2009 2:53 AM   
2Sunny


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Jim,

I own the Angel S 50e and the Fliton Inspire and have flown a Helios 90e, but I am a beginner Sportsman and have only flown in one competition where I used my Angel. The Angel is most definitely a capable entry level EP pattern ship, but in my inexperienced hands bigger and heavier is definitely easier so the Inspire is an easier plane to fly. Sadly, my Inspire gear broke (like the guy in Goshen) when I tried a 10s/10lb setup. The Inspire is NOT engineered for a heavy setup, but I repaired the gear and am VERY VERY happy with a 6s 8lb setup that gets 200 watts per lb. Cost for a 6s EP Inspire is also outstanding:

Inspire: $300
Hyperion 4035-12 (343kv) $107
Hyperion backmount kit $27
E-Flite 60 amp esc $85
Zippy 6s5000 LiPo $77


Total $596

That's not the setup I'm using as my motor is an AXI 4130-16, but I listed the Hyperion as a cheaper but certainly equal alternative.

And, the one thing I can say for sure is that the Inspire can win at the Sportsman level because the guy who won at the NJ competition I went to used one and I gather he won again in Goshen.


The one other item I would add is that based on my experience with the Angel and what I have read so far about the Sebart Wind, I would think that it would be the top performer by far if you are leaning towards EP but really thats just a gut feeling on my part with little value beyond maybe "2 cents".

Anyways, hope that helps!



Joe

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/10/2009 3:07 AM   
tIANci



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cappaj1

Is this the Angel you're talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8uxYD84mPI
???

If so, sweet!!! I like that plane in the video - for looks and apparent flying capabilities.


Jim ... that is the baby Angel ... the 30 ... mine is or rather was now, the 50. I would advice you to ensure that the battery tray is well secured, if you wanna fly hard. Don't ask me why I am telling you to do that! I miss my Angel ...

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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/10/2009 6:52 AM   
swlarcham



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Status: offline 		I just now found this on sale at chief aircraft. If I was looking for a 90 size I'd jump on it for the price.


Hyperion Katana F3A 90E ARF
The Katana F3a is tagged with the "90e" designation, which indicates the size of the model would suit .90ci two-cycle or 1.20 ci four-cycle engines, but that this model is all-electric.

Length: 67.86 inches
Wingspan: 67.0 inches
Wing Area: 762.6 sq in
Weight: 7.4~7.9 lbs

Katana F3A 90e ARF - $249.95*

i looks like a crossover plane with larger control surfaces but for $249.95 you could afford good quality servos( recomeneded anyway) and dial them down.
eddie


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RE: Need suggestions for first pattern plane up to $500... - 7/10/2009 8:26 PM   
insalacosm



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Status: offline 		Jim - Another vote for the Focus Sport. Not sure why you say it is not desirable, but if it's because of looks, you can easily change that. I didn't like the stock scheme so I spent some time making some covering changes and adding custom graphics. It's a great flier and I like the looks now too. Make sure you invest in something that is reliable, durable, and has excellent flight qualities. This is a pure pattern plane and it does that job very well.

ps. I grew up in Rochester and was a member of the RAMS when I was a kid.

Good luck.
Steve

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