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what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/5/2009 4:48 AM   
specialk1



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Status: offline 		I thought Aeromarine Laminates . makes one, but it is not on there web site . discontinued??? what others companies make hulls here in the US . just want to test out some of these old outboards out . thanks

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/5/2009 5:20 AM   
Dan S



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Status: offline 		specialk1,
you mean this one?

give Aeromarine a call and ask them if they still have it.

Dan.

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/5/2009 1:17 PM   
Mike2735


 

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Status: offline 		Zippkits just released their new Illusion Tunnel. A very nice boat. I am in the middle of the build right now.

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/5/2009 2:35 PM   
FlogginHarvey


 

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Status: offline 		That thing is so cool! I am glad everything arrived well! Keep me posted on your progress!!!

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/6/2009 1:05 AM   
Outboard Jay


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,
My Illusion is done...have to install RC box...rigging...paint.
What did you do with the sponson wetted running surface? Every tunnel hull I've built has at least 8 to 10 degrees of dead rise...I'm really concerned about cornering...have you had any feed-back from others building the Illusion? Are you going to use Fred Lowe's drive? Keep in touch...maybe berween the two of us, something useful might result!

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/6/2009 3:16 AM   
ob nut


 

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Status: offline 		I'm also in the middle of an Illusion build. While at the Toledo show, Joe had about 30+ secs of vid of the boat running. Boat cornings very well, even with the lack of dead rise. Make sure the CG is set back around 24% or so. I understand the boat does not want to be up around 30% as the smaller tunnels require.


The Aeromarine boat does not turn well, maybe lane 20 or so. I sold mine the year after buying it.

Mike Crawford of Woodstuff Racing also builds a large WOF tunnel for gas.

< Message edited by ob nut -- 7/6/2009 3:17 AM >

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/6/2009 3:41 AM   
specialk1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FlogginHarvey

That thing is so cool! I am glad everything arrived well! Keep me posted on your progress!!!

it did . thank you . just like to try out new F1 till i rebuild the other one .

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/6/2009 3:47 AM   
specialk1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Outboard Jay

Mike,
My Illusion is done...have to install RC box...rigging...paint.
What did you do with the sponson wetted running surface? Every tunnel hull I've built has at least 8 to 10 degrees of dead rise...I'm really concerned about cornering...have you had any feed-back from others building the Illusion? Are you going to use Fred Lowe's drive? Keep in touch...maybe berween the two of us, something useful might result!

Jay

do you have a link for the Illusion . can you post up some pics of your build .

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/6/2009 3:49 AM   
specialk1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan S

specialk1,
you mean this one?

give Aeromarine a call and ask them if they still have it.

Dan.

yea that is the one .

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/7/2009 2:01 AM  1 votes
Joe Petro


 

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Status: offline 		Here is a video of the last test session, flat running surfaces and all.



We believe that this is the best handling gas outboard tunnel in the world.

Anyone have anything better? We would love to see it!

There are only a handfull of Illusions running (but a lot being built!), so the ideal setup is still out there.
We did an extensive amount of testing on hull design, and are now working with stumble blocks to
make the boat turn well, in a predictable and consistant manner.

We continue to refine this setup as experience leads us.

Joe Petro

< Message edited by Joe Petro -- 7/7/2009 2:28 AM >

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/8/2009 1:27 AM   
specialk1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe Petro

Here is a video of the last test session, flat running surfaces and all.



We believe that this is the best handling gas outboard tunnel in the world.

Anyone have anything better? We would love to see it!

There are only a handfull of Illusions running (but a lot being built!), so the ideal setup is still out there.
We did an extensive amount of testing on hull design, and are now working with stumble blocks to
make the boat turn well, in a predictable and consistant manner.

We continue to refine this setup as experience leads us.

Joe Petro

thank you joe .. i will be calling you , i hope my outboard will fit your hull .. this is the other hull im redoing 1/4 amps f1

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 8:24 AM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Joe

I would like to start by congratulating you and thanking you for your input and development in creating a rc Gas tunnel hull. One that seems to have some good potential, seeing it run in the video, although only in a big oval at relative speed.

However I feel that you are being somewhat presumptuous in believing that your boat is "The best in the world" unless you mean the USA.

As a rc boat builder and an absolute lover and ambassador for the sport I feel that you should be more aware and considerate toward all those, past and present, who have and will continue to, in some way offer there gifts and talents in a labour of love in designing and building these boats for all to enjoy.
I say this as one voice, remembering the legend builders like "Miller Agnew to a 10 year old in some garage at home, to-day, dreaming up a future boat that maybe you and I may race, or even be beaten bye.

Any seasoned boat builder will now and tell you that no boat is perfect, and if anything is a preferential choice made by the user considering there budget, likes and application.

There are a number of very nice and very capable rc Gas tunnel hulls available around the world, none claiming to be the best, but rather being the best they can be, all adding there bit to growing this awesome sport, still in its infant stages, with a great future.

I will add, that if your boat requires STUMBLE BLOCKS to take a predictable turn, already I would say from my vast experience with these boats, that you have a problem with the set up. I have written an article on my web www.youngzrcboats.com in the accessory file, which highlights and offers a definite solution to the current problem being exsperienced if you are adjusting the trim angle by tilting the pivot pin.

Just for your record, our boats, go fast, turn tight and predictably, without any ad hoc features, and give many people all over the world great pleasure, as do all the other great hulls that are available.

To ALL who add there bit to this great sport and class "Thank You, well done and please don't stop"


Regards
Dominic Young
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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 9:04 AM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI9JKf0zSY
Hi Guys, some footage of our YPC Gas Tunnel hull with a stock Zenoah, running our course in SA.

I am not that clued up with transferring video from U-tube. If this site does not work look up "Dominic Young's Gas Tunnel", on U-Tube which was filmed by a friend in December 07.
A whole lot more has been done since then, including the leg mod, which has allowed us to run the 90 degree turns both left and right even more aggressively.

Regards
Dominic
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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 9:18 AM   
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Status: offline 		Good post Dominic i agree 100%,and a nice video too looks pretty stable to me .There is no one best in the world of anything out there in my opinion so im with you on that one.Ask ten people which cat ,vee or hydro ,tunnel is the best you will probably get 10 different answers.As regards Joes claim id take it with a pinch of salt mate .I know you have been building these things for some years as ive checked out your website a few times.
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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 2:55 PM   
Joe Petro


 

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Status: offline 		Dominic,

Your'e right, I should better define "best handling gas outboard tunnel in the world" as a hull that won't hook, trip, spin out, flip, roll, dart or do anything else it isn't supposed to do.
ALL of the current gas tunnels (yours included) have a problem turning.
In your video, I did see one good turn, but the rest were hooks and two (almost) spinouts. Unless your South African course looks like the letter "A", with a left turn thrown in.

As for the stumble blocks, I agree 100%. They are indeed a "band aid". That said, the fastest, best handling (nitro) model tunnels all have them. I guess we are all just thick headed...

Don't misunderstand, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, and all that you are doing for this sport.
I just don't think that you, or anyone else has a tunnel hull that handles in a predictable manner.

No, I don't think our $169 hull is perfect, but I still say that it is closer than anyone else at this point.

We need outboard gas tunnels that can turn well at full throttle every time, around an oval course.

The challenge is still out there: Show us something better...

Joe

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 4:40 PM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Joe
Thanks for the responce, and the diagnosis ! LOL
For the record, we dont race the Oval, we race a "M" type, more traditional F1 type course, turning left and right. All the turns in the footage were Predictable and intentional, not sticking to the course, but running a unplanned route for the camera at the time.
If you truly want to go flat out around an oval. I suggest that you modify the leg trim as exsplaind on our web www.youngzrcboats.com "Accesories"
As for the Band Aids, not true to authentic tunnel hull design, But call me a Purist.
Keep up the good work !
Regards
Dominic
YPC

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/15/2009 6:02 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		Joe these guys as in Europe dont race roundy round they have to turn either way because the courses are M shaped courses same as the multi guys do.That means the boats need to turn on a dime at full throttle maybe thats what you are seeing ?.Oval racing i would say is a doddle compaired to having to negotiate an m shaped course with 12 or more other boats.
Mart


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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/17/2009 2:58 PM   
Joe Petro


 

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Status: offline 		We have sold hundreds of boats overseas, and I never knew some run an "M" course!
Thanks for pointing that out.

It's all good!

Joe

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/17/2009 3:51 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: offline 		No worries Joe not many Americans do know,i only found out recently tunnels did too i thought it was just multi or fsrv boats.
Mart
looks like organised chaos to me ,my hat goes off to these guys looks like tough racing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8zqHEDVi78&feature=related

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/18/2009 7:59 AM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Guys, this thread has really evolved from its original subject, but to quote Joe "all is good"
I reckon that we (South Africa) must be one of the few countries who choose to race a "M" type course. This was a natural progression form our National clubs original participation in racing the FSRV inboard subsurface class. We have modified the strict M shape layout slightly, for both the Off-shore classes, (both Cats and V'ees) as well as for the F1 classes allowing for a longer arc from bouys 4 to 1. This allows for the boats to really get there revs up into the main straight and allows for some spectacular low flying around buoy 5.
Most of us have never raced an Oval, although our Gauteng club tried it for a short while, but soon reverted back to the traditional type course.
We are also able to change the course for each event, decided by the race officials, and this also adds a degree of new challenges, breaking the monotony of the same old, same old course.
As with the full scale boat racing around the world, we try to experience the same challenges that they would, as well as presenting similar, tight, challenging even technical racing for the spectators to enjoy.
Given all that I do believe and have been told that the Oval has its very own challenges, which a few of us will realise when we finally grace the shores of the USA to participate in one of your grand events. We were advised to give the largest IMPBA a miss due to low number entries, but will continue to try and realise the best opportunity to visit, not only to participate, but hopefully to encourage some , frome all over the world, to visit our shores in the future to race with us in our beautiful sunny South Africa.
Regards
Dominic

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/18/2009 5:43 PM   
Outboard Jay


 

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Status: offline 		Dominic,
Really enjoy your input...as to the oval course..it's BORING and has turned most of the nitro classes here in the USA into the development of "thingies"...designed for go fast turn right with all sorts of odd-ball devices attached to the hull...shortly after K&B entered the market with their 3.5 OB, I started the Northern California OPC..even before NAMBA recognized OB's as a class...we raced all sorts of courses in 6 to 8 different locales..and never, never just an oval..each CD laid out a course that was imaginitive...none of us knew what we would face..all sorts of naviga-type courses...and sharp left turns, too...coupled with this we included enduros with a required pit stop...usually 7 to 10 minutes...even ran the 7.5'2 and 13's when they were released on the same course...finally NAMBA said we were legitimate... I was lucky enough to establish the 1st US 3.5 record in 1976 of 37.66 in timed runs...then I was stuck with being the 1st NAMBA OB Chairman...Tried for years to get NAMBA to dump the oval..no luck!...I even raced with third trim alla the AMPS set-up ...didn't work too well on the big, sweeping oval turns...I really think the "let's relax, have fun and enjoy" has disappeared, and secondly I am all for scale hulls with correct logos, etc. that are duplicates of the their full size counterparts.
Hope I haven't bored you all with this little California-NAMBA history!

Go OB!!!

Jay

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/18/2009 10:04 PM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi OB
Certainly not boring, besides giving us a brief insight to the history of OB tunnel hull racing in the USA as it was and as it is now, you really tugged on my heart strings mentioning K&B. I have hand written letters in files from "The Man" John Brodbeck, who always returned every letter (pre e-mail) I wrote to him back then, and even he was never to wise to listen to any suggestion I would make, always willingly participating in my thoughts and projects.
As for the scale look, I to like it when the boat looks the part, not only in its visual appeal, but also in its technical attributes. As you put it so eloquently "Thingies" don't work for me either. I still dont quite understand why so many people want to go as fast as unreasonably and unrealistically possible by adding all kinds of odd add on to there set up, rather than taking up the challenge of racing a hull as its "full scale counterpart is permitted" and learn to set it up, and drive it accordingly.
The one area where we need to be prepared to differentiate however, is in the look of what we bolt on the transom. As much as we all wish that we could have something that looks like the latest full scale EFI Merc. it just is not practical and most importantly, not affordable. I am a student of Miller Agnew (he being scale to the T) and can even recall standing in his home (workshop) in 1996 looking at his prototype 1/4 scale outfit and being absolutely blown out the water, however I dont believe that if we all were to acquire such an amazing scale looking OB unit that we would be were we are to-day, in number.
Even though we have been running the Lawless and Morty leg to date in SA, I currently have focused allot of my time and research in developing a more affordable OB leg for our local and National distribution, due to the cost of the import OB units making this great class only available to the fortunate few who could afford it after adding the currency exchange, shipping, VAT and clearance charges.
The close to scale "Two Brothers" unit from Europe cost as much as what we can supply a complete RTR unit for, everything included and built.
The great news is that even thou these legs, Lawless, Morty and YPC, don't look the Scale part, they sure allow the boat to look the part when it is on the water, this for more boaters than what would otherwise be possible.
I do think that we should move away from the term "Model 1/4 Scale F1 Gas O/B tunnel" to something like "Radio Controlled Gas Outboard Tunnel" making the definition/title more authentic to it being what it actually is, rather than intimating that it should be a replica of something that in reality, for reasons of practicality and especially affordability it just cannot be.
Regards
Dominic
YPC


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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/18/2009 11:09 PM   
Outboard Jay


 

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Status: offline 		Dominic,
Thanks for the response...Yes, J. Brodbeck and Jack Garcia were "king-pins" for the K&B's...In my NAMBA district 9, gas boats of all types (except the OB) have taken over..only a few entries in OB nitro..nitro still very active in S. Cal and the state of Washington...I've read of the upcoming rejuvenation of AMPS gas OB, but I think also they would be beyond affordability for most.
In 2006, I wrote some rules for the Gas OB based on rules written by Jerry Dunlap for the nitro quarter scale he proposed in 1964...the rules were batted about but never gained popular significence because so few in the USA even recognized gas OB as legitimate.
I called the rules: GRAND PRIX QUARTER SCALE GAS OUTBOARD TUNNEL That was a mouthful, so I shortened it to: GPO (GRAND PRIX OUTBOARD) GPO was short, easy on the tongue..even ole' guys like me could remember it easily. Grand Prix attached to Outboard would be understood to pertain to gas throughout our hobby/sport.
I've been running the Lawless..but there are only a handful of gassers... and few on the west coast...so I have little feed-back.
I have 2 hulls I designed for gas...and am just finishing an Illusion...Questions: !. the Illusion has no dead rise built into the wetted running sponson bottom...what's your take?
2. What prop works well with your set-up?
3. Lawless: what do you do for maintenance/longevity for the flex shaft?
Nice picture of you and your hull...(I hate computors...but great for this kind of exchange..)
...haven't learned yet how to download pix.
Stay well!!!, Jay

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RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/19/2009 7:40 AM   
YPC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Jay, I quite like the "Grand Prix OB Tunnel"
The nice thing about these boats is that you don't need many on the water to have a great race. I have lost count of the many hours that I have, running R&D tests and racing our hulls, but the amazing thing is whether I am running purely by myself on the water or in a race with only one or two other boats, It is still a serious rush. Running these boats on the edge is very exciting. I have tried racing a Gas Cat that I own in a few of our club races, but besides the thrill of the competitiveness in the race, I find it rather two dimensional (Boring)
Getting back to AMPS, I have an actual video cassette of the Legend "Miller Agnew" launching his Quarterscale and running it at a local ditanam. One of my treasures. I dont think however that even if the AMPS outboard leg where produced, that it would be affordable, but more so practical, especially if it is to be raced.
I can't comment on the "Illusion" not ever having seeing one up close or racing, but I have seen some footage of it running in a Oval coarse, looking rather comfortable.
With regards to the Lawless leg we have two major mods for it.
The one is running a flex shaft that we have made to suite a Thick walled brass tube that we fit to replace the Teflon tube. Our take is that there is to much play between the flex shaft and the Teflon wall which allows the cable to wind up far easier. With less tolerance between the wall and the cable as in the brass tube, the cable definitely lasts longer. The Teflon tube ,in my opinion also retains the heat whereas the brass tube allows the heat build up in the flex shaft to pass from the tube to the aluminium leg.
It is also important to use a oil rather than a grease with a flex shaft, as most greases only lubricate the outer cable, not the inner windings, where most of the heat is generated. We run a simple "Oiler" using a good quality oil, feeding a minimum of oil to the leg, about 150ml (5 ounces) for an entire race day. With all this I find that our cables last much longer and generally only change a worn cable after the third race meeting (3 months), keeping the worn cable for all my practice runs whilst doing R&D.essorie
The greatest realisation has been learning how adverse the effects of adjusting the trim angle at the pivot point is, especially on the bigger Gas leg. Since we have come up with our very simple mod kit, which takes an evening to complete, it is like we reinvented the wheel and say to all that it is a must.
I have done my best to explain it all on our web page www.youngzrcboats.com under "accessories" go have a read and please feel free to ask further questions if it is not clear.
I can only assure you that the performance of our boat on the water "In the turns" improved ten fold.
I have run quite a few variuos props and although some are faster, the ABC 2714 prop is great, especially around the race course.
Regards
Dominic
YPC

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< Message edited by YPC -- 7/20/2009 7:03 PM >

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(in reply to Outboard Jay)
       Post #: 24

RE: what 1/4 F1 gas tunnel hulls sold in the usa ? - 7/19/2009 8:38 AM   
YPC


 

Posts: 138
Score: 105
Joined: 5/21/2009
Last Login: 3/20/2010
From: Cape Towm, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		Just adding some more pics of the Lawless mod. Either a upgrade that is available from us at YPC, see prices on web, or simply make the plates up.
We supply the hardware with a step by step photo instruction page.
The gist of it all is that when you trim the leg as it is, changing the pivot pin angle, the prop actually moves in an arc when you turn the leg, raising the prop out of the water when trimmed negative. DISASTER.
With the kit fitted, the leg can be adjusted, leaving the pivot pin perpendicular to the running surface of the sponsons, the angle can then separately be adjusted, ensuring that the prop thrust line stays constant in the turns.AWESOME !


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