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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 3:14 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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Status: offline 		Andrew sent this email and it was posted on another site:

quote:


Hey man,
Just a quick update to let you guys know that the top 8 have been selected for the FAI finals tomorrow.
Tomorrow is a fresh contest with the top 8 starting off at ZERO!
Top 8 are:
Mike Klein
Todd Blose
Mark Leseberg
Don Szczur
Dave Lockhart
Brett Wickizer
Chip Hyde
Andrew Jesky


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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 3:19 AM   
vbortone


 

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VB

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 7:17 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

Alright guys, signing in from the Holiday inn in Muncie. Sorry for not getting more reports done for you guys but its has been pretty busy around here. We just finished up composing our unknowns. The flying has been awesome as well as the weather. Low 80 degree days and light winds. Not much more we could ask for. As promised the Top 8 Masters Finalist.

Tony Frackoviak
Arch Stafford
George Asteris
Dave Snow
Verne Koester
Brandon Landry
Stephen Byrd
Jerry Budd

I did not catch the other finals score but congrats to those. The flying I have seen this week has been awesome. Everyone is flying great. More reports later. Now its time to fly through the unknown's with my stick plane then bed.

Andrew


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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 7:18 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 8:48 AM   
Silent-AV8R



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Smith

You are fast, Bill!



My wife agrees with you, sadly.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 7:36 PM   
can773



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Status: online 		Masters Prelims,

For some reason I am not able to rotate these, so you will have to twist your neck

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 7:47 PM   
Pomales


 

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 9:00 PM   
AAbdu


 

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 9:33 PM   
RCBruski65


 

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Status: offline 		And in only one round did one guy win the round all others had ties.

Tim

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 9:39 PM   
mjfrederick


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCBruski65

And in only one round did one guy win the round all others had ties.

Tim


Each round was flown on 2 flight lines. They weren't ties, they were winners on separate flight lines. If you look, every round has 2 1000's. All the other pilots are normalized to their respective winner's raw scores.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/17/2009 10:24 PM   
RCBruski65


 

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/18/2009 6:14 AM   
Don Szczur



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Status: offline 		OK, Dave is standing right here and says he will in fact be the event director next year....

By the way, Hats off to Don Frederick and Linda Jesky did a great job with scoring. Many thanks. We had score sheets back almost instantaneously. Rounds were posted promptly.

All the best,
Don

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/18/2009 5:33 PM   
BHolsten


 

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Status: offline 		Congrats Gents,........................ To all the new Champions and all the competitors.

Archie, Dale A, Chris M, George A (George A,...look forward to practicing with you!)

Archie,..I have my 14MZ installed in the BM,.........any suggestions here.


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Advantage Hobby Fliton Field Rep/Custom Airframes Of America/Dragon Fire Customs/Duralite/Guardian America.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/18/2009 5:43 PM   
Jeff Boyd 2



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Status: offline 		Arch and Tony's scores ! ! . . you wouldn't want to sneeze while penciling a score . . could have made a big difference ! !

Nice flying guys . .

Cheers, JB

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/18/2009 8:52 PM   
jetmech43


 

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Status: offline 		Now if someone would list all the equipment used, always cool to see what everybody uses

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 4:30 AM   
Jeff Boyd 2



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jetmech43

Now if someone would list all the equipment used, always cool to see what everybody uses


Some of it's over on here . . http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8944257

Cheers, JB

< Message edited by Jeff Boyd 2 -- 7/19/2009 4:41 AM >

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 9:13 AM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		I heard someone failed the weight in Masters (I won't mention the name as I like hime) and Dave let him fly with lighter packs. He happened to come back on the last day (5th and 6th flight), and make the finals with an over weight plane. Dave shoulda weighed after the 6th flight like he did last year. Doesn't seem right that you can fly an overweight plane to make it to the finals, then switch your setup to something else in the finals. Had I stayed for the finals, and protested (which I'm not sure I would have as I like the pilot), I coulda flown the finals. Not sure why we don't stick to the rules at the national event. But, that's the nats. Was great fun either way. Not sure I will ever drive the 2360 miles again though. That was a drag. If you haven't been to the nats, it is so much fun! Just gotta hang with the D7 crew! lol

See you guys next year!

Chris

< Message edited by patternflyer1 -- 7/19/2009 9:30 AM >

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 9:31 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

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Status: offline 		Yes, that's kind of messed up, but flying an airplane with changes to the setup is penalty enough, I would think.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 9:42 AM   
Derek.Koopowitz


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Smith

Yes, that's kind of messed up, but flying an airplane with changes to the setup is penalty enough, I would think.


Rules are rules - the weighing should've taken place prior to the end of the 6th round in Masters prelims. No excuses.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 10:08 AM   
patternflyer1



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Status: offline 		I agree! Not sure why an AMA event caters so much to FAI! They got to fly 1 person at a time (not that I have a problem with this, time wise, it worked out great), and they weighed on Thursday after the contest. Advanced weighed in the crazy wind. Masters weighed on Friday morning. Had I know about the weight issue and protested, I would have been in 8th in the finals and the results would be different. But oh well. Thinking of not wasting the money and time next year if it's not fair. Hopefully Dave can follow the rules.
I just can't understand why rules aren't followed. Amazes me. It's the fricken nats. And rules aren't followed. Scores should be thrown out, and everyone should move up one place. Unbelievable IMO! But oh well. At least it was a crazy amount of fun as usual!
As I stated before though, the pilot i am talking about is probably one of the nicest guys at the nats. I mean no disrespect to him. He had some hard luck and borrowed a plane and flew the heck out of it on the last prelim day in the crazy wind.

Don't get me wrong, it is what it is. I'm not crying about it. Just amazed that rules aren't followed by Dave at the nats.

Chris

< Message edited by patternflyer1 -- 7/19/2009 10:10 AM >

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 10:09 AM   
Ryan Smith


 

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Status: offline 		I'm not doubting for a second the validity of the rules, nor am I making excuses for them to not be enforced. I'm merely trying to shoehorn some moderately relevant information in.

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 10:10 AM   
Steve Neu


 

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Status: offline 		Here is an old rule that needs fixing by the FAI. The nitro planes are weighed "without" fuel and the electrics are weighed with batteries both should use the same rule. Weight "ready to fly" should be the rule. The F3C heli rules have fixed this problem already.

Steve

< Message edited by Steve Neu -- 7/19/2009 10:12 AM >

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 10:57 AM   
jbudd



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Smith

Yes, that's kind of messed up, but flying an airplane with changes to the setup is penalty enough, I would think.


Not even close. As I was told later, he changed to a smaller, lower capacity battery, certainly nothing that significantly affected the setup.

But there is a bigger issue here. Not enforcing the rules is absolute horse s&*%, and (unfortunately) completely in character with how the Nats has been run the last several years (case in point - this happened last year in another class). This year the Masters finalists planes were weighed after the first round of the finals, when they should have been weighed after flying was complete on Thursday, the same as FAI. That way if someone doesn't make weight they would be disqualified, their qualifying scores removed from the system (so as to not affect the preliminary results), the point totals recalculated, and the new top 8 fly the next day. The errant competitor doesn't get multiple opportunities to "change" the plane until they make weight, they are supposed to show up with planes that already do, and if they don't, they should expect to be disqualified. Historically, the "official" scales are made available several times during the week for the competitors to check their planes, so there should be no excuses. I don't know if they were this year, one can ask Ron van Putte if they were, he usually handles that.

Don't misinterpret my comments above as blaming the pilot, he did nothing wrong (I suspect he didn't know that the plane was over weight as it was borrowed from an FAI pilot friend of his). In fact, he's a great pilot and is just a super nice guy. The fundamental problem is that the Contest Management didn't even know the very basics in how to handle the situation, and in fact they laid the foundation for this to happen with some very poor decisions made the night before (several of the Masters Finalists expressed their concerns with the Contest Management decisions about when and where they were to weigh in for this very reason, but their objections were ignored).

Also, don't think I'm writing this because I finished behind the pilot in question in the final standings - I'm not. The reality is that I "tail-slid" my stall turn with 1/2 rolls in the last round of the finals, and probably should have finished last due to it!

Unfortunately the #9 Masters qualifier got screwed, as happened to another Masters pilot in 2002, nearly happened to yet another Masters pilot in 2004, and also happened to several FAI pilots over the same time period. The Contest Management is ultimately responsible for properly executing the contest according to the rules, and in this case they failed. They owe a certain pilot a BIG apology, and the rest of us a recommittment to get it right in the future.

One final comment: I have read statements on the Nats FAI thread about how well the Nats were run this year. In FAI that may be true. In Masters, however, we are a long way from being able to make the same observation.


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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 1:55 PM   
Jeff Boyd 2



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Neu

Here is an old rule that needs fixing by the FAI. The nitro planes are weighed ''without'' fuel and the electrics are weighed with batteries both should use the same rule. Weight ''ready to fly'' should be the rule. The F3C heli rules have fixed this problem already.

Steve


I am on record here at RCU as having commented on this numerous times .

Most Glo powered planes would LAND over the 5000gm (5050gm) weight limit. E.g. Onda's Narlar has been posted on RCU as weighing 4950 DRY ! ! (or a close thereabouts). He would have to land with less than 100ml in the tank to equal an EP's LEGAL weight. That's cutting it fine IMO. Onda's take-off weight would be greater than 5600gms I suspect.

In any event, a EP bare airframe must start at typically 2300gms or less to make the weight, with ENORMOUS care taken in the assembly and equipment selection to meet the tough weight limit (IMO). A higher bare airframe weight requires even more care and more EXPENSIVE equipment ! Choosing glo power affords a lateral amount of room to move here !

It's difficult to come up with a formula I suspect. However, I agree . . the rules just aren't quite right at the moment ! !

Cheers, JB

< Message edited by Jeff Boyd 2 -- 7/19/2009 2:21 PM >

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RE: USA AMA NSRCA Pattern Nats Muncie Indiana - 7/19/2009 5:04 PM   
BHolsten


 

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Status: offline 		Hate to bring it up again,..........................


12lb rule would allow for more equality between the EP'S and GP's,...IMOP and it may perhaps help further grow some technology on both sides.



Bill Holsten

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