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Heli - 7/13/2003 7:33:38 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Yea dont know where to throw them in I guess possibly with the IMAC stuff do to the skill level needed to fly them safe or down with the jets or giants.

Joe

_____________________________

Great War R/C
Http://www.proflooney.net

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 76

IMAC - 7/14/2003 4:09:00 AM   
Erich_F



Posts: 161
Joined: 4/29/2003
From: Odessa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		It's funny that none of you seem to know anything about IMAC. IMAC is NOT just a bunch of runway hovering, tumbling crazy flying. That would be the flying pizza box and SPAD gang. IMAC, in it's true sense, is PRECISION SCALE aerobatics. No different in operation than pattern. Granted, there are plenty folks out there flying 33% + aircraft like funfly planes, but most of them do not fly IMAC.

So, don't paint IMAC, nor helicopter pilots, as a bunch of radical schmucks. IMAC is VERY safe, if not more so than pattern, with gas engines and redundant electronics. Personally, I have no real desire to torque roll my big Extra...I fly my 3D with a helicopter. My Extra is purely a precision flying machine that wins contests.

So, in your little world of tiered rates, IMAC would be near center right next to pattern. FUNFLY planes, be they .35 glow powered, or 150cc behemoth's, would be at the top. A 40% Extra that's not flown in a scale manner, with some obvious allowable excursions, is just a giant funfly or flying pizza box.

On the issue of pilot certifications...who would be the fat cats allowing anyone to progress in skill? As things seem, since I fly 3D helicopters and 33% IMAC, I'm the best there is. Maybe you all should bow down to the likes of me before you are allowed to advance from your menial .60 size sport bird?

Certifications would stifle the hobby more than I could imagine. Talk about going back to rubber free flight days. It's all anyone will be able to do without seeking out ten signatures from some "better" pilots with a Neon Pink and pocka-dotted AAA+ AMA card with a white stripe down the middle. I assume anyone caught practicing for the next "certification" would be dealt with by public caning and 90 day banishment from the club field.

But that's OK, since apparently I'm the most dangerous and skilled pilot at the field, given the criteria spelled out here on this thread. I also charge $38 per hour for "instruction", so you too, can join the ranks of me.

Frankly, this is all paranoia gone amok. There will not be tiered rates. Their will not be certifications. Give it a rest. The minute AMA tries such inane ideas for real, will find themselves with a million dollar house and no one to come to the party. If people would just shut up and watch the free market do it's magic.

I'm going to go terrorize my club with some precision loops and hammerheads now...

Erich

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 77

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 4:32:20 AM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		Erich_F

This might be a really good investment of your time and money:

http://www.calm.com.au/pages/02pp10.shtml

JR

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 78

BIG planes,,, - 7/14/2003 5:14:13 AM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1570
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		should be paying more AMA and little planes should pay less.

BTW Erich, did you happen to read this?,,,

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=950849

Then click on the link, in the very 1st post, of that thread.

BVV

< Message edited by Bill Vargas -- Jul 14 2003 12:55AM >

_____________________________

If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 79

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 7:18:49 AM   
Erich_F



Posts: 161
Joined: 4/29/2003
From: Odessa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Great, some damn idiot nearly gets his arm cut off by a 22 inch prop (mine's 26), and that's the best you can offer?

What he do? Fall in it? This isn't the thread for Darwin Awards.

I wonder how many people lose digits and eyes from small, sport models every year? I received more cuts from a .40 sized Extra more than anything.


And JR, very pointed comments you made. Next time try to stick to the topic, rather than send ill-conceived attempts at insult. I'm as calm and collected as they come. I'm just laughing at all you chicken littles out there.

I think I'll throw myself up to my elbows into my Prop and see if I can make the local news, too.

Erich

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 80

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 7:36:26 AM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		Erich_F

Please don't let me delay you or stand in your way.

< Message edited by J_R -- Jul 14 2003 2:42AM >

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 81

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 7:43:00 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erich_F
Great, some damn idiot nearly gets his arm cut off by a 22 inch prop (mine's 26), and that's the best you can offer?

What he do? Fall in it? This isn't the thread for Darwin Awards.

I wonder how many people lose digits and eyes from small, sport models every year? I received more cuts from a .40 sized Extra more than anything.


And JR, very pointed comments you made. Next time try to stick to the topic, rather than send ill-conceived attempts at insult. I'm as calm and collected as they come. I'm just laughing at all you chicken littles out there.

I think I'll throw myself up to my elbows into my Prop and see if I can make the local news, too.

Erich [/QUOTE]

Erich,

One of my students insistED on working on his running engine without the benefit of restraint. He got lucky and only got $200 worth of stitches in his knee. Now he is going to get the chance to unbecome on of my students when I lay the law down next time we go flying. He WILL do things I approve as safe or he will have to find another instructor. You see the choice in the matter is MINE. If you sneer at pilot certification, I will present this fellow to you as your next student as he has already burned out two prior to me.

I am as frustrated as you are, but I also know that WE MUST find a workable solution or be squashed like fleas under the authority presented by the TSA, HSA, and FAA. If you question the authority those folks have and apply, go read the post by the guy who had the sheriff show up at his field ready to arrest him for flying his large scale model a few days after 9/11. Or look up the NOTAM that GROUNDED R/C planes within some distance of Salt Lake City this winter.

I very strongly suspect that we had better put together a plan or have one shoved down our throats. The question is NOT how certifications will slow the growth of the hobby, but will they SAVE the hobby.

Now if it was YOU in Lake Charles playing target, I understand your angst but do not apologize. The problem with folks that hover in the pattern is that they deny the rest of us crazies equal access to the air and runway. If complaints about that bother you, I might suggest something a bit less friendly than has already been seen.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 82

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 7:47:29 AM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		Jim

What indication do you have that this guy every taught anyone anything? Ship him a mirror and let him get on with his Narcissus act.

JR

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 83

Re: IMAC - 7/14/2003 10:32:33 AM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1570
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erich_F
It's funny that none of you seem to know anything about IMAC. IMAC is NOT just a bunch of runway hovering, tumbling crazy flying. That would be the flying pizza box and SPAD gang. IMAC, in it's true sense, is PRECISION SCALE aerobatics. No different in operation than pattern. Granted, there are plenty folks out there flying 33% + aircraft like funfly planes, but most of them do not fly IMAC.

So, don't paint IMAC, nor helicopter pilots, as a bunch of radical schmucks. IMAC is VERY safe, if not more so than pattern, with gas engines and redundant electronics. Personally, I have no real desire to torque roll my big Extra...I fly my 3D with a helicopter. My Extra is purely a precision flying machine that wins contests.

So, in your little world of tiered rates, IMAC would be near center right next to pattern. FUNFLY planes, be they .35 glow powered, or 150cc behemoth's, would be at the top. A 40% Extra that's not flown in a scale manner, with some obvious allowable excursions, is just a giant funfly or flying pizza box.

On the issue of pilot certifications...who would be the fat cats allowing anyone to progress in skill? As things seem, since I fly 3D helicopters and 33% IMAC, I'm the best there is. Maybe you all should bow down to the likes of me before you are allowed to advance from your menial .60 size sport bird?

Certifications would stifle the hobby more than I could imagine. Talk about going back to rubber free flight days. It's all anyone will be able to do without seeking out ten signatures from some "better" pilots with a Neon Pink and pocka-dotted AAA+ AMA card with a white stripe down the middle. I assume anyone caught practicing for the next "certification" would be dealt with by public caning and 90 day banishment from the club field.

But that's OK, since apparently I'm the most dangerous and skilled pilot at the field, given the criteria spelled out here on this thread. I also charge $38 per hour for "instruction", so you too, can join the ranks of me.

Frankly, this is all paranoia gone amok. There will not be tiered rates. Their will not be certifications. Give it a rest. The minute AMA tries such inane ideas for real, will find themselves with a million dollar house and no one to come to the party. If people would just shut up and watch the free market do it's magic.

I'm going to go terrorize my club with some precision loops and hammerheads now...

Erich [/QUOTE]

Erich, Tiered rates already exist and AMA is thinking about expanding them a weee bit more,,, sorta like taking it to the next level.

Let me know when you break out of the Basic imac class and I'll teach you a cool way to fly imac,,, for Free


BV

_____________________________

If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 84

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/14/2003 5:21:06 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7820
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		While I agree that hovering IMAC planes are a potential safety threat, my observation of an experienced pilot with a sudden gust of wind tossing the plane toward the flight line, is that most will simply chop the throttle and suffer damage to their plane instead of hitting people in the pits. I recall a jet going through the roof of a house at one of the Top Gun scale events. Don't know how much damage a Heli would afflict, they are usually going fairly slow when they crash, and the blades seem t break fairly easily.

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 85

IMAC - 7/14/2003 9:04:12 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		BTW I wasnt trashing IMAC fliers as was hinted at as i was able to goto the JR challenge a couple times and really enjoyed watching them. My point is although there is a small portion of that sig that is responsible there is a majority of weekend fliers that aren't. Thus the IMAC guys are calculated in just as the giant warbirds and jet guys are. there are a lot of us that take every saftey precaution possible. checking planes at field before we fly, going over our planes at home and making sure everythings tight and our batteries are good etc etc. the problem is you get a bunch of other members of our Sigs that dont care thus that reflects on all of us. So Erich you can feel you are unjustly picked on well so do the rest of us. remember the old saying, it takes just 1 idiot to ruin it for us all. thats what happens with the Imac guys you get several idiots at events andtheir home fields like to hover and try all kinds of aerobatics they dont know what they are doing (seen tons of crashes because of stuff like that) and it gives you all a bad name. it is one thing to fly a sequence and pattern it is another to just fly like an idiot all over the place especially with other planes flying a reg pattern.

So dont take it as a personal attack on those that fly responibly its just a fact that you are caught up in the same thing all us other responsible flyers are. The few morons ruin it for all of us.
Joe

_____________________________

Great War R/C
Http://www.proflooney.net

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 86

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/15/2003 12:09:45 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sport_Pilot
While I agree that hovering IMAC planes are a potential safety threat, my observation of an experienced pilot with a sudden gust of wind tossing the plane toward the flight line, is that most will simply chop the throttle and suffer damage to their plane instead of hitting people in the pits. I recall a jet going through the roof of a house at one of the Top Gun scale events. Don't know how much damage a Heli would afflict, they are usually going fairly slow when they crash, and the blades seem t break fairly easily. [/QUOTE]

I was told by a beater rider that the safest place to be when one of those birds goes in was on board. Not being certified as a fling wing guy and familiar with the mess fixed wings make, I asked why. He told me that when a helicopter goes in, all the parts tend to fly away.

Your observation about the blades has been made to me in the exact same vein.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 87

RE: Tiered AMA Rates - 12/21/2003 5:51:53 PM   
Rambo-RCU


 

Posts: 205
Joined: 10/29/2002
From: Flatwoods, KY, USA
Status: offline 		If there that hard up because of the bigger planes supposedly higher claim costs, by the way I've never seen any conclusive proof! Then feel free to keep my magazine subscription. BTW is'nt cost analysis what insurance companies base there extra costs for that Corvette owner on?I say they don't have a shread of evidence proving any of that instead have possibly found a way of sucking more from it's clients without a strait across increase.We really need some compitition in this field and I'm truly sorry if this offends anyone.

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 88

RE: Tiered AMA Rates - 12/23/2003 6:38:18 PM   
CAPtain232



Posts: 2467
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Waynetown, IN, USA
Status: offline 		If the AMA wants to start REPLACING my planes when they bite the dust (like AUTO INSURANCE), then they can raise my rates, but until then....they can take this little bitty 2 cent card and............well all I have to say is I am dropping the AMA next year. I fly where it is nice and open and the only way something is going to get hurt is if I can see 5 miles away and FLY RIGHT IN TO IT......I am sick and tired of this organization that is supposed to help PRESERVE this hobby and all it seems like they are interested in doing is making it harder to be involved in it.

_____________________________

CUSTOM GIANT SCALE BUILDER
PROTOTYPE MODEL BUILDING for full scale aircraft
current project can be seen at http://www.geversaircraft.com

(in reply to jonkoppisch)
       Post #: 89