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Tiered AMA Rates - 6/26/2003 10:48:06 AM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1570
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone read this months DB's artical?

Multitiered AMA Rates are on the horizon,,, flying big, flying high and fast is gonna cost you more!

Make no difference to me,,, but just curious how this will affect others that fall into one of those categories.


BV

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Tiered AMA Rates - 6/26/2003 3:36:30 PM   
Geistware



Posts: 12946
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Locust Grove, GA, USA
Status: offline 		How do you enforce the tier system? If I pay for a larger plane and crash a smaller on, do I get a refund? If I pay for smaller plane coverage and crash a big one, will my claim be denied?

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Re: Tiered AMA Rates - 6/26/2003 6:34:18 PM   
Gordon Mc



Posts: 6818
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: San Jose, CA,
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Vargas
Anyone read this months DB's artical?

[/QUOTE]

Yup - there's already a thread here in the clubhouse, with a fair amount of discussion about this. See http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/tm.asp?m=893426

Gordonn

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 3

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/6/2003 7:04:38 PM   
Diablo-RCU


 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: Hammond, IN, USA
Status: offline 		They ought to have categories just like car insurance.
The crashers pay the high rate.
The flyers pay the low rate.

Obviously, teenagers should pay the most.
Old flyers should have to take a test every year to make sure they still are capable of flying (just like their driver's license).


Good luck enforcing it.......hire the R/C police.

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 4

tiered rates - 7/7/2003 4:32:18 AM   
jmodguy


 

Posts: 265
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: zionsville, IN,
Status: offline 		this is ridiculous. Hope ama will get some serious competition out of this one...

Jeff Stultz

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       Post #: 5

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 5:33:16 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		How do they plan on accounting for life members that already payed for the rest of their lives? Are they going to say, oh that was only for a .40 size plane!

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Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 5:59:29 PM   
C_Watkins



Posts: 1069
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Douglasville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diablo
They ought to have categories just like car insurance.
The crashers pay the high rate.
The flyers pay the low rate.
[/QUOTE]

Only problem is, that isn't exactly how it works with car insurance.
You don't have to crash... if you're in a category that crashes a lot, statistically,
you pay more, whether you've ever had an accident or not. Also, if you
drive a sports car, or a car considered to be a hotrod, you pay more, whether you
ever had a crash or not. People are wanting to say how safe jets or 40% planes are,
but if AMA takes a stance like auto insurers do, it won't matter. You pay more for
high-performance applications, even if you've never had an accident in your life.

Liability insurance on a Corvette, is more than on a Chevette. That's just the way it goes.
More potential for speed = more likely to speed = more likely to cause increased damage,
in the event of an accident = higher premiums, in their minds, is all I can figure.

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
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Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 6:48:40 PM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1570
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I wonder what will happen when a guy gets insured for a 40 sized plane, flies a jet thing and has an accident. (I wonder what kind of an impact this will have for those that fly Giant Scale "torry pine" size gliders?)

Will AMA shut the door on him because he wasn t properly insured?

Who's gonna play the role of "checking" to make sure that you've got the right insurance for the plane you brought out to fly?

Is AMA listening to the Questions of others and do they have answers yet?


BV

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If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

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Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 7:51:49 PM   
Matt Kirsch



Posts: 7079
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		The whole point of AMA insurance is to make it easy to determine if a pilot is covered. Flash the right color card, and everyone knows you're covered.

Who's going to administer and police a tiered system? I'm sure the AMA will expect the club officers to do it. As a club officer, I know of a few creative places to tell them where to stuff that.

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 9

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 7:58:09 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		Hi Bill

As Dave Brown admitted, he has floated the idea of tiered rates before and been hammered. Here is part of the reason why.

In 2002 the commercial insurance policy cost the AMA $768,191. Keeping in mind that about half of all claims are created by 'trip and fall' incidents (thus being shared by all flyer's equally), that means that the amount to be tiered is about $384,000. With about 140,000 adult members, out of the 170,000 total members, to offset the costs it comes to about $2.74 per member. In addition, the self insured portion of the insurance comes to something around $6 per member, half of which would be $3, for a total to be tiered of about $6 per member.

If you were to charge the indoor rubber guys, say, $1 for insurance, and , say, the jets twice the going rate.. $12 per year (use your own numbers if you don't like mine), you would have dues of $53 for indoor rubber and $64 for a jet jockey, saving the indoor guy $5 and costing the jets $6. The 'average' flyer would still pay $58.

The hassle comes at the field. Someone is going to have to stand there and check virtually every flight to see that the pilot has the proper license to fly his plane. We would need a full time cop to keep the club out of hot water. I think most of us would agree that it is simply not worth the effort at the club level.

In addition, it might or might not require additional people at HQ to administer the program. This might drive up costs.

JR

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       Post #: 10

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 11:21:50 PM   
smokingcrater


 

Posts: 2353
Joined: 9/20/2002
From: Up north, ND, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]proper license to fly his plane. [/QUOTE]

AMA isn't a license, not even close... (at least not in the US yet, just wait though...)

anyway, AMA is insurance, you don't have to police it because people simply won't have insurance if they fly in a class they aren't insured for. Any signups for a club should include a liability waiver as standard fare anyway, so the liability burden is on the individual.


Example... I just bought a motorcycle, have my motorcycle license, but am not even going to think of taking it out on the streets, I don't have insurance for it yet... (yes, it is somewhat different because veh liab insurance is a law, but still self governing because of the consequences...)

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       Post #: 11

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/7/2003 11:31:42 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		rkramer

Hmmmmmmmm

Take out your AMA card, look in the lower left corner under your number. What do you see? Have you ever read the AMA by-laws?

JR

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       Post #: 12

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/8/2003 2:03:00 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Vargas
I wonder what will happen when a guy gets insured for a 40 sized plane, flies a jet thing and has an accident. (I wonder what kind of an impact this will have for those that fly Giant Scale "torry pine" size gliders?)

Will AMA shut the door on him because he wasn t properly insured?

Who's gonna play the role of "checking" to make sure that you've got the right insurance for the plane you brought out to fly?

Is AMA listening to the Questions of others and do they have answers yet?


BV [/QUOTE]

Actually Bill they do have SOME answers.

It turns out that there really are several different enforcement issues with tiered AMA rates. Since they are not clearly soluble and can be confusing they actually increase the workload of the field police, er I mean club officers. That makes them unlikely.

I have spoken with some on the EC and they are and have become aware of the workload that the AMA has put off onto the shoulders of club officers. That is probably the biggest reason that tiered rates will probably never happen.

This is one of the reasons that the new program for introductory memberships is gong to always expire at the end of the month. This was also the reason that AMA did not move to floating renewals which would spread the costs around the entire year but hammer the club officers.

The real answer is that many on the AMA EC DO listen.

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Jim Branaum AMA 1428

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Tiered AMA Rates - 7/8/2003 2:09:53 AM   
Erich_F



Posts: 161
Joined: 4/29/2003
From: Odessa, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I think I'm goin to get into Full Scale Kit Planes. I bet the hassles are much less in dealing with the FAA and insurance companies, than the AMA.


Tougue in Cheek,

Erich

(in reply to Bill Vargas)
       Post #: 14

Tiered AMA Rates - 7/8/2003 2:31:43 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erich_F
I think I'm goin to get into Full Scale Kit Planes. I bet the hassles are much less in dealing with the FAA and insurance companies, than the AMA.


Tougue in Cheek,

Erich [/QUOTE]

Glutton!

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Jim Branaum AMA 1428

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Tiered AMA Rates - 7/8/2003 2:46:19 AM   
JohnW



Posts: 1770
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I understand the idea behind tiered rates. Most insurance is handled this way, ie, auto, home, life, etc. I don't have a problem paying more for my insurance if