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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/26/2003 12:39:52 PM   
MRMADDMAXX


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I am building a new dominator and i will need help along the way as i dont want this one to turn out like my friends. i am currently assembling the wing Can i add a carbon fiber rod to the wing to increase strength as this plane will run with a nelson in the future after its madien voyage on a tt pro 40? i will keep updating and post daily

Questions comments post them here

< Message edited by MRMADDMAXX -- Jun 26 2003 7:46AM >

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 3:22:25 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I wouldn't use a rod. I'd use some CF tow or the premade CF sheet stuff that's about .007 thick. I'd use a strip full span about an inch wide at the high point of the airfoil on top and bottom of the wing. I'm assuming it's a sheeted foam wing of course. Lay the CF on the skin after you have wetted out the skin and then put a little more epoxy on the CF. I am not sure about the building sequence for the dominator but I prefer to join the bare cores first and then sheet them full span. You could also put some glass cloth on the skins in the center section internally. That will reduce the finishing time not having to blend the heavier cloth on the outside of the wing. I'd still use a layer of light cloth on the outside of the center section.
I hope this makes sense!
For what it's worth, I talked to Lanier the other day and they said the Predator wing is plenty strong for Nelson engines. I haven't destroyed one yet so I haven't gotten to look inside one to see if it has any structural enhancements beyond standard sheeted foam. I have flown two Predators with the Caps Jett engine. I have thought about getting a Dominator just to try.
Later,,,basmntdweller

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 3:35:35 AM   
MRMADDMAXX


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		well i got some carbonfiber dave brown 5230 and built wing to spec as per instructions and i used a butcherblock wing compressor after closer examination of friends wing it seem to me like he had no carbon fiber or fiberglass on his wing which is why it might have folded in flight as for the joining of the cores then sheeting it is not possible as the sheets are as long as one half of the wing and doing them separtly is a pain thanks for the help with thewing the next question is about the v-tail setup what are the advantages and disadvantages what should the angle be and so on

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 3:45:16 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		The V reduces drag since there is only two surfaces versus three with conventional tail. There is also the theory that the V is at least partially out of the downwash through the turns whereas a conventional tail can be "blanked out" by the downwash causing a loss of control. I don't think you'd ever see it though. I have watched Craig Grunkenmeyer fly many heats with his old Doddgers and never saw one lose control because of downwash. The V tail is a pain to line up properly. Currently the preferred angle is 110 degrees.
Later,,,basmntdweller

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 4:29:35 AM   
MRMADDMAXX


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		well i did some research and the downwash thing is correct have you ever seen a 200+ mph rc plane that is a standerd tail the only ones ive seen are delta or a rare v is an angle of 130 too much i built it to 110 but the 90 min hardened to 130 and left a small gap that is filled with epoxy i hope it isnt as i will need to fabricate my own if it is true. thanks
Steve

make that a prop 200+ mph plane as jets dont have prop wash

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 4:39:59 AM   
basmntdweller


 

Posts: 1731
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Not sure about 130. tracking will be better but pitch stability will suffer.
basmntdweller

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 6:40:50 AM   
JohnBuckner



Posts: 3999
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Kingman, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by basmntdweller

For what it's worth, I talked to Lanier the other day and they said the Predator wing is plenty strong for Nelson engines. I haven't destroyed one yet so I haven't gotten to look inside one to see if it has any structural enhancements beyond standard sheeted foam. ILater,,,basmntdweller [/QUOTE]

Basmnt I have examined a number of crashed Pred wings and there is nothing under the skins except foam.

John

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 8:20:44 AM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Lanier can say what they want, but I've seen several Predator wings fail with a Nelson attached..

I wouldn't strap one one without some reinforcements.

Don't get me wrong, the predator is perfect for 424 racing, or most sport .40-.46 engines, its just not quite strong enough for a Nelson or Jett.

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 8:25:14 AM   
MRMADDMAXX


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Shall i mention this plane is a dominator not a factory built predator. but for those of you who have seen broken wings where have they broken so i can see the differences between the predator and mine and mod if necessary

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 10:39:26 AM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Ooops,

The predator is basically an arf version of the Dominator with a couple revisions.

The predator wing has some fiberglass on the wing, but has no CF along the high point (top and bottom).

This is what you need on the dominator wing. I typically use 3/4" CF Tow, top and bottom. Try and sheet as one wing, without the seem in the center. Add fiberglass in the center.

Good to go.

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 10:45:35 AM   
MRMADDMAXX


 

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/30/2002
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		shall i mention the sheets for the dominator wing are the same length as the cores how would you recommend to sheet the wing without seams

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"A microburst cause a .07mhz variance in my portable shortwave reciever while i was executing a inverted snap roll. It

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 5:05:51 PM   
PylonWorld



Posts: 1346
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Are you sure the sheeting is the same length as the cores? I thought it was about 1 1/2" longer which allows you to scarf the sheets. Maybe I used replacement wood on mine.

< Message edited by PylonWorld -- Jun 27 2003 1:39PM >

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 6:24:51 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Maxx,

Are you planning on putting a Nelson on the plane? I have read your initial post and it states that you have a TT 40 pro. IF this is the engine you have chosen, the wing will be fine. You must however, glass the center section where the 2 cores meet.

I have built several High wing quickee using 24" cores and sheeting and butt glued the 2 together. One little trick was to run the cores through a table saw cutting an 1/8" slot along the high point to accept a 1/8" light ply joiner spar. It only needs to be about 12" long (6 on a side) . You can either do this after the wing is sheeted our before the sheeting is on. Preferable method is before.

One more way to add strength is to purchase 48" long trailing edge and leading edge stock.

I keep hearing about folding wings and these airplanes. Where do they fold? I Have never seen a wing fold at the centersection. Usually, wings fold at the inside aileron cutout, or just outside the fuselage. What is the case?

Dan

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Dan Kane

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Folding Predators - 6/27/2003 6:59:27 PM   
daven



Posts: 7004
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		The predators I have seen fold, have been right in the center. In some cases, it looked like there was very little glue holding the two halves together.

I like to keep the seem of the sheeting away from the center. All you have to do, is cut one set of sheeting in half. Take the other (full length sheet) and use in the center, and each half on the outer quarters.

Its a little bit more work, but I think its quite a bit stronger.

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 7:26:36 PM   
DMyer


 

Posts: 491
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Potomac, MD, USA
Status: offline 		"For what it's worth, I talked to Lanier the other day and they said the Predator wing is plenty strong for Nelson engines. I haven't destroyed one yet so I haven't gotten to look inside one to see if it has any structural enhancements beyond standard sheeted foam. I have flown two Predators with the Caps Jett engine. I have thought about getting a Dominator just to try.
Later,,,basmntdweller"


For what it is worth... plenty strong for a nelson... as long as you don't try a full tilt pylon turn. Not only is there no internal reinforcement, such as CF, but the foam itself is a very low quality. I was examining someone elses wrecked Predator last weekend and I noticed that the foam was very soft with a very loose foam balls structure... much less organized and softer than the 1 LB virgin EPS I (most people) cut cores from. I suspect they are using recycled foam. It is irresponsible of Lanier to even suggest someone can put a nelson on that plane without significant modifications. I am surprised their general counsel does not caution Lanier employees against making such suggestions.

Dan

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Lanier Dominator Buildup - 6/27/2003 8:01:40 PM