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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/27/2012 12:43 AM

eddieC

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Senrak, +1 !

Waconut's post #151 is a great idea. A large company (say, Hobbico...) could set up a boutique operation to reissue out-of-production kits for limited production runs. Change the box art slightly, put a nice medallion or other easy change to mark the kit as a limited version. Run batches of 300, advertise in MA and FlyRCfor only 2 or 3 months and make it clear they won't be run again for 2 years or so. I bet they'd fly off the shelves and, G-forbid they don't, look at the good press Hobbico garners for their efforts. We'll be talking about it for years!

Look at the new-product announcements we get now, flight reviews on ARFs and foamies that don't make it to market for six months or more and then they're sold out in a few weeks. With just a fraction of that marketing effort, kit reissues could thrive and might become a nice niche. Small laser-cutters are doing it with 3-6 people max. Look at what Disney does with their legacy movies (Snow White, Pinocchio, etc. ). Same product, just update the dress on that pig every couple years.

Failing all that, sell those plans with parts templates for kit builders or give them to MAN, MA or RCM so the designs can be appreciated by us builders.

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/27/2012 1:04 AM

EscapeFlyer

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Hobbico is very covetous of their product (and rightfully so).

This road has already been traveled with them. There is not enough money to be made in plans services and/or template services. As the OP, Bax shot me down VERY quickly on this- inside this thread.

You can still purchase instruction manuals and plans for discontinued kits as long as they still have them. Using them for personal gain and endeavors of the such will get you legal troubles though.

I believe there is truth behind, "they make/distribute what sells." Why stock what does not sell. No one would absorb the re-tooling costs to cut kits for low sales. Hobbico needs to make money, not lose money.

I am of a mind that it is now up to us to pull up our bootstraps and start designing and building our own stuff. Why should we have to rely on anyone else? That only makes us dependant. It is time to lose the, "but I don't know how to" or "I don't have the ability" mentality.

Get on the computer, get to a design program, learn the basic cad functions there or on line, and do it! There are a lot of people in RCU that can help direct us. I have seen this in the kit building thread, the Scratchbuilding threads, the pattern and classic pattern build threads. Why wait for someone else when we should be taking the baton and running with it.

While we do this, we can still hold excitement for those who prefer the premanufactured stuff because we are still alloweed to have what WE want as well. No one person is higher in stature than the other... nor should they/we be.

Then, support Hobbico by buying them out of nuts and bolts and engines and... etc. Good wood can be purchased from on-line Balsa distributers as well.

If you want something bad enough, you can design it even better than the mass produced kits. And if that didn't happen the first time, we are industrious enough to find out what we did wrong the first time... to do it right the next time.

Brian

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/29/2012 5:28 AM

Zor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieC

Senrak, +1 !

Waconut's post #151 is a great idea. A large company (say, Hobbico...) could set up a boutique operation to reissue out-of-production kits for limited production runs. Change the box art slightly, put a nice medallion or other easy change to mark the kit as a limited version. Run batches of 300, advertise in MA and FlyRCfor only 2 or 3 months and make it clear they won't be run again for 2 years or so. I bet they'd fly off the shelves and, G-forbid they don't, look at the good press Hobbico garners for their efforts. We'll be talking about it for years!

Look at the new-product announcements we get now, flight reviews on ARFs and foamies that don't make it to market for six months or more and then they're sold out in a few weeks. With just a fraction of that marketing effort, kit reissues could thrive and might become a nice niche. Small laser-cutters are doing it with 3-6 people max. Look at what Disney does with their legacy movies (Snow White, Pinocchio, etc. ). Same product, just update the dress on that pig every couple years.

Failing all that, sell those plans with parts templates for kit builders or give them to MAN, MA or RCM so the designs can be appreciated by us builders.

I have doubts that a batch of 300 would be profitable.
The manufacurers know their cost and overhead to go in production.

I am guessing that anything less than a couple of thousands would not be worth looking at.

Zor

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/29/2012 5:35 AM

Zor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EscapeFlyer

>
>
>

If you want something bad enough, you can design it even better than the mass produced kits. And if that didn't happen the first time, we are industrious enough to find out what we did wrong the first time... to do it right the next time.

Brian

I can agree wih Brian.
I am presently designing the sructure for a Piper Twin Comanche ( PA 30 ).

A long term project but most enjoyable. It all depends which aspect of the hobby you are interested in.

Zor

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/29/2012 6:16 AM

eddieC

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I guess I'm not as discouraged or ready to give up as some. If Hobbico saw commitments close to the previously mentioned hallmark of 300, there could well be some action. That would pave the way for the next few reissues. This thread just lost steam, is all.

Laser-cutting is cheaper, more accurate and more efficient than die crushing. The small operators are making a go of it so it can be done, and not on a scale of 'thousands'. I know I would buy 2 each of the Jungmann and Extra were they available. Not everyone has the time or talent to do a CAD design, then go through the hassle of finding hardware, scrounging up cowls, canopies, etc.

Just like surveys, each vote on this thread represents X modelers, and I believe the manufacturers know this. A 6-to-1 ratio is within the realm of possibility. Not everyone spends a lot of time on RCU, as an example our club has always had about 20% non-computer users. They almost all like kits though.

One big issue is the cost of decent balsa, but good balsa is always worth the expense.

Maybe this or a similar thread can get the ball rolling again.

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/29/2012 1:46 PM

Zor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieC

I guess I'm not as discouraged or ready to give up as some. If Hobbico saw commitments close to the previously mentioned hallmark of 300, there could well be some action. That would pave the way for the next few reissues. This thread just lost steam, is all.

Laser-cutting is cheaper, more accurate and more efficient than die crushing. The small operators are making a go of it so it can be done, and not on a scale of 'thousands'. I know I would buy 2 each of the Jungmann and Extra were they available. Not everyone has the time or talent to do a CAD design, then go through the hassle of finding hardware, scrounging up cowls, canopies, etc.

Just like surveys, each vote on this thread represents X modelers, and I believe the manufacturers know this. A 6-to-1 ratio is within the realm of possibility. Not everyone spends a lot of time on RCU, as an example our club has always had about 20% non-computer users. They almost all like kits though.
One big issue is the cost of decent balsa, but good balsa is always worth the expense.

Maybe this or a similar thread can get the ball rolling again.

eddieC or anyone,

We do not all figure things the same way and there is nothing wrong with that.

If a fellow has plans/drawings which has likely cost him some money already and sends the drawings (suitable for laser-cutting) to a kit cutter using laser-cutting, I do not consider this laser-cutter is a manufacturer.

May be I see this wrong in the opinions of some fellows but let us imagine a complete kit with all the necessary stuff to build a model. That would include canopy, cowl, wheel pants if any, hinges, horns, landing gear and so on. Assume the kit will retail at $300.00

By the time we remove the profit of the retailer (LHS) then the profit of the distributor then the costs of transportation, I figure the manufacturer gets about $100.00 per kit and if all the 300 kits are sold and paid for the manufacturer has $30,000.00

What part of that $30,000.00 is clear profit for the manufacturer ?

Well _ _ _ at least I am posting some idea why I believe that a much larger production run is needed to interest the manufacturer. By the time we consider the manufacturer's overhead and his cost of material and production, there is not much left on a 300 units production run.

Anyone can play with my figures above and post their own idea justifying such a small production run.

I am interested to read anyone posting this justification.

Zor

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 12/29/2012 2:01 PM

invertmast

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Only 300 kits for a world wide available product? They would be gone in weeks (at most). If the airplane was popular.

I could care leas for seeing another cub, extra, p51, yak, etc. do something different, unique and appears challenging!

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/1/2013 6:19 PM

Nergall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zor

I have doubts that a batch of 300 would be profitable.
The manufacurers know their cost and overhead to go in production.

I am guessing that anything less than a couple of thousands would not be worth looking at.

Zor

There is almost always other ways to manufacture things that might be higher per unit cost, but don't have the extremely high setup costs. I would think around 500 - 1,000 kits would easily make money if they were produced using modern methods. These kits would definitely have higher per unit costs though. As you said, a kit that previously went for $150 might well cost $250 now. (Even the Top Flite kits recently went up sharply in cost, so just the materials alone must've gone up a bunch?)

Also, you wouldn't necessarily have to sell them all immediately either. You could produce a few thousand extra of the printed materials for next to nothing and then assemble the kits as needed. A laser cutter doesn't take much setup time. In other words, if they produced them using modern methods, they could carry a large number of kits for very little inventory space and minimal up front costs. (Those old designs would have to be converted to laser files, but that's a very small cost compared to designing a new plane.)

I used to think they were holding on to the old designs in order to produce ARF's out of them all eventually. However, most of the recent ARF's have been total re-designs. The Chipmunk, the Super Sportster and the Contender being great examples. The new ARF's are smaller and electric anyway.

If they can't do it themselves, why not just license the old style kits to one of the larger kit cutter businesses???

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/1/2013 7:29 PM

eddieC

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quote:

If they can't do it themselves, why not just license the old style kits to one of the larger kit cutter businesses???

Exactly how I feel. Getting the rights is the hard part tho.

Laser cutting has revolutionized the kit business. I messed up a part on a laser kit by Retro RC (great company!), contacted him and he cut the parts and I had them a few days later. This flexibility (plus no dies or crushed parts) means better service to the customer.

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/10/2013 9:09 PM

CellTech

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I want a Big Stick 60 kit.
In fact I want two please.. No Barfs foe me

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/10/2013 9:13 PM

tailskid

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I have one .60 kit NIB and am debating to sell it, build it, or make templates of everything and scratch build one.....decisions, decisions, decisions......

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/10/2013 11:09 PM

Zor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tailskid

I have one .60 kit NIB and am debating to sell it, build it, or make templates of everything and scratch build one.....decisions, decisions, decisions......

Since you are your own government you can take 1 to 3 years to take a dicision

L O L .

Zor

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/11/2013 2:03 AM

tailskid

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But because I live in the USA, I am not held accountable for my decision(s)......just like congress

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RE: Help me convince Hobbico to reissue... - 1/11/2013 3:04 AM

eddieC

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You're tryin' to get this thread shut down, aren't ya?

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