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Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/7/2009 9:12 AM  1 votes
Bass1



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Status: offline 		I've got a well used .46 powered profile( Katana V2) that I rarely fly anymore as I was getting a little bored with it. I was thinking about adding a spoileron switch/mix to maybe add some spice to the airplane and renew some interest in flying it. Anybody have any cool, mind boggling manuevers that need spoilerons? Just wondering ...

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/7/2009 8:24 PM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		I have the mix on most of mine. The thing that gets peoples attention most often is the elevator with full spoileron mix. This does take a ton off throw in the elev and the aile but the plane will drop straight down with the fuse and wings level. A word of caution on this mix. The plane wont fly out very well with it. I staerted with the mix on a regular switch. At the bottom I would have to stand it up on it's nose and flip the before I could fly it out. After a few times of this I put the mix on the trainer switch. this way I can let go any time and fly it. A couple other things the mix will do. Waterfalls are tight and fast, knife edge spins with power on are so fast I have had the fuel pulled away from the carb and stalled the engine. I also use it for HA/Harrier flight. I takes most of the wing rock out of as smaller planes.

david

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/7/2009 10:52 PM   
Bass1



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Status: offline 		I've never used a spoileron mix. Do you need to mix in UP elevator?

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/8/2009 2:07 AM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		The ailerons are mixed TO the elevator. So when you pull back on the stick and the elev goes up, so do both ailerons.

David

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/8/2009 2:43 AM   
Bass1



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Status: offline 		So depending how you set things up (travels) the spoilerons move up proportionally to the amount of elevator travel? I was thinking they were similar but opposite to flaps where you just add say 30% spoileron on a switch and the elevators would go up a preset amount acting as up trim. Can you tell I know nothing about spoilerons?

< Message edited by Bass1 -- 8/8/2009 4:25 AM >

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/8/2009 3:40 AM   
GVR-4579


 

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Status: offline 		Hmm mine are set different than you guys. my elevator goes up and my spoilerons go down, makes it loop really really fast.



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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/8/2009 4:23 AM   
Bass1



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Status: offline 		GVR, Sounds like yours are set up as flaps/flaperons.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/8/2009 4:54 AM   
GVR-4579


 

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Hmm so many different funny names for ways surfaces move inrelationship to eachother. I thought flaperons were just the ability to drop the ailerons into flaps. LOL someday i will learn it all someday



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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/9/2009 12:40 AM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		There are several ways to set them up depending the radio you have. Mine are mixed proportionally. I have the mix at 100% so 1/4 of my elev movement = 1/4 of the throw of bothe ailerons going up. Some guys will flip a switch and have a set amount of throw in the ailes regaurdless of the amount of elev travel.
The pics I am posting are of a Funtana 50X with the mix turned on.

BTW elev and ailes down is flaperon. elev up and ailes up is spoileron.

David

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/9/2009 2:00 AM   
j.duncker



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Status: offline 		I will second that - spoilerons are elevators and ailerons moving in the same direction.

My Sledge would descend almost vertically and if I got it right I could flick back to flaperons at about 2 feet, give it a bit of throttle and it would land softly with almost no forward movement. I got it right about 1 in 3 times so I stopped trying, I have never seen anybody do it consistantly but I am sure it is possible.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/9/2009 6:04 AM   
victorzamora


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daveopam

BTW elev and ailes down is flaperon. elev up and ailes up is spoileron.



Sorry David, but that's not quite right. Flaperon is actually using ailerons as flaps or flaps as ailerons. Elevator-to-flap mixing is elevator up, flaps down. ETF is used for tight loops and SHORT take-offs. Spoilerons actually mean using ailerons as spoilers, but that's not how the R/C community typically uses it. We use "spoilerons" to mean elevator-to-spoiler mixing....which is ailerons up, elevator up or ailerons down, elevator down.

Spoilerons (as we use the word) allows your wing to stall more cleanly when you give an elevator input. When you give up elevator, your wings stall relative to an upright flight...giving you a harrier/elevator. When you give down elevator, your wings stall relative to inverted flight. This keeps your wings from producing lift and flopping you out of waterfalls and inverted harrier/elevator. The reason that you can waterfall better is that you completely stall your wings and the plane becomes unstable enough for you to waterfall well. Some people do ETF mixing for waterfalls to increase their elevator throw and therefore giving them better waterfalls. I subscribe to the ETS method of waterfalling...but that's just what I've had luck with.

If you have the option (ie: Futaba Tx) you can set-up your mix to be on a 3-way switch: ETS-N/A-ETF

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/9/2009 7:01 AM   
Bass1



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Status: offline 		Well, I had a ball today with what little spoilerons I had dialed in (Although I only had up ailerons and up elevator mixed) I had 35% dialed in at full elevator throw and I think I could use a little more I just figured out how to add down ailerons (spoilers) to down elevator so I haven't tried any inverted mauevers yet. Victorzamora, How much spoilers to elevators do you have programmed to get good clean waterfalls and how are you entering the maneuver?

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/9/2009 7:55 AM   
victorzamora


 

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Status: offline 		I'm using full aileron deflection. However, my plane has very little aileron deflection. It's a matter of starting low and slowly cranking it up. To enter a waterfall, I go into a hover and then I punch full throttle and full down elevator...timing and pumping my throttle, of course.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/10/2009 6:27 PM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		vistorzamora, thanks for correcting my flaperon definition. Got in a hurry I guess.

David

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/10/2009 8:03 PM   
victorzamora


 

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Status: offline 		Haha, no problem. Sorry to sound preachy. As R/C guys, we tend to not use the right terminology for everything....oh well.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 5:27 AM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		Didn't sound preachy at all. Thanks again, david

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 10:35 AM   
Bass1



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Status: offline 		Now I'm thinking about programing the spoilers into a few of my 50cc size planes just for general principles Probably never use them though....

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 4:44 PM   
victorzamora


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bass1

So depending how you set things up (travels) the spoilerons move up proportionally to the amount of elevator travel? I was thinking they were similar but opposite to flaps where you just add say 30% spoileron on a switch and the elevators would go up a preset amount acting as up trim. Can you tell I know nothing about spoilerons?


Hey, man....I just reread this thread and realized something, you had a perfectly valid point. The problem with doing that is you don't have the option to do inverted harriers/inverted elevators/waterfalls. All you can do is harrier/elevator more easily. Now, if you want to do incredible harriers from 1500ft without breaking a sweat...then you can do what you're talking about and tweak it to your liking...but that's really all you're going to be able to do.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 6:32 PM   
daveopam



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quote:

ORIGINAL: victorzamora

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bass1

So depending how you set things up (travels) the spoilerons move up proportionally to the amount of elevator travel? I was thinking they were similar but opposite to flaps where you just add say 30% spoileron on a switch and the elevators would go up a preset amount acting as up trim. Can you tell I know nothing about spoilerons?


Hey, man....I just reread this thread and realized something, you had a perfectly valid point. The problem with doing that is you don't have the option to do inverted harriers/inverted elevators/waterfalls. All you can do is harrier/elevator more easily. Now, if you want to do incredible harriers from 1500ft without breaking a sweat...then you can do what you're talking about and tweak it to your liking...but that's really all you're going to be able to do.



Once again depending on your radio and setup. Since mine are mixed to the elev movement. When the switch is pulled the ailes move with the elev no matter the direction. (If I am following this train of thought correctly.) Matter of fact most all planes will do an elevator better when inverted. It's the only way to get the rudder in clean air. This seems to help greatly with wing rock.

David

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 7:16 PM   
victorzamora


 

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Status: offline 		The reason I mentioned what I did in that last post is because in Post #5, the OP mentioned having a preset amount of spoilers along with elevator movement. That's why I said what a preset spoiler-elevator setting would be good for.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 10:49 PM   
RVator



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Status: offline 		Dave I have spoilerons setup on my 70 size Katana profile. When I first started using them the sink rate with full elev was amazing but it did catch me off gaurd trying to recover. I had to turn the mix off or add throttle will reducing up elevator to level off them turn off the mix. I like the idea of using the trainer switch. Things start happing fast when you are reaching for switches as the model drops closer and closer to the ground!

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/11/2009 11:01 PM   
Bass1



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quote:

The problem with doing that is you don't have the option to do inverted harriers/inverted elevators/waterfalls
Yeah I finally figured out how to program my 9C to operate the spoilerons and elevator in both directions. I also assigned the mix to a spring loaded (trainer) switch as David suggested and it works well although it seems I like to add some power instinctively (with power off maneuvers) a split second before releasing the trainer switch.

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/12/2009 3:45 AM   
daveopam



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Status: offline 		RVator, the way I have been doing them lately is to just hold the mix and add throttle a little at a time starting about 30'. This slows the decent and drops the tail into a harrier. When the tail gets about 2-3' from the runway I either go into a hover or fly it out in a harrier. Great fun either way. I have on a few occasions added the power and let go of the mix just before touchdown and landed. This is fun also, but since I run wooden props it can get expensive$$$$$

David

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RE: Spoilerons any fun?? - 8/12/2009 7:02 AM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		I had a plane with a long aspect ratio (wider wings than usual, double tapered) and a higher wing loading that I mixed 50% spoileron with elevator (same direction as noted above) and it really helped to tame the wing rock in harriers. In fact, without the mix it was nearly impossible to steer with the rudder alone in a harrier, so I programmed the mix to be on full time.

I find spoilerons kinda ruins waterfall ability, but it helps KE spin ability. Other than that in general it makes the plane a little more friendly. You in effect get some "washout" (both upright AND inverted) which can help if a plane has a high wing loading, or a wing planform which isn't as good for 3D (ie, swept backward like an Ultimate, or double tapered like pattern planes).

< Message edited by wind junkie -- 8/12/2009 8:05 AM >

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