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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 12:17 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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From: kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Ok Guys, Flight report. I have a Eflite 160 in my Swordfish mine weighs about 22 lbs ready to fly. I have 2 5 cell 5000 mah Lipos mounted in the cowl. They are very easy to remove. I have the plane balanced just in front of the CG called for in the manual. I am balancing it on my thumbs. It is nose down at the cg called for in teh manual and about 1/2" n front of that it balances level. I have a 20x10 APC prop on the front turning about 7000 rpm at full throttle. I do not have the torpedo on theplane. I did have extra down trimmed in for first flight..

Well I was really neverous about this and I was all alone in my backyard flying field.
I took it out for a couple taxi test and found that right front wheel was binding a little cause right turns. Fixed that on the spot. It then tracked true. The tail does want to bounce with my tail wheel set up and had to hold up elevator to taxi. I went to the far end of the field. Mouth dry and a little shaky. First plane I have flown in 6 months...
Lined up started adding throttle and tail comes up quickly. Increased throttle and it took off perfectly . No signs of being tail heavy at all. With the eflite 160 it can easily cruise just over half throttle and it very fast at full throttle. I have to remove all of the down trim I had put in the elevator. The was no tendence to climb with throttle change. I made a couple laps around the field and set up for a landing. It tracks nice and true no alieron trim changes from setup. Made a nice turn on final. Once level the sink rate is nice and slow. IIt slowed down really nice and landed like a duck with sore feet... as it slowed I added elevator and it really did not try to nose over...

I am really ploeased with teh plane and will get a few more flights before I add the torpedo. I do have a full cockpit installed and no pilots...

Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 1:02 AM   
MANFRED



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Status: offline 		Awesome! PLease post some pics of your finished Sword

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 4:10 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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From: kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		NO pic's as of yet...

Second flight was Great. Less nerves. Plane took off and I flew a 6 minute flight. Just wanted to get a nice and easy flight in. The Plane flies at a great scale speed at 1/2 throttle. The alierons are super responsive. I am going to have to reduce the rates. it not heavy on the elevator. I usually pull it apart now to check everything. The 160 was pretty warm when I landed. I will have to put some holes in the motor shroud to allow it to cool much better. The batteries aren't even warm. .

This plane is a great warbird and easy to fly...

Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 4:40 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		good to ghear that TY, so the CG you have is per the msnufscturer specs and it flies fine?

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 4:58 AM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		OK then seems like my problems may be do to the increased incidence's in the the wings and tail. I to built the plane using the jigs so i don't know why it is so different.
As of last flight my #where;

Bottom wing 1deg
top wing 3.5deg
tail 3.5deg

At least now we have some # to go by based on your maiden (thanks Ty). Do you think if I change incidence's to your # i may be able to take some weight off the nose?

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 5:23 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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From: kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I would say mine is balanced at 4.5" .. I thing the manual is 5" The reason I say I believe mine is 4.5" is that I am using my thumbs to balance on . And it hangs flat at 4.5" and nose down at 5"..I was able to get mine to balance with the rx batteries and my Lipos... I think if you could get your close to the incidences i have you would be fine... ANd I will try to find me some larger wheels these just don't look large enough...

TY

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 8:13 AM   
ispirit99


 

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Status: offline 		Congradulations Ty! Glad you had some good test flights. The flight report and set up info will be very useful. Gives me a lot to think about while I assemble my Cockpit kits. Tony.


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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/11/2010 11:46 PM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		TY, what did you do to get 1deg on bottom wing. On my plane the wing base mounted to fuse is at 3.5 to begin with. matching leading edges and trailing of the wing to the base will give 3.5 incidence on wing also. So did you shim the base or just adjust the anti rotation holes to get 1 deg incidence on wings?

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 12:15 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Status: offline 		Here is what I would do I would try to match the top wing to the bottom the best you can. When I set mine on the table. I tried to level the fuse the best I could. SO I could be off a drgree or 2 trying to level the fuse. The take home part of it was is that my wings and horizontal were all matched. They were all zeroed to each other. It would really not matter what the fuse itself is set at( within reason)....


Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 1:20 AM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		But. if I am at 3.5 and you are 1 and both top and bottom are matched then at 1 deg the leading edge of top wing would be more forward than at 3.5 deg, true? This would make your cg mark not relavant to a wing set at 3.5, since cg is based from top wing, am I thinking right? Seems like a better cg point would be from bottom wing since it cant move forward and aft?
Could you provide a measurement from back of cowl ring to leading edge of center top wing. I think this would allow me to match cg point regardless of incedence, correct???

I think most of my problem is a result of a tail with +5deg.
Man wish we had this info from the start (in the Manual ) sure would have saved me a bunch of rework.

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 2:43 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Status: offline 		If your wings are matched It would really not matter. The CG would not change due to an Incidence problem. The incidence would make it fly a little different. IF your wing are matched and your horizontal is a little different that can be fixed with elevator trim during flight...

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 2:45 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Status: offline 		YOu can't get the top wing in the wrong place if it sits correctly on the square aliminum block. but i'll mearsure it for you...

Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 5:25 AM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		Well got my bottom wing to 1.5deg, best I can do without major rebuild.
Got tail to 3.5, not much I can change ther since its glued in. So to change it I would probly have to rebuild all tail from scratch. So good for now, I will adjust with down trim.

still need to match top wing.

I just cant understand why I have to have so much weight on the nose. I have all gear forward of gear.
Others are running lighter motors than the dll55@3.5 and (ex. laser180@2.5 lbs )(satio36@3.5) dont seem to have to have all this weight (4lbs).

The plane did fly but I just want to make things as correct as I can.

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 5:48 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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Status: offline 		I measured form the back of the cowl ring installed on the fuse and it was 7" from the ring to the to the leading edge. Not measuring up to the leading edge but parrellel..
feel free to call me if you need more info,....

704-788-8526

Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/12/2010 6:27 AM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Ty. This should be it for now, until its time to get the torpedo fin kit that is.

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/15/2010 2:44 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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From: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Having just played with a Lanzo mBomber that had 4.5 degrees positive on the tailplane, and almost loosing it, i can sympathise with your problems.  This a/c had a removable tail and we packed the tailplane until I achieved 1 degree positive (which is where I like my O/T models to be) and lo and behold it was just as I would expect the model to fly. 
How is this applicable here well given Zoomer was running 3.5 degrees positive and Ty was running 1 degree positive on the tail and I rectified a similar situation on the Bomber I was following it follows that there is the basis of his problem
The incidences on the wings are "incidential"  to his discussion re handling.  I would get the top wing down as much as possible as that angle of attack is generating lots more lift than it should but the tailplane is the problem here and steps should be taken to reduce that as much as possible towards the desirable 0 to 1 degree positive 
Keep up the development guys I am still learning

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/16/2010 1:42 AM   
fockewulf37


 

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From: kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I got a friend over to video a couple short flights of ther ESM Swordfish... There is plenty of power in the Eflite 160 for this 22 lbs plane.....flight 3-4...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knXFUvoVhDE

Ty

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/16/2010 10:11 AM   
ispirit99


 

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Status: offline 		Great flight Ty! Looks like you didn't even need to trim her out very much. Tony.

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/18/2010 6:14 AM   
zoomer199


 

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From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Status: offline 		After reveiwing my tail for a bit I did try and unistall as to fix incedence. I was able to remove it with some effort. So I have the tail set 1.5 deg same as bottom wing. Adjusting top wing now, then re balance to the 4.5. Will fly sunday and see how she does.

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/18/2010 6:59 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		Zoomer, weather permitting, I will be flying also. I rechecked my cg and I had to add about 24oz to the inside of te cowl.......

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/19/2010 7:10 AM   
zoomer199


 

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From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Well just got back from the feild.
The swordfish flew great with the new incedences. At the end of the flight motor flamed out do to being to lean with the cowel on. Dead stiked on in no problem.
The new tail wheel system works good (just like Ty's setup). However the plastic hub holding the tail wheel is just not strong enough for are rough feild.
The wheel just would not hold a good center. Threads for set screw are to weak to tighten it enough. Any way I will fix that by machinig one out of alum.

By the way Ty one of my flying buddies says hello (John Smith )..He has been helping me alot with this plane. Lot diffrent flying from 3d..

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/19/2010 7:12 AM   
zoomer199


 

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Status: offline 		Ram- bro, Did you get to fligh, how did the swordfish fly?

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/19/2010 7:40 AM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		Zoomer, I needed to break in my TFGS P47, and it flew great. I will fly the swordfish later this week now that I am hearing some success stories. Are any of these mods , fixxes and questions getting back toESM?

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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/20/2010 11:23 PM   
Robert Bishop


 

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Status: offline 		I was thinking that some of you may be interested in the method I use to balance and to meaeasure incidences. The hardware you see in the photos is available at most hardware stores. You do have to drill a hole in the top wing center section, but it can be covered up when you are finished. ( I used flat black monokote)
The use of the small level means consistent balance readings. I chose the top panel line on the Swordfish as a line that was parallel to the thrust line.
I also use the level when I measure incidences. The chain and hook are not used but the plane is blocked up, so as the thrust line is level and then I use the robart  meter.
When I design and build my own I will build in an anchor nut, at the balance point. to accept the hook.
As a matter of interest I came across the following numbers for the full size Swordfish-
Incidence (Both wings)-4 degrees
Dihedral-upper 3 degrees
               -lower 1 degree
Sweepback-upper4 degrees
Tail incidence-normal+3 degrees
Fin offset to starboard-1 1/2 degrees.

These numbers are very close to my model readings.

All The best

Bob Bishop


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RE: ESM Fairey Swordfish - 7/21/2010 2:28 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		Robert, is that wing incidence -4 degrees or +4 degrees, either way would appear excessive but the negative figure on the wing would help off set the the positive on the tail for normal level flight while the negative figure would assist in "calming down" a spritely performance on take off.  That is the negative on the wing in "flight mode" would actually be neutral to positive on take off thus aiding the take off roll lift wise 
If both are positive then it would go against all I have been taught as an engineer, however stranger things have occured in this aviation world
Keep up the good work guys and Robert, that method you use is one we "old farts" in the O/T movement have been using for years here in Oz on our O/T aircraft and is probably the best and most practical method to ensure correct weight (with scales attached) and balance (when hung on the hook) around 

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