RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bloody picture

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 12:48 PM

formerbug

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Ken...Sorry about your accident, glad there appears to be no long term damage to your hand.

I do have a question though. I use a rig with a power panel. Both my starter and my glow plug heater are hooked to it. When starting, I always take extreme caution but still worry about my wires. I usually set my box behind the prop hook up the plug, then using exaggerated arm motions bring the starter around to the front and get it going. This though causes the starter wires to have to pass through the horizontal plane of the prop. I'm always worried about them getting caught. I'm thinking that a rechargeable heater is the better way to go because it would allow me to set the box in front of the prop and thus not have to worry about the wires, but that seems to defeat the convenience of power panel. Any thoughts?

Also, I've always tried to stay away from the aforementioned horizontal plane of the prop. I've always figured that the biggest danger would come from the prop coming apart. Your advice to stay away from the front of the prop makes perfect sense for obvious reasons. I'll have to take that into consideration.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 1:41 PM

SoCalSal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCKen

I have always been a huge advocate of prop safety, and unfortunately today I turned into a safety lesson. So I decided to put this out to show others what NOT to do.

When I'm starting in the pits I always secure my plane and give the prop very healthy respect when the engine is running. I never stand in front of it and always walk around to remove the glow starter. I started my plane and then taxied out to the runway for takeoff. As I rolled down the runway the plane hit a bump and the prop hit the runway which killed the engine. Grumble grumble grumble!!! I always carry my chicken stick and glow starter in my back pocket for just such instances. I've done this a thousand times. I walked down to my plane, set the radio down away from the prop, reached around and grabbed the fuselage, attached the glow starter, and started the engine with the chicken stick. The engine was at an idle so I was going to get my radio and step behind the prop to remove my glow starter. I removed my hand from the fuselage and reached for the radio. I bumped the throttle with my hand as I reached for it and the plane jumped towards me. What happened next was pure reflex and I don't know if I could have done any different if I had time to think about it, I reached up with my hand out of reflex to keep it from hitting me. Unfortunately an APC prop does not do nice things to flesh.

As you can see from the picture, it did quite a number on the palm of my hand. The upside is that there is no major damage. It didn't cut any bone, nerves, tendons, or muscle. But rather it's all in the fat on the palm of my hand. It took 2 hours at my doctor's office and 30 stiches to clean it up and close the cuts. And I spent the rest of today with my hand throbbing about 2 beats faster than my heart and zonked out on pain killers.

So what's the lesson. You got it, NEVER start a plane without it secured. In a case like this I should have taken back to the pits, or had somebody secure it for me to start it. Yes, I know there are those out there that say they've been starting their plane unsecured for years and years with no problems at all. Hey, so did I. I've been restarting planes on the runway for 14 years now and I'm always very very careful when I do so. However, no matter how careful you are accidents can still happen, as witnessed by what happened here. So for the old guys I would say to not get comfortable or confident and have this happen, stay safe and secure your plane. For the beginners out there, always secure your plane when you start it. and after it's running treat that prop with respect and always stay away from it.

Ken

I know what you mean. I too got carless and had a prop strik on my arm. Damn near cost me my life due to loss of blood. But after 5 hours of surgury and 5.5 pints of blood I'm still here and so is my arm. (see photo) So folks it does happen!! I know say this " There are those who have got hit and those who are going to be hit".
Good luck in your recovery!!

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 2:21 PM

Tango Juliet

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Ouch, Ken

. I'm glad it's not as bad as it looked. I'm also glad you didn't loose your "trigger" finger.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 3:52 PM

Deadeye

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I hope you heal up and get back to flying soon, Ken. Thanks for keeping and eye on my forums while I was out harvesting these past weeks.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 4:37 PM

scflyboy

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Men,

Props have always scared me! Now they scare the crap out of me!

Be careful and speedy recovery!

scflyboy

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 4:59 PM

my05monte

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I hope both Ken and socal heal soon. Seeing these pictures puts a mental picture in my head when I'm around my running engine. I've only been in this hobby for 3 years and count myself fortunate not to have this happen to me. I just keep telling myself those are knives turning in front of that engine. Heal well and soon.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 5:05 PM

SoCalSal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: my05monte

I hope both Ken and socal heal soon. Seeing these pictures puts a mental picture in my head when I'm around my running engine. I've only been in this hobby for 3 years and count myself fortunate not to have this happen to me. I just keep telling myself those are knives turning in front of that engine. Heal well and soon.

Hi,my encounter with the fan was about two years ago. I have healed as much as it is going to heal but will have a loss of feeling in a couple of my fingers forever. Just let our accidents be a warning to all that it can and does happen. Me and Ken are not the first nor will we be the last to have this happen sorry to say. We both just hope it wakes up some to the fact that SAFTY is FIRST and FORMOST always in this hobby.
Another thing I now do when I'm at the field is if I see someone trying to start their engine on the runway or anywhere else without any type of restraint is walk up to them and give them a stearn warning about what can happen...I show them my scar and ask that they not to do it. I then go back to my truck get the first aid kit out and get ready to help them if they are stupid enough to continue with their pending accident. I have had a couple of guys just look at me and say to mind my own busniess ..it doesn't bother me..I tried to warn them. I even have a very glossy photo of my arm in my tool box just to add some visual effect to my request. Most take my advise but not all.
Thanks for you kind words.

< Message edited by SoCalSal -- 8/23/2009 5:26 PM >

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 5:51 PM

GaryHarris

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Sorry to hear about your injuries Ken. I have linked this thread to some of my locals.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 6:49 PM

kochj

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Kens injuries were caused by a very large wood prop,,,,
I imagine a small APC prop (aka "The Razzor") would have been very bad as well,
probly not as deep though..
Good to hear from you ken...

I too have had a bad cut(s) from a APC prop and a OS .46FX .
It was on a Thundertiger FLoat plane and the boom/prop to
fusesulage clearance was very little...

I had changed the prop to a larger one....
I flew it off a boat on the lake....
started it on the boat, reached down to put it in the water
and it was on idle....
THe sharp tip of the prop hit my index finger about 13 x's before I
could get it out....many stiches, and it still swells, due to scar tissue...

It was my 1st plane (learned on a simulator and soloed by myself)

This is the drawback to not learning to fly the old way....
Joining a club and learning how to learn the "safe way" of
doing things...

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 7:32 PM

Dan M

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCKen

I have always been a huge advocate of prop safety, and unfortunately today I turned into a safety lesson. So I decided to put this out to show others what NOT to do.

When I'm starting in the pits I always secure my plane and give the prop very healthy respect when the engine is running. I never stand in front of it and always walk around to remove the glow starter. I started my plane and then taxied out to the runway for takeoff. As I rolled down the runway the plane hit a bump and the prop hit the runway which killed the engine. Grumble grumble grumble!!! I always carry my chicken stick and glow starter in my back pocket for just such instances. I've done this a thousand times. I walked down to my plane, set the radio down away from the prop, reached around and grabbed the fuselage, attached the glow starter, and started the engine with the chicken stick. The engine was at an idle so I was going to get my radio and step behind the prop to remove my glow starter. I removed my hand from the fuselage and reached for the radio. I bumped the throttle with my hand as I reached for it and the plane jumped towards me. What happened next was pure reflex and I don't know if I could have done any different if I had time to think about it, I reached up with my hand out of reflex to keep it from hitting me. Unfortunately an APC prop does not do nice things to flesh.

As you can see from the picture, it did quite a number on the palm of my hand. The upside is that there is no major damage. It didn't cut any bone, nerves, tendons, or muscle. But rather it's all in the fat on the palm of my hand. It took 2 hours at my doctor's office and 30 stiches to clean it up and close the cuts. And I spent the rest of today with my hand throbbing about 2 beats faster than my heart and zonked out on pain killers.

So what's the lesson. You got it, NEVER start a plane without it secured. In a case like this I should have taken back to the pits, or had somebody secure it for me to start it. Yes, I know there are those out there that say they've been starting their plane unsecured for years and years with no problems at all. Hey, so did I. I've been restarting planes on the runway for 14 years now and I'm always very very careful when I do so. However, no matter how careful you are accidents can still happen, as witnessed by what happened here. So for the old guys I would say to not get comfortable or confident and have this happen, stay safe and secure your plane. For the beginners out there, always secure your plane when you start it. and after it's running treat that prop with respect and always stay away from it.

Ken

Oh crap that looks like it Hurt's !!

you got lucky as hell , i imagine if the cuts had run across the palm instead of the way they did you could have cut some tendons !

thanks for sharing the story and the photos , hopefully you saved a couple a people some digits and a lot of pain .

BTW .. you have a good doctor , he must have been a seamstress in another life !

hope you heal fast .

Dan

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 7:41 PM

scottflewell

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We just had this to one of our long time club members with a four stroke engine that was running backwards. it tore his fingers up pretty bad but lucky enough for him we were all there to rap up his hand and get him to the hospital. i see alot of people standing in front of those props. i cant tell you all how many times i've had a prop nut pop and shoot that prop about 20ft in front of you. i mean not alot but ya know one time is enough but it happens.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 8:10 PM 1 votes

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I also learned that valuable lesson the hard way... but I did learn...NOW I HAVE A RUBBER BAND THAT'S LOOPED AROUND THE HANDLE ON TOP, THEN STRETCH IT DOWN AROUND THE BOTTOM OF THE TRANSMITTER & UP TO THE THROTTLE STICK...TAAAAA DAAA NOW THE THROTTLE CAN'T BE BUMPED OR ACCIDENTLY MOVED WITHOUT YOU PHYSICALLY BEING MOVED..... BE SURE & USE A HEAVY RUBBERBAND.. LIKE THE KIND YOU PUT ON A AIRPLANE WING TO HOLD IT ON... HOPE THIS INFO HELPS SAVE SOMEONE'S FINGER OR HAND

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 8:23 PM

da Rock

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quote:

ORIGINAL: formerbug

I do have a question though. I use a rig with a power panel. Both my starter and my glow plug heater are hooked to it. When starting, I always take extreme caution but still worry about my wires. I usually set my box behind the prop hook up the plug, then using exaggerated arm motions bring the starter around to the front and get it going. This though causes the starter wires to have to pass through the horizontal plane of the prop. I'm always worried about them getting caught. I'm thinking that a rechargeable heater is the better way to go because it would allow me to set the box in front of the prop and thus not have to worry about the wires, but that seems to defeat the convenience of power panel. Any thoughts?

Thoughts? you betcha'

Rechargable glow-starter for sure. Absolutely.

One wire is bad enough but two are just asking for it. No matter what proceedure anyone can come up with to deal with two wires, it's going to be half-sed. You can't have an accident with a wire that isn't there. Get rid of at least one of 'em. And the most dangerous is the glowplug wire.

Getting rid of both gave a couple of benefits. It's more convenient for me to recharge the glow-starter and the portable starter than it was to recharge the batter in my flight box. That's just because of my shop layout, and probably won't matter to most, but I also found that not having the lead battery in the flight box was a big plus. And every so often, it's quicker to restart a plane just off the runway than it is to lug the sucker back. (yeah, that has some caveats, but it's not an option otherwise)

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 8:59 PM

Alex7403

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I'm sorry for your injury Ken wishing you fast recovery, reminds me how dangerous this hobby can be even for guys like you which i regard as pro's.
I know you are paying attention to these props from my last injury with a prop from what you wrote then, an accident like yours I almost had but I stopped the plane with my shoe, but I can see how easily it can happen.

Recently I had an incident at our field which is 200 feet wide landing area plus 100 feet wide pit area.
I was sitting with the guys under a tent talking to them.
Suddenly, an RC jet flying across the runway at full speed directly hit the tent, the fence and continued to the parking lot and hit some car. There was a lot of debris and fuel in the parking lot near the impact area.
The impact was so strong that the horizontal bar (1-1/4 inch diameter steel) of the fence got bent one foot deep into it.
The point of impact with the fence was about 3 feet from where I was sitting and there are signs of impact on the bench from the yellow wing of the plane 1 foot from where I was sitting.
It is nothing less than a miracle that I’m writing these lines makes me think all ways be alert and keep your head up and be on top of things.
three weeks later the same guy stall landed/crashed his jet in the pit area three feet from a person who was flying....

Alex

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 9:21 PM

shawnrandall@gmail.com

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When I first got into RC my upstairs neighbor Phil came back with a story of a man who had part of his arm severed by a large prop. Apparently the plane was not tethered at start, he was in front of the prop and he had the throttle up. It lurched at him and cut the mans arm right around the elbow. It was hanging on and they applied a tourniquet and the ambulance rushed him in. Later I went to the fyling field and saw him. They had reconnected everything and he had mobility in most of his fingers on his hand that was effected (well at least they moved a bit). He had to use extension sticks on his controller since he couldn't grip well and had limited mobility with the fingers and had to hang the controller from a harness to fly, but he was still out flying.

That taught me my lesson, just meeting the guy and seeing what could happen was enough to teach me respect for props.

Shawn

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 11:05 PM

1THEPALMER

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Took the nails off the fingers on my left hand 10 years ago playing with the needle valve from behind the prop @ wide open. Hurt more than I care to recall.
We see stiches every flying season @ our club, funny it's the old hands all the time.
A hint to all when you slice up the inside of an arm or fingers go to emerg and REQUEST the on call Plastics Resident. These guys all know micro surgery and will re attach severed nerve bundles and blood supply. The end result is better.
How do I know? 75% 3RD degree burns in an industrial fire. What was not scared from the burns is now scared form grafting again and again......... Now replacing the 25 year old grafts on my legs as they fail with synthetic. So trust me here get a plastics guy for hands and inner arms if you cut your face go to the GP he will leave a nice big scar that will get you dates!!!! All girls love the bad boys Right?

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 11:16 PM

joizeex

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ouch, you guys! glad nothing major was hit for any of you. so let me ask you airplane pilots this question. don't you guys have a switch to disable the throttle channel while starting the engine, to lock it to idle speed only? in heli mode there's a throttle hold switch that flatlines throttle to idle no matter what you do with the throttle stick. i haven't played around with my radio's airplane mode, but i thought it would have something similar?

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/23/2009 11:35 PM

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There is a guy that flies 30%'ers at our field with obviously large wood props. He told me when i was learning a while back about prop safety and then showed me his two missing fingers. He started the plane, and it wasnt chucked all the way, came forward because his throttle was a bit higher then idle. Instictivly like the OP said, his hand went up to "stop" it, and his fingers went off.

He was a Piano player for a living. No joke....

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 12:54 AM

RVman

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I think it all has to do with routine, and when we stray from that routine that is when it becomes dangerous. Personally, I hold the plane with my left hand, start the engine with my right and then when its running and down to an idle I switch the glow driver and chicken stick behind my back. This way my hands do not get close to the propeller. I do not use any mechanical restraint as I prefer holding it myself. People probably think its not the safest method but it works and is safe for me. Biggest issue for me is distractions from others talking or watching someone's flight etc since those get you out of routine and more likely to do something dumb.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 1:35 AM

jimmyjames213

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.....it happens to the best of us. hope you heal soon.

once i start my engine i move behind the plane, then remove the glow starter and adjust the needles. this way if you are talking to someone, get distracted,ect you wont reach into the prop by mistake. it only takes a second of not thinking to make a mistake.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 1:51 AM

koastrc

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In our club house hangs a shirt. On this shirt is blood. Inside the shirt was a person. A gas powered engine prop blade split. The blade struck the shirt and the person inside the shirt. Hospital and all that.
People engines and props are what they are. Our guy is fine now. Hope all works out for you.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 2:02 AM

Charlie P.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: formerbug
I use a rig with a power panel. Both my starter and my glow plug heater are hooked to it. When starting, I always take extreme caution but still worry about my wires.

I use a Kyosho flightbox with a power panel and corded glow driver and starter. I have a Orvis Zinger (the little spring-loaded reel gadget that fly-fishermen hang tools off their vests with). It has just enough pull to keep the cord taught and controlled while not pulling so hard as to yank the driver socket off the glo-plug. I tie a knot in the middle of the driver cord and attach the zinger to the box above the power panel and clip the other end just above the knot (towards the airplane). It not only holds the loose cord near the flightbox but when released it pulls the driver plug and wire back towards the box and away from the prop arc. Has worked well for me for eight years or so.

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 2:34 AM

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Sorry to hear that Ken. It must be something about this time of year. Was it not one year ago next weekend the B-26 bit your thumb?

David

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 3:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daveopam

Sorry to hear that Ken. It must be something about this time of year. Was it not one year ago next weekend the B-26 bit your thumb?

David

David,
Yeah, took the skin off the back of my thumb adjusting the needles on the TF B-25. That wasn't any safety violations, just poor design on the engines. Because of the FL-70 not being able to reverse the carbs I had to run the needles out of the bottom of the cowls. So I had to reach under the cowl to adjust it while it was running and I put my knuckle into the back of the blades. I thought that was bad, but in comparison to what happened yesterday it was nothing!!.

I won't be able to make the fly-in this year. That's the same weekend as the B-17 Gathering at Bomber Field in Monaville, Tx. I'm going to be covering that event for RCU. Sorry, I was hoping I could make your fly-in this year.

Ken

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RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bl... - 8/24/2009 3:25 AM

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well is ok to learn about this...a friend of mine was hit with a 23x8 CF propeller and he lost 3 fingers, was scary of hell, the good news is that at least he went to the hospital and they did a good job to GLUE the fingers to his hand...(glue in terms of Dr. ).

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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Beginners >> RE: Prop Safety, NEVER let your guard down. Warning: Bloody picture
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