I'm not sure what you're trying to sort out but if you're talking about the P8 in the photos Vince posted, it belongs to Kevin out in California. There are a number of videos of it in flight on YouTube put together by a good editor. There are also several threads which Kevin has been participating in on RCG including one of a Tower Kaos - redone. Worth a read!
Kevin is also helping Doug (Fatherof4) with his Conquest IV build also on RCG.
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David,
Caught the video on RCG, Camarillo, a great field location and a very good video. Always liked the way the Phoenix slow rolled, marveling at the swept wing.
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More rain outside, more work inside. Toothpicks epoxied in, cut off with razor saw. You can use toothpicks that are flat at the head, pull all the way thru, only one side to cut off. After this, sand both sides, may have to use little filler to completely hide the heads. Primer first on these minute areas, see where body putty can take care of it. The 12" 440 rods are soldered together, I use 60/40 or 50/50. If you sand and clean the rods, use plenty of flux, the joint will stay secure. These going into pushrod, on to elevator servo. You can see the pushrod has the direction to the servo. Set up with links at 50% of the 440 thread, all areas of hookup, then there is room on both ends if adjustment is needed. After finish and sand out stripe edges, clear coat, this bird will take on a different look, as you all know. Included here, picture of a spinner. This is a Super Tigre spinner from decades ago. It is 2-1/8" in diameter, perfect for the Skyglas Phoenix 5 and 6's nose. This one showed up on RCU or the Bay forget which. I sent him the history of it, offered $35.00, he puts it up for sale or auction, thinking it is going to make him rich, nobody bit. Does anyone have one of these spinners? You cannot use a starter with it, as it is a screw on.
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Back to it, rain has stopped for a little while, altho the humidity is on and off. This is last coat of primer, wet sand to correct density, ready for color. Had major problems with elevator hinge securing. I used same method I have used for eon's, this time, the adhesive did not dry correctly, only thing I can think of, shelf life, it oozed out into the hinge line, not good, MEK would not clean it up. Had to razor saw the Robarts off, capped the elevator TE, re-did the elevator LE's, then reduced the # of hinges per side, from 4 to 3. Four witih bullets worked fine, this time 3 DuBro large flats, will be OK. Using 440 linkage with 440 horn, will be solid, no flutter or unnecessary movement. Takes longer to do over then original build.
First sunny nice day, that will stay sun all day, clean up, then base coat white, after base coat finished, wet sanded, etc., tape off for color lines. When shooting color's, after initial tape onlay, dust clear over the edges of where the color is going to go. That way, any bleed, will be clear, then you can get a nice sharp line when pulling off from color coats. Remember when pulling the tape off, right over itself. You can see a lot of this on Phoenix #1 build thrread.
Finally going to fly, I have a Sig LT40, the big one, had to buy a new OS55AX, going to test fly everything all over again before going in these pattern planes, after sitting for one year, all radio gear had gone back to Mfr. for any updates, etc. These pictures look just like previous post's, there is progress here, with all stages of finish.
Mike, I pin everything, a nice blind rivet set-up that would not crush balsa or glass would be nice.
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Vince,
Still working towards making Apopka in Dec., hope to see you there. Phoenix is looking oh so good. Ordered up a replacement Phoenix VI wing core set from Eureka as the original set will not vac bag very well; round leading edge and the schucks don't work well with bagging. When the new cores get here I'll be hard at it to get it done so that a couple of flights can be accomplished prior to Apopka.
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Progress. There are Phoenix build thread's on here, I am being left in the dust. First light coat of primer on wing, block sand this, fill in all knicks, etc. Aileron's hinged, Robart's, I will use one large flat DuBro hinge on each aileron, in middle, pin both sides, just for insurance. The barrels not pinned, hard to do, but can be done to the meat part of it. You can look at these pictures posted from today, go back to the Phoenix 6 #1, and they look identical. Difference in the pictures, is the dates at lower right corner of the photo. Get this wing primered, sanded out, ready for color. Fuse has been ready for some time. Crank
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Back at it. Final sand and primer on wing, aileron's. Mounted engine, ready to run throttle cable, and double arm steering on the Spring-Aires. Pull-pull on the rudder. Tank floor in, Sullivan Round 12 0z. A larger tank can be squeezed in, round. Should get to the color next week, hope to have this bird finish painted, sanded out, and cleared by next Friday. Install equipment over the weekend, should have finished pictures on here by 1/10. I am going to copy one of the P-8's that have been on here. May do a straight line down middle of fuse, full color top, full color bottom, white will be one of them, silver canopy, some striping nose, down the fuse up the fin, to end of rudder. Lot of striping, work, but worth it when you take the paper and tape off. The painted P-6 here, gives an idea where this is going. That P-6 is in Ohio now. Crank
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Little progress. Base coat white to finish, wet sand, start masking for color, striping. Said I would have this done Friday, may need another week. May copy Wagner's P-8 paint scheme, without the lightning bolt, picture included here. Crank
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On to it. Started out cloudy day, figured more work on this P-6. Sun out now, going to high 70's today, have to attack the yard and trees. Back at this tomorrow, should start masking for color. Secured elevators to stab, you can see a jar of vaseline, I use all the time, this with any type of hinges, I don't use paper hinges. Just apply the vaseline to the hinge axis, top and bottom, then you can use any type of cement you want, even 30 minute expoxy, don't go overboard. I let sit for 24 hours, pull off the masking tape that was used to pull them together, tight, then alcohol cleans up the vaseline, as you know, it keeps any cement from curing on the hinges. I have always used round toothpicks to pin the hinges. This time I will use small skinny countersunk ss screws, that will be flush with the surfaces. If they show, that is OK. Pictures here, wing bolted on, now eyeing up for tape lines. Just take a mental picture, of where you want it all to go. This time, I have a couple of designs to copy. Blue, red, white, and some Cub yellow trim. I'm going over to NAPA, to see if they can get some Spray-Max paint, which is two parts in a rattle can, made especially for auto touch up. I understand it is compatible with lacquers. Back at this Friday or Saturday, Sunday is football and Budweiser. Everything is set for bolt in, only mechanical part left, run nylon tube for throttle, and I am using pull-pull on rudder, single pushrod, dual output on elevator, and double arm cable steering on the Spring-Aire NG. Going to use Kraft wheels. I have acquired many of the CG and RC nose gear brakes. Lucky to find them on auction site over the past 4 - 5 years. It is friction brake, work very well on ashphalt, hooked for apply on down elevator. We may have a NW Florida move in the next one or two years, which will put me in a good area for SPA and BPA travel. Add to this post, used #4, 1/2", drill to meat, counter sink surface, screw in. I will take these out when finish paint, re-install with a dab of cement, they will show, done on bottom only, one screw each hinge. I had more wood on the elevators and ailerons, so no pin, secured well. Usually this would be two toothpicks, with more cement, for you weight guys, I doubt is this screw weighs much more then two toothpicks. Wing the same, all hinges, bottom. I doubt if any of these need pinned, I have always pinned hinges. Crank
< Message edited by crankpin -- 1/17/2012 8:14 PM >
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Final base coat, wet sand, tape for color, should get'er done by Monday, Tuesday. Going up to 80 here today. For NG cable steeering, I will install a home made bellcrank vertical at inside of fuselage, secured thru servo board into rail, at rudder servo arm, little 90 degree pushrod to servo. Crank
< Message edited by crankpin -- 1/19/2012 9:56 AM >
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Hey Orlando - If I can get it under 15 lb's., that would be in line with the others. I am going to try a 16" prop on the YS. I have been using 14X10 and 15X8. I have a 16" in the shop, and I believe I bought it some time ago, at your suggestion. Dunno the pitch right now. I am going to keep the FS, do some practice, maybe not for now, but later.
< Message edited by crankpin -- 1/18/2012 9:12 PM >
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Robert - Yes, it ain't going anywhere. Let this dry out for a few days. One of the clubs I belong to here, has a 1500' blacktop runway, used to be an Ag-Cat runway for crops, etc. Good for retracts. All thats left on this, is color, and the mechanics. Thinking about trying out the Spray-Max system, just for one color.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankpin
Robert - Yes, it ain't going anywhere. Let this dry out for a few days. One of the clubs I belong to here, has a 1500' blacktop runway, used to be an Ag-Cat runway for crops, etc. Good for retracts. All thats left on this, is color, and the mechanics. Thinking about trying out the Spray-Max system, just for one color.
Vince
Any luck with obtaining the SprayMax from NAPA? I'd be interested to know how it works outs, particularly with spraying inside the wheel wells, and other difficult areas.
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Hey Doug - Going over there tomorrow, see if they can mix up a can of lighter blue for the top, then the insignia blue in front of silver canopy. P-6 #1 was red on top, I am going to reverse it. Crank
A note to those who are unfamiliar with SprayMax...
For one, it is not a paint but rather a system. NAPA can put any one part system auto paint in a can for you. Being franchises though they typically have agreements with specific paint manufacturers so if it's say DuPont, they won't sell you PPG and vice versa.
My particular NAPA does DuPont so they can give you cans of Cromax (water borne) or, in theory, Standox or Spies Hecker (solvent based). PPG's water borne paint is called Envirobase. However, since Jan 1st, 2011 all auto paint has to apparently be water borne for legal reasons in the US (EPA) which means that urethane base coats will be harder to come by if not impossible.
Another thing to keep in mind is that color coats shouldn't be catalyzed (i.e., 2K) as there is no need for it, it adds weight and the can life of the paint is a max of 48 hrs implying wasted paint. Color coats can be 1K paint and will have a shelf life of several months if not years - so the paint can be used in the future on another model.
If water borne paint is to be used, I'd be careful when combining with something like a LK base white - it will probably not hold. A primer layer atop the LK will almost certainly be necessary so it's a matter of making sure the primer is compatible with both the LK and the Cromax for example.
Vince, the model is looking sweet but if you decide to use SM system paint, you might have to start with Cromax primer and use their white which would be a shame given the work you've done. What you likely can shoot atop without issues are enamels or urethanes both of which will require at least 24 hrs cure time between colors. Anything other than these or more LK is bound to be tricky if it works at all.
But I'll be the first one to be happy if there's a way to shoot either Cromax or Envirobase atop LK or any other lacquer like Duplicolor!
Note: water borne auto paint is nice but expensive! A can of SM Cromax runs $30 CDN up here.
Last but not least, the paint can be color matched (to MK for example) but unfortunately not from a piece of MK. A standard code is needed or a specific kind of color chip so from my conversations with NAPA, matching MK seemed like a null proposition. For full paint jobs this is not an issue though and colors can be picked from a bible of colors available at the store - basically all the auto colors in existence by the various car manufacturers.
David
< Message edited by doxilia -- 1/18/2012 9:47 PM >
Any luck with obtaining the SprayMax from NAPA? I'd be interested to know how it works outs, particularly with spraying inside the wheel wells, and other difficult areas.
Doug,
The SM spray pattern and nozzle action is unique. It is very much like a real gun and nothing like the action from a can of LK - it feels pumped. The best I've experienced from a can which makes sense as it was designed to replace the need for a gun.
With light coats of paint, recesses like wells pose no problems with SM.
The most difficulty one is bound to have is with the type of paint one chooses. Water borne is more delicate than solvent based but then the beauty is that the auto stores have the SM recipe for each type of paint nailed down so the delivery should be straight forward. Also SM us an on/off system meaning that it doesn't allow you to depress the nozzle partially which typically results in spatter from lesser can nozzles such as LK. Cans like Duplicolor have a much improved nozzle over LK cans but still no where near as good as SM.
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Score: 105 Joined: 4/26/2002 Last Login: 5/20/2013 From: Orlando,
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Interesting notes David. Thanks for the information. I'll wait till Crankpin finishes and sends in his report. For now, I'll stick to the enamels and urethanes; at leats I know their tricks to finish.
No worries Orlando. I guess we're used to solvent based paint as it has proven itself for our applications over the years. I can attest to the beauty of fast flashing paint such lacquers and water borne though. They do speed up trim jobs as they can be masked after an hour or so. I recently shot Duplicolor color coats atop an epoxy white base layer (really an enamel actually). The color was very fast compared to the epoxy and partial enamel layers. 4-5 light coats spaced 10 min apart and the masking can be pulled off after an hour.
The paint edge can be brittle though so it's important to let it flash fully.
I'm eager to move on to the "water world" though for a number of reasons. Also Bob Hunt had good things to say about Cromax apparently so I want to give it a go. I will likely continue to use SM 2K deep luster CC urethane though as it is excellent.
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RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2 - 
For NG cable steeering, I will install a home made bellcrank vertical at inside of fuselage, secured thru servo board into rail, at rudder servo arm, little 90 degree pushrod to servo. 
I am going to try a 16" prop on the YS. I have been using 14X10 and 15X8. I have a 16" in the shop, and I believe I bought it some time ago, at your suggestion. Dunno the pitch right now. I am going to keep the FS, do some practice, maybe not for now, but later.