RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento

RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento
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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 6:03 PM

Tommy_Gun

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OK then Jimmy, all pokin aside.

Do you really believe that?

When as I mentioned earlier all the full scale round motored fighters had more grunt up front as compared to the pointy nosed guys?
Are you really not willing to consider that a plane with a wing area that is within a given percentage on a radial racer should be allowed to step up to the next sized engine displacement?

How about the rest of you?

Do you all really want to seen nothing but spit's and stangs and migs (Oh my!)

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 6:13 PM

Jimmy Skids

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quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

Hi Jim,

The chart I listed is just for discussion. I didn't take a long time working out the numbers. I tried to include most of the popular size engines and to match up some of the engine that I thought might be competitive with each other. If you look you will see that the .90 2 stroke and 1.20 are across from each other. So you and I were thinking alike in that regard. I know that I reduced the wing area at the bottom of the chart. That is because there are a few new arfs that are slightly less than 400 inches that I think would work well in the bronze class and give newbees a broader choice. As I said, a guy flew one at Kingman and it wasn't noticeable in the air that it was smaller. I don't see any down side to allowing a 350 SQ in warbird with a hot .25. I'm not sure why the 400 minimum was imposed except that they had to pick a number.

I know we will get some resistance from guys who are happy with their setup and don't want new competition, but I am trying to look at giving some more options. We have a breakout that is there to control the speed so a guy can't go too crazy. I did try to put the 1.40 4 stroke in the WM P51 so we were thinking alike there as well. I wanted to include the larger two strokes to open it up to the 60 and 90 size arfs. I have seen a few fly and they work fine and IMO, would a nice addition to our races.

Anyway, chew on it for a bit and see if you can see where I am trying to go with this.

Blessings, Terry

Will do

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 6:16 PM

Jimmy Skids

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

OK then Jimmy, all pokin aside.

Do you really believe that?

When as I mentioned earlier all the full scale round motored fighters had more grunt up front as compared to the pointy nosed guys?
Are you really not willing to consider that a plane with a wing area that is within a given percentage on a radial racer should be allowed to step up to the next sized engine displacement?

How about the rest of you?

Do you all really want to seen nothing but spit's and stangs and migs (Oh my!)

You forgot the Tony, 109, and a few others.....

Seriously, would a bigger motor really make YOU faster?

Jimmy Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 6:42 PM

ChrisAttebery

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The ducted fan motors are on their own level. They are up there with Nelson and Jett's QM40 motors. I doubt that even the Jett 90 is on the same level.

My $.02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

I have also flown against Mark and his 2 stroke and lost.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 7:05 PM

still4given

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

The ducted fan motors are on their own level. They are up there with Nelson and Jett's QM40 motors. I doubt that even the Jett 90 is on the same level.

My $.02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

I have also flown against Mark and his 2 stroke and lost.

I don't mind someone using a DF motor. They still have breakout to deal with. I am not really worried about the Gold class. Most guys who run in Gold are going to find a way to be competitive. That is what that class is for. I'm more interested in getting a chart that will make it easier for the masses to join in, whether they fly Bronze or Silver. The chart has needed attention for a long time. I just checked the SWRA and they have changed their chart. The 2 strokes and 4 strokes are equal now.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/13/2009 11:53 PM

Tommy_Gun

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No Jimmy it won't make ME faster.
But the ability to turn a bigger prop with a bigger engine will aid my 190 or critical mass to run faster.

As long as I am comparing full scale radial power output to full scale V12's. Look at the differences in props for the two different powerplants also. More power means more prop. Not like I have to 'splain that to you.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 12:55 AM

Jimmy Skids

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quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

The ducted fan motors are on their own level. They are up there with Nelson and Jett's QM40 motors. I doubt that even the Jett 90 is on the same level.

My $.02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

I have also flown against Mark and his 2 stroke and lost.

I don't mind someone using a DF motor. They still have breakout to deal with. I am not really worried about the Gold class. Most guys who run in Gold are going to find a way to be competitive. That is what that class is for. I'm more interested in getting a chart that will make it easier for the masses to join in, whether they fly Bronze or Silver. The chart has needed attention for a long time. I just checked the SWRA and they have changed their chart. The 2 strokes and 4 strokes are equal now.

Blessings, Terry

Terry,
Here is where I agree yet disagree. I agree with part of your Gold Class comment and that most will find a way to be competitive, my fear is more for the non-gold or new-gold pilots in the area of safety. For the most part anyone can take a .60-.75 two stroke and put it on a WM Mustang or similar plane and break out in Silver or fly it in bronze. Do we really want these people to have the ability to place a 1.08 2 stroke on this size plane? I understand about getting the masses involved, but they can be involved using the current or slightly modified rules. Guys at my field have raced the H9 mustangs and Spits with YS 110 motors and have been pleanty fast as well. I again would state that we need to shoot for minimum changes and not go overboard. What has worked for years just needs a small rework to align the 3 seperate groups in California and neighboring states in an effort to get everyone on similar playing fields. This would allow for more racers to venture out to other areas.
Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 2:02 AM

still4given

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

The ducted fan motors are on their own level. They are up there with Nelson and Jett's QM40 motors. I doubt that even the Jett 90 is on the same level.

My $.02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

I have also flown against Mark and his 2 stroke and lost.

I don't mind someone using a DF motor. They still have breakout to deal with. I am not really worried about the Gold class. Most guys who run in Gold are going to find a way to be competitive. That is what that class is for. I'm more interested in getting a chart that will make it easier for the masses to join in, whether they fly Bronze or Silver. The chart has needed attention for a long time. I just checked the SWRA and they have changed their chart. The 2 strokes and 4 strokes are equal now.

Blessings, Terry

Terry,
Here is where I agree yet disagree. I agree with part of your Gold Class comment and that most will find a way to be competitive, my fear is more for the non-gold or new-gold pilots in the area of safety. For the most part anyone can take a .60-.75 two stroke and put it on a WM Mustang or similar plane and break out in Silver or fly it in bronze. Do we really want these people to have the ability to place a 1.08 2 stroke on this size plane? I understand about getting the masses involved, but they can be involved using the current or slightly modified rules. Guys at my field have raced the H9 mustangs and Spits with YS 110 motors and have been pleanty fast as well. I again would state that we need to shoot for minimum changes and not go overboard. What has worked for years just needs a small rework to align the 3 seperate groups in California and neighboring states in an effort to get everyone on similar playing fields. This would allow for more racers to venture out to other areas.
Skids

What you state has "worked for years" now only works for those who run the big YS engines. It no longer works for the folks who prefer 2 strokes. There is nothing to stop a newbee from stuffing a YS 1.20 SC in a WM P-51 and flying it in the gold class. How is that different from an OS 1.08? I knew when I made this chart that I would hear resistance from the YS crowd. They have ruled the Gold class for a long time. I don't have anything against YS engines, I race them myself. I just think it is wrong to have a wing area chart that almost forces someone to use a certain brand of engine to be competitive. The rules have been unbalanced too long in favor of the YS engines. I have been hearing this since I have been in warbird racing. I'm just trying to come up with a chart that doesn't give an advantage to any particular engine. That is not the case with the present chart.
We have break out times in each class. Why not let that control the speed of planes. If the CD thinks someone is flying over their head, he needs to deal with that. It shouldn't matter what engine he has in his plane.

In RCPRO we have been talking about trying to adjust the chart for a while now. With the 1.15 coming out it seemed like a good time to address it. I don't want to just adjust the chart to continue to benefit the same guys who are already dominating the field. I want to try and use this opportunity to make some changes that will improve parity in the charts. I may get shot down but I believe it is worth trying.

The SWRA chart now has the 2 stroke and 4 stroke even. A YS 1.10 would compete with an OS 1.08. Some are talking about just accepting that chart. I will find out this Saturday in Phoenix.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 4:27 AM

freakingfast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

Terry,
Here is where I agree yet disagree. I agree with part of your Gold Class comment and that most will find a way to be competitive, my fear is more for the non-gold or new-gold pilots in the area of safety. For the most part anyone can take a .60-.75 two stroke and put it on a WM Mustang or similar plane and break out in Silver or fly it in bronze. Do we really want these people to have the ability to place a 1.08 2 stroke on this size plane? I understand about getting the masses involved, but they can be involved using the current or slightly modified rules. Guys at my field have raced the H9 mustangs and Spits with YS 110 motors and have been pleanty fast as well. I again would state that we need to shoot for minimum changes and not go overboard. What has worked for years just needs a small rework to align the 3 seperate groups in California and neighboring states in an effort to get everyone on similar playing fields. This would allow for more racers to venture out to other areas.
Skids

There is always a "devil in the details". The max size for the WM Mustang with 757" wing area is 70.7 with fudge factor. A 75 would defiantly be too large according to the rules.

I have an OS 70 heli in mine and just now got it screaming with a APC 11X10, it should be middle of the pack gold. It was a long road to get there.
If I knew back then what I know now I may have gone the YS 110s route. The overall cost is the same (engine + pipe) and the fuel use is the same. It is lighter, idles lower and plugs last longer than a gold YS 4s but thats all.

I was looking at the chart, and if the rules are absolute, both the 91 sized 4 stroke and the 91 sized 2 strokes would have to be bumped up to the next level.
Just .1" too much

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 5:06 AM

RocketRob

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FF isn't there a 1% fudge factor which allows for the 91's. I believe so.

Terry I really appreciate and stand behind what you are doing. I don't think the class is/was intended as a one design (motor) class.

And Mark would be hard to beat no matter what he was using!

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 5:16 AM

Tony Pacini

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Let's focus here, guys.

The current wing area table doesn't prevent a novice or newcomer from trying to field an aircraft/engine combination that's over his head. It's the CD's job to police such issues. It's written that way in the rules. Those kinds of problems tend to settle themselves on the test flight, anyway.

Why do people use YS? Simple: because they want to. There's probably a bit of just following the crowd going on as well, but it's quite possible to compete in ANY class (even Gold) without using a big YS, or ANY YS for that matter. It's just EASIER to go fast with a YS. In fact, much of the difference between Silver and Gold is "thumbs" rather than engine or even airframe. More are running World Mustangs with YS 1.10s in Silver than they are in Gold (and they will break out of Gold).

This isn't even an argument for the Bronze and Silver class, because people run regular (non-YS) 4-strokes and a variety of 2-strokes and they can still break out. If people really want to run 2-strokes, and if they select a suitable airframe, then they have a chance to be competitive.

That said, the SWRA table had equalized the 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines years ago, and they haven't had any issues. It shouldn't hurt if SAM and RCPRO do the same thing.

I'd like to see the 3 groups (SAM, SWRA, and RCPRO) stay on the same page with regard to wing area versus engine displacement. It sounds like if we raise the 2-strokes to be equal with the 4-strokes (like the SWRA chart) then specify a definitive area for the YS 1.10 and upcoming 1.15, most will be happy. These are revisions and not major changes, and will probably be received without a whole lot of complaining.

Changing the chart won't level the playing field, either. Those who have the drive, skill, and resources to win will continue to do so. That's just how it is.

Let's not make more out of this than we have to.

< Message edited by Tony Pacini -- 10/15/2009 5:44 AM >

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 5:22 AM

Tommy_Gun

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quote:

What you state has ''worked for years'' now only works for those who run the big YS engines. It no longer works for the folks who prefer 2 strokes. There is nothing to stop a newbee from stuffing a YS 1.20 SC in a WM P-51 and flying it in the gold class. How is that different from an OS 1.08? I knew when I made this chart that I would hear resistance from the YS crowd. They have ruled the Gold class for a long time. I don't have anything against YS engines, I race them myself. I just think it is wrong to have a wing area chart that almost forces someone to use a certain brand of engine to be competitive. The rules have been unbalanced too long in favor of the YS engines. I have been hearing this since I have been in warbird racing. I'm just trying to come up with a chart that doesn't give an advantage to any particular engine. That is not the case with the present chart.
We have break out times in each class. Why not let that control the speed of planes. If the CD thinks someone is flying over their head, he needs to deal with that. It shouldn't matter what engine he has in his plane.

In RCPRO we have been talking about trying to adjust the chart for a while now. With the 1.15 coming out it seemed like a good time to address it. I don't want to just adjust the chart to continue to benefit the same guys who are already dominating the field. I want to try and use this opportunity to make some changes that will improve parity in the charts. I may get shot down but I believe it is worth trying.

The SWRA chart now has the 2 stroke and 4 stroke even. A YS 1.10 would compete with an OS 1.08. Some are talking about just accepting that chart. I will find out this Saturday in Phoenix.

Blessings, Terry

I can't agree here.
We have a couple of guys that have run two strokes in gold and silver with success in our series in Sacramento.
While I will agree that the wing area/ engine displacement chart could use some tweaking. To just suggest that the SWRA has done it so why don't we? Is a mistake in the end.
I personally feel that the main reason you see the YS engine as the most numerous is simply that folks would rather go with what they see others having success with. That's right, what it comes down to is a lack of original thought and the lack of willingness to work to find what works. Other than a YS on a pointy nose.
And Carl you are the exception to the rule, while I may cringe at the sound of your two stroke, I applaud your effort to find that formula that some say does not exist.
Seriously, to bring the displacement of two strokes into parity with four strokes is an unrealistic solution. Remember now, this is MY opinion, take it or leave it.
Oh and before I forget, let the round nosers run an engine from the next wing area bracket up. OR ELSE!

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 6:05 AM

Jimmy Skids

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freakingfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

Terry,
Here is where I agree yet disagree. I agree with part of your Gold Class comment and that most will find a way to be competitive, my fear is more for the non-gold or new-gold pilots in the area of safety. For the most part anyone can take a .60-.75 two stroke and put it on a WM Mustang or similar plane and break out in Silver or fly it in bronze. Do we really want these people to have the ability to place a 1.08 2 stroke on this size plane? I understand about getting the masses involved, but they can be involved using the current or slightly modified rules. Guys at my field have raced the H9 mustangs and Spits with YS 110 motors and have been pleanty fast as well. I again would state that we need to shoot for minimum changes and not go overboard. What has worked for years just needs a small rework to align the 3 seperate groups in California and neighboring states in an effort to get everyone on similar playing fields. This would allow for more racers to venture out to other areas.
Skids

There is always a ''devil in the details''. The max size for the WM Mustang with 757'' wing area is 70.7 with fudge factor. A 75 would defiantly be too large according to the rules.

I have an OS 70 heli in mine and just now got it screaming with a APC 11X10, it should be middle of the pack gold. It was a long road to get there.
If I knew back then what I know now I may have gone the YS 110s route. The overall cost is the same (engine + pipe) and the fuel use is the same. It is lighter, idles lower and plugs last longer than a gold YS 4s but thats all.

I was looking at the chart, and if the rules are absolute, both the 91 sized 4 stroke and the 91 sized 2 strokes would have to be bumped up to the next level.
Just .1'' too much

Freakingfast,

I beg to differ with some of what you said. My YS's idle quite low and seldom do I change plugs. I've practiced for two gold races and run said races with never changing a plug. Currently there is a .01 fudge factor which get's the .91, etc in.

My proposal for change would have a 75 two stroke running 490 square inches so I'm confused by your statement. A 75 would be just fine and compete well in silver on a WM without a pipe from what I have seen. I would also believe that it could hang in gold with a pipe, but this is just a guess.

Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 7:02 AM

freakingfast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

Freakingfast,

I beg to differ with some of what you said. My YS's idle quite low and seldom do I change plugs. I've practiced for two gold races and run said races with never changing a plug. Currently there is a .01 fudge factor which get's the .91, etc in.

My proposal for change would have a 75 two stroke running 490 square inches so I'm confused by your statement. A 75 would be just fine and compete well in silver on a WM without a pipe from what I have seen. I would also believe that it could hang in gold with a pipe, but this is just a guess.

Skids

Jimmy, you and a few others may have it down to a science on plugs, but some other guys put fresh plugs in a lot and still have them go bad one or two races later (gold).

Regarding the 75, I was referring to the current sams rules, not the different proposals being floated.

My math was in error on the 91, it would be only .0091" short, a .011 fudge factor would work, but now that's getting silly.

Your 75 & 490 proposal would be closer 2 & 4 cycle match up. The gold motor 2 c would need to be a bit more than the run of the mill sport motor on a pipe (like a heli or Webra speed red head) but very doable.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 7:13 AM

freakingfast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

And Carl you are the exception to the rule, while I may cringe at the sound of your two stroke,

Tommy,
Seriously, you cant even hear my muffled tuned engine running with all those open header 4 bangers around at the start.

I can only see the prop turning and hope it's running right. It's like I'm running a feaking electric when I'm near you guys.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 3:28 PM

still4given

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It' almost funny. All of the guys who are arguing that you can be competitive with a two stroke, are all running YS engines in their birds. I understand why they don't want to change things. They are already set up and have the advantage. The only change I see being asked for by the YS crowd is an adjustment so they won't have to run the upcoming 1.15 as a 1.20. They are resisting the idea that they may have to compete with an equally powerful 2 stroke.

I agree that a 2 stroke can be competitive in silver with the right setup but that still doesn't mean the playing field is level. You can stick a YS 1.10 in just about anything and run at the front in silver, even on of those radial nosed jobs. It shouldn't be tougher to compete with a 2 stroke than a 4 stroke.

I don't know what the "Mark" you guys speak of is running as a 2 stroke, but the only 2 strokes I've seen be competitive in Gold are the Nelsons on a really small, well designed plane, and from what I've heard, some venues won't allow them.

I knew when I was creating that chart that it would never get past the masses. Most of the guys who are running things, are avid racers, and most have spent a lot of time and money getting set up with what they have now. It is understandable that they would resist that which would give the competition more options. However if we adopt the SWRA chart, you will start seeing a lot of 2 strokes in gold because it will give the edge to them IMO. You could stick a Moki 2.10 in just about any 60 size warbird and tear the course up.

I created the chart to stir discussion. We are having that and that is good.

I agree with Tony. The best thing would be if we could all use the same chart.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 4:39 PM

Jimmy Skids

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I in no way have taken up the agruement that you can be competitive or not be competitive using the current chart. The chart I proposed for discussion was to put the engines at a closer relationship and that is all. I will admit that I prefer YS motors to that of a two stroke but draw the line when someone states that competition will increase once you allow more two strokes. I can only speak of my own personal racing experience, but when I race; I race the planes in the air and the breakout clock. I've raced using YS engines for years and have seen many give up on them because they can't get them to run. So for those stating that YS's have an advantage then it seems more like sour grapes than anything else. Competition isn't based upon what's under the hood, it's based upon pilot and clock. There are pleanty of combinations that already will work in all three classes where I race either two or four stroke. My original reason for chiming in was to bring the 3 groups in line.

I again would state that we need to keep the changes simple to keep what we have going in the right direction and not rebuild the wheel.

Jimmy Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 5:30 PM

Jimmy Skids

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[/quote]

Jimmy, you and a few others may have it down to a science on plugs, but some other guys put fresh plugs in a lot and still have them go bad one or two races later (gold).

Regarding the 75, I was referring to the current sams rules, not the different proposals being floated.

Your 75 & 490 proposal would be closer 2 & 4 cycle match up. The gold motor 2 c would need to be a bit more than the run of the mill sport motor on a pipe (like a heli or Webra speed red head) but very doable.

[/quote]

Not really science, just knowing what is right for the motor and what is not. Even two strokes burn plugs when they aren't set right. Just like any other competitive sport, venture, etc. there is a learning curve and eventually I learned enough from my many mistakes to get better at making my motors run.

As for the 75 this is why I suggested moving down the wing area so that we could get the Bay Area racers who are running 75's on WM mustangs to race with us.

To everyone, I pose the question. Are we trying to get more gold racers or are we trying to make it easier for others to join racing in the lower ranks? If it is to add Gold pilots then lets throw away the wing area to displacement (joking here). If it is to build racing as a whole (or making it easier for new racers to come in) then tweak the chart a little bit to make it so that the three areas can race together and leave it at that.

Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 6:24 PM

still4given

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Hi Jim,

No sour grapes here, I fly YS. I actually think you did a good job matching up engine sizes up the the 120 4 stroke. After that you list starts falling apart. What is the reason for stopping the 2 stroke at 1.20? I know the old chart stops there but that was because of the 2-1 ratio they used. Since we agree that 2-1 is no longer a reasonable comparison, power wise, I think it is time to allow some of the larger 2 strokes to be used as well. If you would have continued with ratios you were using the 2 stroke side would have gone up to at least 1.80 and an OS 1.08 would be in a reasonable sized plane.

I'm enjoying the discussion and learning as I go since this has caused me do a bit of investigating. I'm looking forward to what this could mean for our racing events.

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 6:29 PM

ChrisAttebery

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Mark Summich is running an OS 91 ducted fan motor on a Strega. It is ballistic. He put a lap on my YS 110 powered Strega in an 8 lap race.

DF motors are NOT in the same league as the run of the mill sport 2 strokes. You have to run an APC prop over it's recommended rpm limit to get a big enough prop to handle the load of the motor. He is using an 11x10 clipped to 10" because a standard 10x10 isn't strong enough.

The only other two stroke option that would be competitive is a Heli motor as FF has tried. If the wing areas were lowered enough that a 90 heli motor could be used in a WM P-51 then I think it would be a fair fight vs the YS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

I don't know what the ''Mark'' you guys speak of is running as a 2 stroke, but the only 2 strokes I've seen be competitive in Gold are the Nelsons on a really small, well designed plane, and from what I've heard, some venues won't allow them.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 6:38 PM

ChrisAttebery

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Jim,

I think you're heading in th right direction. If you allow the Bay Area/ Fresno group to run our stock 75 class with the 580" wing area you'll attract a few more pilots. I would think that you could throw a PSPEC pipe on one and be capable of breaking out in silver. They are never going to be a Gold racer.

The 120 class we have allows YS engines up to 120 to fly a 550" wing. That should be competive in Gold.

Most of the Unlimiteds will never qualify for your series. It sounds like a 46 modifed would probably be a bit fast for Bronze and a bit slow for Silver.

Again, my $.02

Chris

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids
As for the 75 this is why I suggested moving down the wing area so that we could get the Bay Area racers who are running 75's on WM mustangs to race with us.

To everyone, I pose the question. Are we trying to get more gold racers or are we trying to make it easier for others to join racing in the lower ranks? If it is to add Gold pilots then lets throw away the wing area to displacement (joking here). If it is to build racing as a whole (or making it easier for new racers to come in) then tweak the chart a little bit to make it so that the three areas can race together and leave it at that.

Skids

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 7:51 PM

still4given

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

Mark Summich is running an OS 91 ducted fan motor on a Strega. It is ballistic. He put a lap on my YS 110 powered Strega in an 8 lap race.

DF motors are NOT in the same league as the run of the mill sport 2 strokes. You have to run an APC prop over it's recommended rpm limit to get a big enough prop to handle the load of the motor. He is using an 11x10 clipped to 10'' because a standard 10x10 isn't strong enough.

The only other two stroke option that would be competitive is a Heli motor as FF has tried. If the wing areas were lowered enough that a 90 heli motor could be used in a WM P-51 then I think it would be a fair fight vs the YS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

I don't know what the ''Mark'' you guys speak of is running as a 2 stroke, but the only 2 strokes I've seen be competitive in Gold are the Nelsons on a really small, well designed plane, and from what I've heard, some venues won't allow them.

Mark is obviously not running that at SAMS. First, it's a Strega and second, on their chart you have to have 650 inches to run a 91. Jim must come and race at your field.

I'll bet that Strega flies like it's on rails with that 91 in there. I'd love to see that!

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 9:13 PM

RocketRob

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Chris,
The DF motors are to 2strokes almost what the YS are to 4stroke. And no one is stopping anyone from making their own props from CF continous strand for safety reasons or going to an existing CF prop vendor.

The small displacement .45-.46 DF motors are still not on par with a Nelson .40 - power or weight or frontal area wise.

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 10:33 PM

ChrisAttebery

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He did up until the last race. He built a wing specifically to meet the SAMS wing area rule. It is to the point of being "scarey fast".

Now he's got a VQ MIG-3 with a YS110S. Apparently it's "fast enough", he broke out at least twice in it's debut.

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

Mark is obviously not running that at SAMS. First, it's a Strega and second, on their chart you have to have 650 inches to run a 91. Jim must come and race at your field.

I'll bet that Strega flies like it's on rails with that 91 in there. I'd love to see that!

Blessings, Terry

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RE: Two Day Warbird Race in Sacramento - 10/15/2009 10:36 PM

Jimmy Skids

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quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

Mark Summich is running an OS 91 ducted fan motor on a Strega. It is ballistic. He put a lap on my YS 110 powered Strega in an 8 lap race.

DF motors are NOT in the same league as the run of the mill sport 2 strokes. You have to run an APC prop over it's recommended rpm limit to get a big enough prop to handle the load of the motor. He is using an 11x10 clipped to 10'' because a standard 10x10 isn't strong enough.

The only other two stroke option that would be competitive is a Heli motor as FF has tried. If the wing areas were lowered enough that a 90 heli motor could be used in a WM P-51 then I think it would be a fair fight vs the YS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

I don't know what the ''Mark'' you guys speak of is running as a 2 stroke, but the only 2 strokes I've seen be competitive in Gold are the Nelsons on a really small, well designed plane, and from what I've heard, some venues won't allow them.

Mark is obviously not running that at SAMS. First, it's a Strega and second, on their chart you have to have 650 inches to run a 91. Jim must come and race at your field.

I'll bet that Strega flies like it's on rails with that 91 in there. I'd love to see that!

Blessings, Terry

Terry,

Mark was running it at SAMS and it (PM Streaga) had a special designed wing to make it meet the area requirements.... Mark flew a VQ Mig (I believe) at the last race with another special designed wing with a YS 110 and did very well. He commented to me that he was very happy with the YS 4 stroke and how easy it was to manage. Someone earlier mentioned that Mark is hard to beat, and I would also say that he is an excellent pilot and his equipment always is in the top performers. The guy flat out is hard to beat.

You should try to make a SAM's event some time. We have the Tango coming up on Oct. 25th, it's a Silver only race where the pilots brackets keep getting smaller until we're down to the best of the best going head to head to crown a champion. Lots of fun and it's a ton different than a "normal" race. I plan to fly a WM VooDoo with a YS 91. Don't know if I'll be able to keep up with all those 110's, but sure going to try.

Skids

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