quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

OK I have just looked at the rules for the SAMs Warbird racing and the RCPRO rules for the same.

http://www.sacramento-rc-flyers.org/documents/SAM_Warbird_Racing_Rules.pdf

http://www.rcpro.org/html/rules/warbird_racing/warbird_racing_rules.htm

I see NOTHING that says you can't use a high performance ( Jett, Nelson, etc. ) two stroke in either set of rules.

There is only the idle rule which is a safety consideration.

As some of you have pointed out. There are regular sport four strokes and then there are YS four strokes.
In that same vein, there are sport two strokes and then you have the other brands of more powerful two strokes.

So.....whats all the deal?!

I agree that the chart can stand a little tweaking as Skids has suggested .
But drastic sweeping changes are to be avoided in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: still4given

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

OK I have just looked at the rules for the SAMs Warbird racing and the RCPRO rules for the same.

http://www.sacramento-rc-flyers.org/documents/SAM_Warbird_Racing_Rules.pdf

http://www.rcpro.org/html/rules/warbird_racing/warbird_racing_rules.htm

I see NOTHING that says you can't use a high performance ( Jett, Nelson, etc. ) two stroke in either set of rules.

There is only the idle rule which is a safety consideration.

As some of you have pointed out. There are regular sport four strokes and then there are YS four strokes.
In that same vein, there are sport two strokes and then you have the other brands of more powerful two strokes.

So.....whats all the deal?!

I agree that the chart can stand a little tweaking as Skids has suggested .
But drastic sweeping changes are to be avoided in my opinion.

The rule that an engine has to idle ''IS'' what says you can't use a Nelson, Jett. Tell me, was there an actual incident with a warbird that would not idle that set that rule in motion? I can show you video of a SAMS race where the guys are holding a YS powered plane as the pilot runs it up to full throttle before releasing it and planes landing dead stick because they would be too fast to land if running, How is this different from a plane with a Nelson that is released full throttle and the engine killed before landing. They can hide behind the ''safety'' statement, but from what I can see, that rule was imposed to keep out Q500 and Q40 engines.

It's no surprise that most of the folks who are suggesting that we don't make sweeping changes are currently flying YS engines. If we are going to fix this, let's fix it, not just put a band-aid on it. Having a wing area chart that gives a huge edge to one brand of engine is not in the spirit of the fairness.

Blessing, Terry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tony Pacini


Forget thinking and intent. Go by how the rules read, that's all you've got. The idle rule isn't and wasn't about safety. The next thing I'll hear is that the SAM guys ruled out ''T'' aircraft (trainers) becase of safety. Spare me, I know otherwise.

[/quote

actually The rules read something like all racers had to either see combat during ww2 or have raced in the reno unlimited class. So if you can document your trainer good otherwise leAve your trainers at home. ;-p

Not About safety this time.



_____________________________

Todd "Teddy Bear" Chandler
.................Respect the Bear.

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(in reply to Tony Pacini)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tony Pacini

''Tony,

I have a Nelson QM40 with a Q500 air valve on it. I have also run that motor with an OS heli carb. It won't idle below about 7.5k. One lean run and that Nelson liner is shot. IMHO they are high strung. Maybe the Q500 motor isn't as bad though.

I think the intent is that you don't have guys spending $$$ and/or hours and hours in the shop reworking motors. I did that with my boat motors and believe me, you don't want that. You will have mass exodus as only the single guys or those with $$$ will be able to keep up.

You can take a box stock YS and run it on 55% and it will still idle at ~2800 and be capable of breakout. The only guys breaking them are the ones that push them WAY too hard or haven't learned to tune them.

Personally, I think you guys can dump the wing area rules and allow run what you brung. You have a breakout. It will control speeds all by itself.

In our series there is no breakout, so our rules have to be more strict on what meets the rules.''

Nelsons are not high strung. They are easier to operate and provide longer service life than most sport motors. If you tear one up, you're using it wrong. PERIOD.

Forget thinking and intent. Go by how the rules read, that's all you've got. The idle rule isn't and wasn't about safety. The next thing I'll hear is that the SAM guys ruled out ''T'' aircraft (trainers) becase of safety. Spare me, I know otherwise.

Modifications are allowed as are unlimited nitro, any engine configuration (even rear intake), tuned pipes, and open headers. Nobody can pretend that this is a ''sport'' event. If you want to run stock stuff and not push it, you can easily race in Bronze and Silver. It's expected that Silver should have the greatest participation. Since it's really not worth the hassle to show up with a killer motor, most don't do it. There's little benefit now since the Gold breakout keeps the fastest guys from winning, anyway.

How can you NOT have a breakout? If you're using engines with over .40CID and cannot meet AMA's setback guidelines (as most clubs can't), you need a waiver from your AMA District VP to hold a race. Our standing waiver requires that we have a Gold breakout. How are you guys getting around this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teddy_Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tony Pacini


Forget thinking and intent. Go by how the rules read, that's all you've got. The idle rule isn't and wasn't about safety. The next thing I'll hear is that the SAM guys ruled out ''T'' aircraft (trainers) becase of safety. Spare me, I know otherwise.

[/quote

actually The rules read something like all racers had to either see combat during ww2 or have raced in the reno unlimited class. So if you can document your trainer good otherwise leAve your trainers at home. ;-p

Not About safety this time.

T-bear,
Trainers were spelled out in the rules because they didn't meet the "intent" of Warbird racing by the CD's at SAM's. The Az. guys brought some really fast and nice trainers out, but the CD's felt that the did not meet the intent of what Warbird racing is all about and as such revised the rules to spell out that they were not allowed for the following years races. This is pretty much the same as what has been said about the PM Strega. Now some may whine, but in both cases the planes were allowed to race at the events until the rule changes were made and pilots had been notified. Some may not like it, but it is what it is.
Skids

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(in reply to Teddy_Bear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

This is for Jake W.

The TMT was a blast! There were approx 26 pilots that showed for this all Silver class racing day.
In a nutshell for my day.
First, Second, B/O, B/O. Flying the Critical Mass
Then there was a few planes lost for various reasons. Radio problems, pilot error, moving pylons, and one horrific midair that scared the bejeezuz outta me. Dale got first....go figure and a a few other dweebs placed close behind him in the standings.

Jake, YOU SHOULDA BEEN THERE!

Jake; I made it all the way to the semi finals were my Strega decided to breakout, Ed had a mid-air were he lost his Miss America.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steady Steve

Jake; I made it all the way to the semi finals were my Strega decided to breakout, Ed had a mid-air were he lost his Miss America.

I think it was with George's P M Strega

quote:

Gents,

Here is a comparison of the current rules with the 115 4c added (straight linear interpolation) versus a 1.5x multiplier on the 2c displacements. I rounded to the nearest 1/100th of a cu. in. This makes the 2c have 75% of the displacement of the 4c.

Maybe there could be a grace year so the 115 4c would be legal in airplanes with 513+ wing areas or we could slide the wing area scale to accommodate them.

Not sure how the formatting will come thru until I post this. Here goes.

Mark


Current rules with 115 added Proposed 1.5x incr to 2c disp
2c disp 4c disp Min sq. in. 2c disp 4c disp Min sq. in.
0.40 0.80 400 0.60 0.80 400
0.45 0.90 438 0.68 0.90 438
0.50 1.00 475 0.75 1.00 475
0.55 1.10 513 0.83 1.10 513
0.58 1.15 532 0.87 1.15 532
0.60 1.20 550 0.90 1.20 550
0.65 1.30 567 0.98 1.30 567
0.70 1.40 585 1.05 1.40 585
0.75 1.50 602 1.13 1.50 602
0.80 1.60 620 1.20 1.60 620
0.90 1.80 650 1.35 1.80 650
1.08 2.16 700 1.62 2.16 700
1.20 2.40 735 1.80 2.40 735

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