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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 3/30/2012 8:32 PM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		Tony, let us know how it goes. Very interested in the pumped 60NX too!

I've been thinking to get a P7 and working on the engine choice... Have the YS60FS, OS 61SF-P, and Jett 60 that might work. Jett 60 is small case and same weight as Evo. But they are timed for high RPM and also no pump.

Does this plane come out nose heavy for most who do not use the light (~400g) 60NX? How about 61SF-P (close to 600g)? Nose heavy? Is there room to move equipment around without major hacking?



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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/1/2012 2:31 AM   
hook57


 

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Status: offline 		Looks great Ed. I had the Macs on my O.S FX but it developed a crack in the bend so I'm looking at putting the Mac pipe on it this year. Does anyone know whether the standard or the long header is used for the pipe (for clearance under the wing I'm thinking). Thanks for any input here guys.
Mark

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/1/2012 3:13 AM   
lfinney


 

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Status: offline 		i examined my p7 tonite i held the tail up to a bright light, and looked inside to the rear, there are voids between wood insert on rudder post, i am going to inject glue into gaps and clamp overnite..glad i checked! glue is cheaper......

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/1/2012 3:54 AM   
Tim Redelman



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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/1/2012 1:47 PM   
hook57


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Redelman

long Header Mark.

Tim


I suspected as much, mucho gracias Tim!
See you at FVAC in May?
Mark

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/2/2012 12:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		I fixed (rehinged) the rudder and sealed the gap this time. So, been flying and starting to trim it out, it's a nice flyer. Yesterday the retracts gave me issues. I installed Eflite electrics and they have worked very well so far, I really like the plug and play. But yesterday the right main didn't want to extend during flight. Fortunately after cycling the gear several times, it extended. Once on the ground, I cycled the gear, it retracted fine but wouldn't extend. So I decided to troubleshoot it at the field and I learned a few things. First, the runway (grass) was pretty wet from the rain the night before and the morning dew. When I pulled unit out and disassembled it, it was somewhat wet. So I figured that some moisture got into the electronics. Next, I could see that the two very tiny micro switches were pretty dirty. After cleaning them and looking at the grime on the rag, I could see that the grime was a little oily. I remember using some light machine oil on the jackscrews when the units were new, I can now see that this was a mistake as we all know that oil attracts dirt. So after cleaning everything, I cycled the unit a few times and it worked again, or so I thought. I reassembled the unit and tried to cycle it and no go.
Being the unit was in the extended position, and really wanting to fly, I reinstalled it in the wing and left the leads disconnected from the Rx. Flying the Phoenix with the gear down just doesn't have the kick as when the gear is retracted.

A little later at home, the right gear still didn't want to work, so I pulled it apart again and when comparing it to the left gear, I could see that the brass piece that rides on the jackscrew was misadjusted and was too tight against the frame when retracted. After a minor adjustment the gear was working again. So lessons learned, keep them dry, keep them clean, and if you take them apart, be sure to adjust them properly.

One question I do have, would it be possible to spray some silicone on the board that contains the two switches to help keep moisture off of them? Or does somebody have another way to keep the switches dry? TIA!

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/2/2012 7:57 PM   
edp



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Right main? ME TOO I had the same thing happen also. The grass was a wet w/ dew. I took mine out and cleaned/dried them out and put a touch of dielectric grease to the brass slides only. I haven't been able to go back out as the weather turned lousy again. Sometimes, I think my B&D's were simpler. I am waiting to see what Robart brings out at Toledo next week in their electric line.


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/3/2012 12:39 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		Hmmm......interesting it was also the right gear. Maybe it has something to do with the airflow pattern off the prop? I like the idea of using a little grease on the brass slides. They are pretty well hidden so hopefully dirt will have a harder time finding its way in. I think the way for making the mains more reliable is to protect the two tiny contact switches from dirt/moisture. I was thinking that maybe a small piece of tape over the switches might help. If I have to take them apart again, I might try that. Clear packing tape is very thin and shouldn't cause any binding problems. Has anybody else experienced any problems with the main gear?

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/3/2012 4:36 PM   
pitstop000



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FB Look into CorrosionX, great for waterproofing electronics like servos, receivers etc.
 
I first saw this product years ago at the WRAM show, I believe it was Aerotrend Products that was doing the presentation.

They had a fish tank filled with water and had submerged servos and receivers running in the water. Great Stuff !!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Bird

One question I do have, would it be possible to spray some silicone on the board that contains the two switches to help keep moisture off of them? Or does somebody have another way to keep the switches dry? TIA!

FB



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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/4/2012 11:18 PM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		I've been reading back on the thread and noticed quite a few reports of various minor issues with the Eflite retracts. Looks like some setup mods and solder/silicon/grease are in order to make them reliable.

For those who have the Eflites would you recommend them, or would you recommend going back to the Robarts or other pneumatic setup? I am tempted to try electric retracts for convenience but looks like they are not as dependent as expected.

For those who have Robart/Springair/Roms would you recommend the pneumatic setup for P7? Do the gears have to be down during transport and storage?

Thanks!




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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/5/2012 1:11 AM   
edp



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Status: offline 		These are the first generation from e-flight so I'll bet they will get better. It is a very simple plug and play system and no worries about an air leak. They are quite rugged as I had flame out on take off and had to do a fast 180, hitting the only deep rut we had with my P7( too lean and the wrong plug ) I didn't tear up the aircraft but broke the PC board in the nose gear. None of the gear bent and no marks on the bottom of the nose. I say it was a fair trade off. I had to order a new nose unit. I bolted the new one in and went flying. I transport mine w/ the gear up and in a wing bag my wife makes.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/5/2012 2:21 AM   
Free Bird


 

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quote:

These are the first generation from e-flight so I'll bet they will get better. It is a very simple plug and play system and no worries about an air leak. They are quite rugged as I had flame out on take off and had to do a fast 180, hitting the only deep rut we had with my P7( too lean and the wrong plug ) I didn't tear up the aircraft but broke the PC board in the nose gear. None of the gear bent and no marks on the bottom of the nose. I say it was a fair trade off. I had to order a new nose unit. I bolted the new one in and went flying. I transport mine w/ the gear up and in a wing bag my wife makes.


I would have to agree with the above. The plug and play aspect of the retracts is very cool and super easy! No adjustments required, no pushrods, no tank, no valve, no airlines, no leaks, all good stuff. And, I really like the fact that they don't slam up or down. Like any new product, there is a learning curve, and these are no different. Yes, my nose gear wires broke, but it was a simple fix and haven't given me any other problems yet. Would I buy another set? Most definitly! I also store my P7 with the gear retracted.

Paul - thanks for the info, I'll be checking that out.

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/5/2012 5:17 AM   
NM2K


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Bird

quote:

These are the first generation from e-flight so I'll bet they will get better. It is a very simple plug and play system and no worries about an air leak. They are quite rugged as I had flame out on take off and had to do a fast 180, hitting the only deep rut we had with my P7( too lean and the wrong plug ) I didn't tear up the aircraft but broke the PC board in the nose gear. None of the gear bent and no marks on the bottom of the nose. I say it was a fair trade off. I had to order a new nose unit. I bolted the new one in and went flying. I transport mine w/ the gear up and in a wing bag my wife makes.


I would have to agree with the above. The plug and play aspect of the retracts is very cool and super easy! No adjustments required, no pushrods, no tank, no valve, no airlines, no leaks, all good stuff. And, I really like the fact that they don't slam up or down. Like any new product, there is a learning curve, and these are no different. Yes, my nose gear wires broke, but it was a simple fix and haven't given me any other problems yet. Would I buy another set? Most definitly! I also store my P7 with the gear retracted.

Paul - thanks for the info, I'll be checking that out.
utt
FB




I used Roms back in the late seventies and early eighties. I never had a leak problem because I never cut an airline off the cylinder or shuttle valve fittings with an Xacto knife. My lines never blew off. I never had a valving problem or air tank problem. If you are the first owner/user of a Rom-Air system, it will perform flawlessly - unless you do something really stupid. If you are the type that is ham fisted and is prone to use a hammer to make minor adjustments, skip the Rom gear. They require a touch of finesse and TLC. I used silicone grease stick in place of refrigerant oil and compressed air in place of Freon. One hundred PSI in the air tank would provide me with 5-6 retract/extension cycles, without fail.


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/5/2012 3:19 PM   
edp



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Status: offline 		Ed,
Although this is not the right forum, I simply state electrics are easier to use. Run one wire and your done. I have Rhoms, Robarts and B&D air systems in my pattern and scale birds and no leaks. I also had to run lines to gear and valves then rig the servo to the valve w/o any binding and over throw. Plug and play is the way to go in the 21st century.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/5/2012 4:44 PM   
NM2K


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: edp

Ed,
Although this is not the right forum, I simply state electrics are easier to use. Run one wire and your done. I have Rhoms, Robarts and B&D air systems in my pattern and scale birds and no leaks. I also had to run lines to gear and valves then rig the servo to the valve w/o any binding and over throw. Plug and play is the way to go in the 21st century.




I heard that. But are they really easier when you have to worry about them being disabled because of dew, etc.?

I always wanted a set of Kraft electric retracts, but never got around to buying them. I commited to Roms because that is the brand that the local experts had the best experienced with. I'm sure that the manufacturer of your brand will get it right after a while. One thing that I would insist upon when using electric retracts would be that they be powered by a separate battery pack.


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 1:23 AM   
tomfiorentino


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys...take a look at this picture please...

This is a Robart nosewheel retract but it doesn't line up with the fuse properly. The trunion is off center!

I was going to cut the fuse with the supplied template, but in double checking things I noticed it is off center.

I don't think I can cut the fuse for the strut off center, because then the nosewheel won't fit properly in the coutout that is in the leading edge of the wing.

One more thing which can't be seen from the photo, but the air cylinder of the retract bottoms out in the fuselage bulkhead before the aluminum mount lays flat on the landing gear blocks (there is a cutout on the bulkhead to accept the air cylinder). Should the trailing edge of the retract bracket sit higher in the fuse so as to get the nosewheel to totally recess?

I'm having trouble lining this all up...sorry.

Who has a thought?

Thanks,

Tom

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 1:25 AM   
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Status: offline 		And this is what it looks like, for reference, when I line the strut up so the nosewheel will fit properly. You can see how it is off center...

Tom

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 6:01 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		Looks like the strut they sent you should have one more wind in the coil. That looks like it would align everything correctly.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 6:51 AM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		So it looks like despite some early product flaws, those that used the e-retracts still like them over the air systems for of the plug and play aspect. I think I'm in this camp too. As Ed said Pneumatics are still good but nice to try something new.

I'm also looking forward to new electrics that are coming out from Robart... hopefully they will have a suitable set for the P7 released at Toledo (and without major flaws!) The Robarts will be built on their existing products so should be a drop fit. Any more info on these?





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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 2:02 PM   
edp



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Status: offline 		Huang,
Here some pics of my setup. I hope this will help. Also remember to beef up the main gear mounts also.
Ed

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 2:33 PM   
NM2K


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I do agree that eventually the electric units will win out in every respect, but we're not quite there yet.


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 3:34 PM   
Free Bird


 

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quote:

Looks like the strut they sent you should have one more wind in the coil. That looks like it would align everything correctly.


Tony,

I think you mean you LESS coil as another coil would push the gear leg further from center, take a look at Ed's pics above.

Ed - how did you beef up the main gear mounts? You really can't get in there.

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 8:16 PM   
edp



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I'll take pics tomorrow as the bird is packed up in my truck. A gusset was added underneath and epoxy and milled fibers were added to the joints. They survived the hasty landing w/o damage.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/6/2012 9:56 PM   
edp



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I found these from a post I placed a while ago in a P7 assembly forum.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 4/7/2012 5:51 AM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		Ed, thanks for sharing the photos! Your install looks great.
Where is this P7 assembly forum?
Matt

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