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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/23/2012 6:06 AM   
pitstop000



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quote:

ORIGINAL: edp

How is this for stopped working?




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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/23/2012 11:36 AM   
edp



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I let out the "Magic Smoke" from the PC board. The gear was intermittent in flight so I cycled them on the bench. The left main just sang, then poof. I was hitting the power switch and grabbing a screw driver at the same time. I didn't hurt the wing. After this, I'm sticking to my B&Ds

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/23/2012 2:38 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		Ed,

I'm on my last leg (pun not intended) with the Eflite retracts. On my last outing, the nose gear leg broke in the trunnion at the set screw. Of course I found out when I lowered the gear for landing and saw the nose gear dangling in the wind hanging by the steering cables. Needless to say, another belly landing was in order.

To try and provide some vibration isolation, I smeared a layer of silicone (about 3/32") on the mount lugs and let it cure overnight. I'm going out today and see if it helps. Will report back later.

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/24/2012 7:13 AM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		It amazes me how e-flite could produce such a product and still selling them at these prices. They must have a room full of them at customer service and still be making money.

The design was likely made for electric planes, and they never really considered operating environment of glow engines (they're "e-flite" after all). The original small 10-15 size one worked great, too bad the large ones have so many problems.

Jason Shulman did reply via PM about his new electric retracts. He is testing them in Don Lowe's Phoenix 7. He is still getting parts for the wire struts and steering arm mechanism (arm with slider for pushrod), so price and availability still unknown. From the photos posted they look like the PZ retracts, but Jason's will be complete with nose steering.

I'll probably test out the Robart nose gear. I'll also test out some of the "Chinatracts" for the mains. PZ and ChangeSun both produce electric retracts for this size range (PZ-15091M and CS-46-V2). They are widely used by the electric warbard crowd. They might work for the mains. At $8~15 each there's not much to lose...

FB, let us know how your silicon mount works out...

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/24/2012 11:47 AM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		Yesterday I put in 5 flights and not a single hiccup! This was the first outing (ever) where there were no issues with the gear. Only time will tell how long they'll keep on working. I think I'm going to give the same treatment to the mains. I'll be flying all day Saturday, so it'll be a good test of the gear. More to come.....

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/24/2012 6:54 PM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		Great to hear!! That might be the simple solution to be able to use the e-flite. Let us know how it goes Sat!




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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 5/24/2012 9:11 PM   
hook57


 

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Status: offline 		FB, when you get trime a pic of how you did this would serve us well! Keep us posted.
Mark

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/7/2012 9:22 PM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		FB, how's the retracts working out with the silicon treatment?

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/8/2012 12:27 AM   
JoeMamma



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Status: offline 		I believe I'm all through with EFlite electric retracts.

I have six sets of them. Hey..........at least they are fairly consistant as five of six sets have failed.

Five of these planes are all equipped with glow motors. The only retract set that's still working for me without any problems is on my twin electric powered EFlite Deuces Wild.

One thing I've discovered is the EFlite's sure don't like any kind of vibration as witnessed by the broken wires in the picture. This wire failure has happened twice. Once on my Hangar 9 Jackal and again on my Phoenix 7.

I used some clear silicone applied to the wires (see picture) and so far the wires haven't broken, but, each of the units has still failed to work at times. Sooooooo, back to Horizon they went. The last set I sent to them the tech said if I used that "glue" (glue ??) anymore, my warranty will be void. I noticed on the latest versions of the EFlite retracts they are now using some kind of a hard "China" glue to keep these wires from breaking.

I have a set of Down & Locked electric retracts on a Top Flite 310 Cessna twin. They were a little pricey, but are still working without any problems. The electrical control unit is remote on the Down & Locked retracts. On this Cessna I have this retract electrical control unit soft-mounted. The control unit on the EFlites is mounted directly into the retracts. This could be part of the problem with the EFlites.

One of the Horizon techs said maybe my props aren't balanced correctly. I said, hey, I've been in this hobby for 40+ years and I do believe I know how to balance a prop and spinner.

Joe M.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/11/2012 12:16 PM   
Free Bird


 

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Status: offline 		I've put a couple more flights on my P7 and so far so good. All I did was to smear a coat of GE silicone about 3/32 thick on the mount lugs of the unit. You could make it thicker if desired. I also used PFM adhesive to secure the wires so they wouldn't break off.

FB

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/11/2012 7:29 PM   
stuntflyr



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Bird

 I also used PFM adhesive to secure the wires so they wouldn't break off.

FB


Pure F***ing Magic?
Chris...



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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/12/2012 2:44 AM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		So I received the Robart electric nose gear last week and immediately realized (contrary to what their customer service stated at the time) that this nose gear can't operate alone. The robart e-retracts do not work like a servo. The retract only has +/- wires for the motor; it has no control unit or signal line. It needs to be plugged into a "control box" which is an electrical unit little bit bigger than the size of an old PCM receiver. The list price of a control unit? Another $107 large.

The good about this setup is it will likely be very resistant to vibration as the gear itself does not contain a PCB or other electrical components except the motor that drives the worm gear. I had a chance to chat with one of the engineers at Robart, he stated that a lot of the other units had issues with vibration so they went with the separate control box mounted inside the plane away from the elements.

If you purchase the mains the control box is included, so if going with Robart you are best to get the entire tricycle unit ($$$). The plus side is the unit looks very well made. If you read their press release, Robart uses their existing retract mechanism, and Down & Locked makes the electrical unit, so they're probably similar to the Down & Locked that Joe has.

Looks like the options for e-retracts so far are: (1) shell out $400 for a set of Robarts which are designed to take vibration (2) spend $185 for e-flites, silicon the rails and hope for the best, or (3) spend $45 for three of Chinatracts from PZ and make the steering mechanism yourself...




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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 6/12/2012 1:02 PM   
JoeMamma



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Huang

So I received the Robart electric nose gear last week and immediately realized (contrary to what their customer service stated at the time) that this nose gear can't operate alone. The robart e-retracts do not work like a servo. The retract only has +/- wires for the motor; it has no control unit or signal line. It needs to be plugged into a ''control box'' which is an electrical unit little bit bigger than the size of an old PCM receiver. The list price of a control unit? Another $107 large.

The good about this setup is it will likely be very resistant to vibration as the gear itself does not contain a PCB or other electrical components except the motor that drives the worm gear. I had a chance to chat with one of the engineers at Robart, he stated that a lot of the other units had issues with vibration so they went with the separate control box mounted inside the plane away from the elements.

If you purchase the mains the control box is included, so if going with Robart you are best to get the entire tricycle unit ($$$). The plus side is the unit looks very well made. If you read their press release, Robart uses their existing retract mechanism, and Down & Locked makes the electrical unit, so they're probably similar to the Down & Locked that Joe has.

Looks like the options for e-retracts so far are: (1) shell out $400 for a set of Robarts which are designed to take vibration (2) spend $185 for e-flites, silicon the rails and hope for the best, or (3) spend $45 for three of Chinatracts from PZ and make the steering mechanism yourself...





I hear Ya. ! I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks for something that I can depend on. I agree with your comment about EFlite vibration problems.

I have spent a lot of bucks on a lot of EFlite products and they are (for the most part) good products. That is, except for the electric retracts. I simply can't trust them anymore.

As I stated earlier I have six sets of them, and during every flight I'm wondering if they will come back down. Maybe they can print this on the EFlite retract shipping box: What goes up, must come down.........except for EFlite electric retracts.

In my own opinion, until they do a major design change, the EFlite retracts should only be used on electric powered planes up to about 10-11 pounds.

Another plus when using a separate Down & Locked control unit: if you have gear doors, you can program in a timed, sequential gear door opening and closing.

Joe M.


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/9/2012 10:12 PM   
markhamregular



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Status: offline 		Do you guys think an OS75 will fit there without any modification?


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/10/2012 9:36 AM   
bem


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markhamregular
Do you guys think an OS75 will fit there without any modification?


Hi,
Do You mean OS 75AX?

At least it has same bolt pattern as OS61FX.
But OS 75AX is about 80 gram heavier (without silencer) then 65AX so you may get problems with nose heavy.

/Bo

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/11/2012 12:37 AM   
markhamregular



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Status: offline 		It's an OS75AX


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/11/2012 11:40 PM   
jnred123


 

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Status: offline 		Mine has a OS 95AX/MVVS pipe and Eflite retracts and only needed the battery mounted about 4-5 inches behind trailing edge of the wing to balance, just make a tray in lower fuse turtlledeck and slide it thru the opening.
Cheers
Greg


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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/24/2012 3:20 PM   
koenig427


 

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Status: offline 		Do you guys think a tower hobbies 75 would be way to big for this plane? I wasnt planning on using retracts either.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/24/2012 3:42 PM   
jnred123


 

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Status: offline 		The engine is fine but reconsider the the fixed gear thing please.
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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/24/2012 4:26 PM   
koenig427


 

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Status: offline 		I guess if im saving the money by using an engine I already have I could get these

http://www.amazon.com/E-Flite-60-Tricycle-Electric-Retracts/dp/B003G0RXYC/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348500326&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=60+-+120+Tricycle+Electric+Retracts+by+E-flite

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/24/2012 9:56 PM   
jnred123


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah I'm using those, seem alright so far but I have them mounted on rubber grommets like a servo, I believe they don't like vibration.
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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/25/2012 1:25 PM   
koenig427


 

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Status: offline 		Whats the best retracts for this plane? Ive been trying to find other ones.

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/25/2012 4:01 PM   
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Status: offline 		May I recommend Spring-Air? In over 18 hours of flight time I have not experienced any type of failure. Gear up is optional, gear down is mandatory.

Best regards,
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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/25/2012 7:12 PM   
Huang


 

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Status: offline 		koenig,

I've played with pretty much all of the electric gears available. There are too many failure reports of the e-flite 60-120 size retracts for glow applications although Horizon will replace them if they fail.

If money is no object you can check out the new Robart electric retracts. The one you want to look at is the 590 PRS series (click "mains" or "nose" first and then click "electric" ). They use the same retract mechanism as the Robart mechanical and pneumatic, the only difference is the actuator is electric. However the Robarts differ from the e-flights in that there are no PCBs in the retract units themselves to fail under vibration. There is a separate "control unit", which is a receiver sized box mounted inside the fuse so that it can be foam wrapped and mounted away from vibration and the elements. That controls the retracts and can be configured for delay and such. The control unit is actually produced by a electric retract company called "Down and Locked" and is included when you order the Robart mains. The nose unit is purchased separately but require the control unit to operate. You can order from Robart directly. They are however expensive and heavy.

The best cost effective option is what I call "Chinatracts" very popular with large EDFs and are much cheaper ($15~20 each). They are produced by a company called PZ in China and are rebranded everywhere. Hobby People sells them as Hobby People retracts. The one that you want is the large one - 10-12lb electric retracts with metal trunnion. It does not include gear wire and the trunnion is drilled for 5mm so harder to find gear wire. It also does not have a nose gear unit so you will have to fabricate the steering mechanism yourself - not hard to do. I've had excellent results with these on the H9 Phoenix and as a result our club members are buying up a lot of them. I mounted the units on rubber pads and far no vibration issues at all. More work but a lot cheaper, and the results look and work great.

There's plenty of options for pneumatics and all seem to work well. A final option would be mechanicals. I like the old EZ Supra mechanical retracts (the first generation green metal ones designed by Hanno) and always felt they are better designed than the MKs. They are expensive and hard to acquire, but Hobbico makes an exact copy of it. The tricycle unit only costs $19.99 from Tower. Although they do not have the quality fit and finish of the original EZs they perform exactly the same and are readily available. I would just go this route if you go mechanicals.

Hope that helps! You will enjoy the Phoenix on a fast low fly by, gear up!
Matt

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RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!! - 9/25/2012 7:28 PM   
MTK



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Status: online 		Southern Pro (now Dave Brown) were hard to beat for mechanicals. I think these are still sold. A little on the heavy side but compared to electrics they should be quite a bit lighter.


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