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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 8:33 PM   
oistein



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ORIGINAL: exsense-Italy

Hello to all!
i had away for a wile because of jobs... but i follow a bit the disussion about Wea. i need only a bit time to post some interesting tests and info i have done in this period, and not will sound good unlikely...
i will try wit few words but i hope to have time to expand well
- i have done a lot of tests with the new FASST adapter for Futaba and the response is BAD! seem that we have bounched back to the PCM modulation with a lot of STEPPING movements and if you move very fast the servos go OUT OF THE LIMITS... I have 2 interesting videos about with the old module and with the new FASSt and the old one is really better and fluid.
the new FASST have the center position now in the middle and is steady without any little movement but when user try to move the movements are worse a lot then the old one. in My Composite EFA i have taked video of the CANARD when the movement is very big and the effect is visible a lot!

-


Worked with wea all day to get confidence in the cable issue. We have now made something that we can beleive in an thrust. DId it with a buddy, he has this new adapter for his 14MZ and i have the old one. I cant just say that what Gianluca found is very visible on the new adapter. It is very poor servo movements. So sad Next i can also attest to the statement that with the new firmware you cannot turn of the speach telling u the position. Very annoying as it is a long message, and i have no need to hear it all he time. Just want the speed to get better consistency on approaches and also to easier find same speed when flying jet formations.

I was so sure i was able to swallow the very bad design of the cable since wea has said that they want do anything with by my own fix. It seems rock solid now. Then just to discover two more issues i dont like. The steeping movement only counts for 14MZ new adapter. The firmware speach is a bug i believe so that might be fixed soon, however i have less hopes on a quick fix for the more important stepping servo movements.

Tom, thank you very much for your interest in this thread and the translation of the wea documents.


Regards
Oistein


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 8:42 PM   
fireblade5437


 

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Status: online 		I tend to agree with you but I would like to have certain warnings such as Rx battery voltage etc...

Alan

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 9:01 PM   
tms-ger


 

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Status: offline 		...WEA  _MUST_ come up with massive speech out capabilities - and along with that, give the possibilty to configure how much of that you really want to hear. This will be very different from pilot to pilot. And english language has to be included of course ;-)


good night - sleep tight

Tom


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 9:17 PM   
oistein



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ORIGINAL: fireblade5437

I tend to agree with you but I would like to have certain warnings such as Rx battery voltage etc...

Alan



warning for battery, temp, range, speed, altitude is there already. it works perfectly.

I don't know what say after the disappointment of the stepping servos?

Anyone wanna buy my receivers?


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 10:45 PM   
sidgates



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Status: offline 		Thomas,
Do I understand you right? At present there is no output of the airspeed, not even a German voice file? Is the voice file the only output Weatronic intends to make? Is there any way to set an alarm?

Thanks again for your valuable help.
Sid

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/15/2012 10:52 PM   
oistein



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Status: offline 		there is voice output of airspeed at least with gps only. don't have the mux, so with that I do not know. however from last fw you can not switch off the announcement of the position. it is annoying as it is a very long message.


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/16/2012 12:07 AM   
luv2flyrc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: oistein


quote:

ORIGINAL: fireblade5437

I tend to agree with you but I would like to have certain warnings such as Rx battery voltage etc...

Alan



warning for battery, temp, range, speed, altitude is there already. it works perfectly.

I don't know what say after the disappointment of the stepping servos?

Anyone wanna buy my receivers?

Oistein, if you use PPM output instead of PCM, are the servo's still "notchy"?  I have this same issue with my JR 12x and Wea. If I try to use PCM you can clearly see the servo steps when they move. When using PPM , they are smooth as silk. The problem with this is that the JR 12x software only gives you 8 channels in PPM mode. I think the 14mz will give you all 12 channel though.

Mike



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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/16/2012 1:03 AM   
oistein



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ORIGINAL: luv2flyrc


quote:

ORIGINAL: oistein


quote:

ORIGINAL: fireblade5437

I tend to agree with you but I would like to have certain warnings such as Rx battery voltage etc...

Alan



warning for battery, temp, range, speed, altitude is there already. it works perfectly.

I don't know what say after the disappointment of the stepping servos?

Anyone wanna buy my receivers?

Oistein, if you use PPM output instead of PCM, are the servo's still ''notchy''?  I have this same issue with my JR 12x and Wea. If I try to use PCM you can clearly see the servo steps when they move. When using PPM , they are smooth as silk. The problem with this is that the JR 12x software only gives you 8 channels in PPM mode. I think the 14mz will give you all 12 channel though.

Mike





Hi Mike,

Thanks for the answer. Problem is that weatronic no longer has an adapter for 14MZ which allow us to use ppm. The old adapter allow us that. However the old adapter had problems at the center so they made this adapter which basically leaves the 14MZ in FASST mode in the software and you cant change it. This was done cause the old had the mentioned problems and also to give us full 14 channels. Now the old problem is solved, it is good in center and we have 14 channels, but the movement is crappy and looks like the old PCM or even worse. Crap !!!!!

Anyhow, wanna buy my receivers ? Wea with futaba 14MZ is now crap... So i think i am better off in FASST mode, so tired of these issues. I have had wea 2.4 since autumn 2009 and even 35 mhz before that.


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/16/2012 8:54 AM   
HarryC


 

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ORIGINAL: zl1wn

Hi all.
A very positive message.
I have just had a very very long phone call with Alwin.

The English voice should be available late April early may.

Just another broken promise, though who of us is surprised?


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/16/2012 11:06 AM   
tms-ger


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Sid,

just short: yes, there is no voice output for the MUX-Box as I am told at the ProWing (and there is nothing about that in the doc) ; so they are working on it right now as they know that this is really missing. They will redo the complete voice output as said. If you use the SM air speed sensor with the LinkVario, you will get german voice output and can set the condition, when you will get it said, like for GPS...  Max. / Min. Speed etc.


best wishes

Tom


PS: you can set / program conditions for ie flashing an LED, see translated doc...



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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/17/2012 10:53 AM   
macmuz


 

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Status: online 		Quick 12-22 question?
The screw fittings for the antennas are SMA fittings.
Is it possible to use off the shelf available SMA 90 degree adapters to bring the antennas out at right angles so as not to bend the wire(antenna) in tight installs?
Also will this have a direct impact on the receivers operation/signal strength?

Thanks Mario.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/17/2012 7:10 PM   
tms-ger


 

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Hi Mario,

if you use finest RF quality and gold plated parts with right impedance (for 2.4GHz) this should be no problem. But as always, perform a range check with those adapters installed. Maybe you can compare this in a test setup with and without adapter. Per definition, a passive adapter will not improve signal quality on a already right tuned system, but it maybe will not gegrade the quality that much. Please be also sure to secure the screws used with a little glue against disconnecting...

Please tell us about your experince here...


tom


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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/22/2012 3:12 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		Eagle tree now makes a G meter which is something I would really like to have in my jets. It can work in stand-alone mode but at end of flight only gives a single max G reading. I don't want all the cost and bother of using the eagle tree data logger to get the continuous recording. There is no indication of Weatronic or SM Modellbau making a G meter, Does anyone know if and how the eagle tree G meter might be connected to the Wea sensor port and the data be logged?
Harry

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Support/manuals/GForce%20Microsensor.pdf

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/23/2012 7:54 AM   
tms-ger


 

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Hi Harry,

the chance to get this thing connected to the WEA SCU port is nearly zero, cause E.T. has to know the protocol and in turn, in GC must be an option to configure this sensor. There might be a chance to connect it to the MUX-Box and measure/log the voltage output of the G-sensor if there is any. Then you can derive the G-Force from the logged voltage - not very comfortable, but maybe a way. Do not know about the costs, but you will have a value add since you can use the MUX-Box on other tasks too.

Regarding WEA plans I have indeed nothing heard about a G-Sensor, but this has not to mean very much. Since WEA is in competition with other vendors, they will not output any info on future plans if not necessary. As they mentioned to do a flow-meter, in the next advertisement of robbe they also anounced to bring a flowmeter... ;-)

Since WEA always wants to be a little bit special, I will not say say that they will not bring a G-Force sensor, but not in a short period of time I guess...


best wishes

Tom




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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/23/2012 9:37 AM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Tom.
H.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/30/2012 10:24 AM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		Hi fellow Weatronicers, can you help me to diagnose a problem? I am using a 12-22 gyro II and getting severe glitching.

On some, not all, flights the model suddenly rolls left very rapidly to about knife edge. It is always left roll, faster roll rate than the model has, and no other control seems to be affected. Sometimes it is just a wobble of 10 or 20 degrees, but sometimes it's the full violent glitch to knife edge. When that happens I come in to land immediately and cease flying for the day. Because I have the GPS and know where the model was in relation to landing when it glitched, I can find a bracket of a few seconds in the data when I know the glitch occurred. I am reading from the data card in the Rx so not relying on telemetry data received back at the Tx.

What it shows is that the radio was good, frames received and RSSI on both aerials is very good and no failsafe. But the X axis gyro, which is the one being used for the aileron gyro, is recording a single second of a rapid roll to the right, and the data sent to the servos is correspondingly for a rapid roll to the left, of travel values some 15% points greater than I get at full stick deflection! I have been able to pinpoint this on two separate flights, on two different days, that caused me to stop flying and come home to investigate. After the last one I left the system switched on after landing to watch for a glitch but after about 1/2hour there was nothing yet there had been two glitches in the air on that last flight.

So it looks like the X-axis gyro is intermittently seeing a violent roll to the right which does not exist and thus applying more left aileron than I can at full left stick, which explains the sudden and very rapid left roll. I am getting these glitches, minor and severe, at each flying session. I took the rx out of the model and put it on the bench and ran 4 sessions of 1/2 hour each, total 2 hours, to see it glitch. Well, it did not glitch, the gyro and aileron numbers are flat lines. Isn't that typical, it works perfectly in the model on the ground, or out of the model on the bench, but not in the air! I tried twisting and bending the rx in case of a hairline crack in some electrical pathway but that had no effect. The rx is firmly mounted in the model and has no freedom to move.

So I am at a loss to explain why the rx should see phantom rolls when flying but not on the ground.

Has anyone got any ideas I can test?

Harry

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/30/2012 11:06 AM   
Geoff White



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Status: offline 		Hi Harry,

You should talk to Andy Sylvester(aka Fortune7) as he was telling me that whilst flying his Eurosport at merryfield he had some 'funnies' with the gyro, which was also on roll, so as a precaution he turned it off. Note sure of the exact details but might be worth a chat to see if its an isolated case.

Geoff.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/30/2012 4:10 PM   
sidgates



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Status: offline 		Harry,
Your problem sounds a little bit like the problem I had. I was getting very short ail. commands once about every 2-4 minutes. When looking at the log file in Giga it recorded very short failsafes every 2-4 minutes. I switched my Fut 9C back to PPM from PM and no more failsafes.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/30/2012 4:29 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		It's not fail safes, the rf data is very clear about that, plus the failsafe setting is ailerons to neutral and gyro gain to zero. The X axis numbers clearly show a rapid roll to right when no roll existed.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/30/2012 11:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Harry,

That's really spooky; I had EXACTLY the same issue (as Geoff said) at Merryfield on my first flight of the day - after a couple of initial circuits, a sudden left roll (I thought I'd lost it instantly) followed by regain of control. Landed ASAP, looked at the data with David Gladwin's valuable help, and saw no issues with the radio link, RSSI, frames, etc. There was however a gyro spike (I use gyro on roll as you know) and the Gigacontrol nav-view 3d plot verified the exact position of the 'glitch'. After disabling the gyro function the further two flights were uneventful.

As you know, my receiver is a Micro 12/Gyro III and it concerns me that a possible embedded gyro problem exists. Do I ground the jet while sending the Rx back to WEA? (could be weeks without a conclusion!) Should I verify the problem by re-enabling the gyro and waiting for the glitch? Try as I might, I can't work-out how to use a switch on the JR 10X transmitter to enable/disable the gyro function. If I could do this, I'd be willing to re-try the gyro function and be ready to disable it if the problem re-occurs.

Frankly, I'm amazed you are reporting an identical issue! Perhaps I should send you my .nav file to compare?

Cheers, Andy

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/31/2012 7:49 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi,

I am short of time these days, but I can tell that we fly Micro 10 G III in Acro Prop-Planes (Elektric and Gas) and never had those effects up to now. We use a prop-lever to enable the Gyro(s) and also control the intensity with it (from 0 to "100%" adopted for the refering aircraft).

I cant imagine for us to set the gyro on the ground and not beeing able to control them during flight... Do you need info on how to do this ? To control an Gyro this way, you need at least one free TX-channel going to the plane.


best wishes

Tom






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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/31/2012 10:17 AM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		Harry (and Andy) I'm sorry I can't offer any constructive ideas except to check your modulation.

I have been using the gyro function for a couple of years now on two Bobcats and a Reaction using Micros, (that receiver is being swapped into my BVM F4 which will have gyro function assigned to ailerons, rudder and NS) two AW Hawks and a PST Revision using 12-22s (that receiver to go into my SkyGate Hawk, ( ailerons, rudder and NS) and a Smart 8 with a single gyro as a yaw damper, in a L39. I peruse the logs from each flight and absolutely no problems were observed on the data or in flight. Both BobCats flew 7 flights each at Merryfield, again flawlessly, with gyro function connected to both ailerons, both rudders and NW steering.

I am using JR 12X on S pcm, what are you using?

We can discuss further at CJ (or maybe at WTN this weekend) where I will have my laptop with GigaControl.

Regards,

David.

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/31/2012 10:29 AM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, I have more data.

Last night I left the system running for 5.5 hours and there is no glitch, the gyro graph is a flat line.

So whether the gyro is in the model or on the bench, as long as it is not flying it is perfect. The glitches only occur while flying.

I output the file of the last glitch flight to excel at 1/10 second sample rate.

At the point of the glitch, the gyro shows a roll to the right happening for 10/10 second, i.e. 1 second. The rate of roll is not big, it varies between 20 to 23.6 (don't know what that value is, it is not degrees per second) which compares to a value of 37 when I command a full rate roll to the right, so the gyro is sensing roughly 2/3 normal maximum roll rate to the right and lasting for 1 second.
In response it applies left aileron to both servos, the left and right servo values are respectively 68.3% and 67% whereas the travel values when I apply full left aileron are 56% and 48.8%. So it is applying more than the normal max aileron travel to the servos. At the time, gyro gain value being sent from the Tx was correct for the stick around centre so it was not being commanded to some ridiculous gain (I use channel 11 mixed from aileron stick to control gyro gain in order to give fade-out). Max gain set on the curve in giga control is not much and I get no wobbles at max speed due to too much gain.

So what might cause the gyro to sense a phantom right roll only when airborne, and apply a travel value to the ailerons far in excess of their normal max which implies a huge gain value?

Might the sensor be loose inside the Rx? Power supply to the sensor tripping and resetting or faulty connection causing it to go off and reset?

Harry

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/31/2012 10:50 AM   
David Gladwin



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Status: offline 		What power supplies, regulators are you using ? Have you expanded Rx voltage graph to maximum and checked the voltage, even a .1 sec fall below cutoff value may trigger a gyro glitch.

Regards, David.

< Message edited by David Gladwin -- 5/31/2012 2:02 PM >

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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 5/31/2012 12:28 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		David it's a 12-22 with all the power stuff built in and running from two lipos

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