Turbine Epic Victory Jet
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$3,600.00
| 5/24/2013
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Posts: 1091
Score: 102 Joined: 1/7/2002 Last Login: 5/25/2013 From: Mississauga,
ON, CANADA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: proline8000
Mike, I know I will not be able to use the FASST system after I change the regon code but I do not like the FASST system or the DSM2 system. That is why we are using the Weatronic system.
Posts: 226
Score: 105 Joined: 12/6/2004 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Newburyport,
MA, USA Status: offline
Mike, It is most likely that Weatronic will need to design a new adaptor for the US market. Because all radio manufacturers are going to integrated systems the market is too small to cover the development cost, I guess we are out of luck on this one. For 35.00 + shipping Futaba will change the region code. O curse I hope this works....
Posts: 258
Score: 100 Joined: 7/15/2007 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND Status: offline
Richard, My Pirotti Tuono flies perfectly with internal aerials on the 12-22R, and they look tremendous with the tailpipe leds operating , mine also has smoke.
By the way, it is not possible to fit a single drive to the rudder on the shark 304 as the bulkhead for the propellor unit blanks off the fuselage. I have found a high performance low profile servo that I can fit under the seat pan.
David, thanks for your comments, I have similar problem when I start fitting servos on a 6.52m DG303, which has 2 servos driving each aileron.
...... The only transmitters that I'm aware of offer 12 channel PPM are the Multiplex ones but, they are no longer available. Multiplex is all M-link now.
Mike
Graupner also offers 12ch PPM.. They have great tx's.
Posts: 472
Score: 104 Joined: 8/26/2008 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Sydney NSW , AUSTRALIA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
With the experience of several models, using various types of Weatronic 2.4 receivers I don't think you will have a problem at all, particularly if you locate the antennae in the non carbon area, which is exactly what I do.
Since starting to use the Wea 2.4 I have not logged a single failsafe frame and I scan the logs after every flying session. Of course one of the great strengths of this system is that you can examine your Rf signal strength and quality on Giga control using the data logged on the SD card. In addition you can set the value of your Rf alarm level at whatever you choose, I fly with a 50% setting and have yet to receive an alarm, even last week when flying my Hawk at fairly long range and doing Derry turns which completely rotated the antennae.The only alarm I ever receive is the occasional drop out of the downlink, usually on the ground, not a problem.
If you DO have any concerns or encounter any problem you could use the external antennae, just over an inch long, which solved the problems on a very large high carbon content SR71 at Dayton last Duly but the recorded data will allow you to make an objective assessment.
regards,
David.
HI David,,
I would just like to urge some caution here, and advise the limitations of the Wea failsafe data logging. You cannot rely on the SD card data to tell you if the model has gone into failsafe. You need to do exactly as you say and check the RF signal strenghts and quality (RSSI and Frame counts). The Fail safe logs are pretty much useless.
When using the Wea micro receivers, you are very unlikely to ever log a fail safe frame. The down link always fails before the up link, and when there is no down link the SD card is not recording what is happening at the receiver. If you go into failsafe at this time, it will not be recorded..
I will explain.
Imagine you have a model with a very bad micro receiver installation, the Rx antenna are partially blocked by something like a carbon plate. You might get a good enough signal to get the model airborne, and fly off quiet happily. However, once the model gets a good distance away, the signal will start to degrade until it fails. As the down link is weaker than the up link, it is ALWAYS lost first. (All Wea users will have experienced periods of lost down link during a flight which is a common occurrence and not usually a problem).
During periods of no down link, the current Wea software instructs the SD card logger at the Tx to keep filling in data, but it simply records the last known values. This continues for at least 5 seconds if the down link signal is not restored. (After five seconds the values recorded then reverts to zero. )
Now imagine that this model, with a poor Rx installation, flies a bit further away and the up link is also lost. The receiver will now go into failsafe, and the servos will do as instructed by the failsafe programming . However, it cannot communicate this fact to the Tx, as there is no down link. No failsafe event is recorded on the log file..
If we are lucky, and the model immediately comes back into range, the up link is restored first. We may not have even noticed a loss of control. As we fly back towards us, the down link is eventually restored. At this point the SD card simply logs the data coming back which is that the receiver is not in failsafe mode. (The Weatronics micro receivers do not remember failsafe events.) The Rx was in failsafe, but no failsafe event is recorded.
You can easily test this for yourself by forcing a failsafe event. What I did was set up a receiver on my work bench, turned it on, along with my Tx, with SD card in. Then I simply picked up the Tx and walked out of the house, and away up the road. Keep going until the down link is broken, (Indicated by the red LED on the Tx and a warning beep.) You wont usually have to go far, especially if you can put a few houses and other obstacles in the way. Then, continue walking away for some distance, the idea to get enough distance and obstacles between the Tx and Rx to break the up link as well.
When you go back and read this data, you will see that the Tx has lost contact with the Rx, but no failsafes are recorded..
The 12-XX series receivers work the same, but as they have an on board SD card, you can at least check this to see if there has been any failsafe events.
Attached is a file of a flight where at least one failsafe event should have been recorded (you will need to change the extension to .nav in order to open it in Giga). At 760 sec there is zero frames. No control.
Posts: 472
Score: 104 Joined: 8/26/2008 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Sydney NSW , AUSTRALIA Status: offline
I really need to bring to a conclusion the issues I have been having with my Weatronics systems, and the lock out and total loss of my classic Balsa Bandit. (I want to move on) The following is a bit long winded but I think should be relevant to every one using this system who knows how it operates .
To recap, in April this year I was flying my Balsa Bandit with a Micro 10, I gyro, and a GPS fitted. Tx was a JR PCM 10X with DV3. The site was Wangaratta airfield, main runway, a full size airport.I was one of 4 models flying at the time This was the first flight of this model after updating the RX from 2.30 to 2.56. (Pervious to the model had 20 successful flights, on Ver 2.30.) At approximately 90 secs into the flight I noticed a brief loss of control during a vertical roll manoeuvre. I regained control, but the engine had auto shut down, so I commenced a forced landing. I had the model lined up on finals when I experienced another loss of control, this time there was no recovery and it simply flew into the runway, total loss except the turbine.
On reviewing the log file it was apparent that the cause was a loss of up link to the Rx. For some reason the signal strength (RSSI) and frame counts on both Rxs started to degrade as soon and the model took off. (Co-related via the GPS) Prior to the take off roll the numbers were good. After take- off the frame counts started to degrade and actually seemed to oscillate between 40 and 100, over a regular 5 second cycle. Similar story with the RSSI. Eventually the link was broken and I lost my model.
As you may know it took me a long time to get Weatronics involved with this problem. However Jens Ackerman finally reviewed my data and responded as follows.
Hello Mr. Perrett,
I've seen your log file. It looks as if something disturbed some. For example, a mesh or a metal fence. Whenever they have flown a little higher, the signal was ok, but with waves of signal malfunctions.
When flies and deeper in the close range wounds more disorders.
See the two pictures. There is a star-shaped pattern sturgeon. I conclude that it be a source of interference from nearby needs such as a shut-off low, grid box or the like.
He included the screen shots below. To me, this seems to indicate Wea believes the problem to be a very specific form of interference on the 2.4 GHz band.
I responded stating that I thought interference to be very unlikely given the location, the fact that many hundreds of other 2.4 GHz flights took place that weekend, and that the Wea system is supposed to be very robust in dealing with interference. Data hopping over 81 channels, dual recievers etc,
Jens responded as follows
Hello Mr. Perrett,
As it is right to recognize a source of interference in your neighborhood, it can be shut-off (metal mesh), it can also be another source such as a laptop with a very strong Bluetooth or the like. I can only say from here, unfortunately, this has been receiving detrimental, so I can not see what.
The RSSI values and related to the frame to be worse, depending on location and distance of the model. If an antenna is not optimally aligned, or a source of interference in between (carbon, trees, etc.) are worth the poor. If the stations are a source of interference, as expected, a low metal fence or other 2.4 channel with a higher power (Bluetooth, Wi-Fi is 2.4 Ghz) it dips to the transmission power can come or come to such a very short dips.
As an example, if 2 2.4 GHz radio can be operated closer than 20 cm it be massive disruptions. The higher the transmission power must be the greater distance. Normally, the pilots are about 1 meter apart. So you can theoretically run simultaneously up to 120 Sytems.
It can was a bit theoretical, but I hope you find something that could be a source of interference and can be trusted to fly again.
At this stage I concluded that that Wea probably had no better idea than me as to why this crash happened. I certainly hope that a lap top computer was not the cause, otherwise we are all in trouble. Laptops abound at the field nowadays.
I seriously doubt that interference is the cause. I also do not think that antenna placement is the cause. This model had more than 20 flights on it in the same configuration, with no issues.
So, even with state of the art dual receivers, frequency hopping over 81 channels, Data logging, redundant everything,,,, $hit still happens that can’t be explained.
I still actually believe in the Weatronics system and will be persevering with it, albeit with new hardware. In trying to pin point my problem I have been doing a lot of test running with the system and found a few faults and glitches which are not well known. (such as the post above). I will post some of my results here soon .
For those that are interested, below are the screen shot of my crash flight, and the actual .nav file, converted to PDF. If anyone can shed further light on this, I am all ears.
Posts: 2849
Score: 110 Joined: 2/5/2002 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Thanks for taking the time and trouble for your description of your proble, I feel for the loss of that beautiful Bandit.
I just have no idea about what could be the cause of the problem so won't speculate, I do know though, that things go wrong in the very best systems, some of which are just unexplainable, without precedent and never recurr, the near total loss of electrical power on a B767 over the Atlantic is an example, something Boeing thought impossible and for which they could not find the cause. It never recurred but there was also an unexplained near total loss of power on a BA Airbus which Airbus also thought impossible !
As well as several micros I am currently flying 3 12-20s which record data IN the receiver and so far no fail safe frames recorded in those, which I assume would be recorded if there was a transmitter problem.
Perhaps it just coincidence that the software had been changed to 2-56 all my systems are on 2-33 and working perfectly except that I am having start /shutdown problems with some new sd cards installed but NOT with cards which have been in use and already have data on them !
Let's hope there is no recurrence if you do stay with Wea which I still feel is the most competent system available.
Posts: 2946
Score: 100 Joined: 2/10/2002 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: private, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
The data is shouting out a big clue, though I don't have the technical knowledge to know what it is! The graphs are very rhythmic, like a clock ticking, and it can be seen as well in the very regular red and green pattern in the flight ribbon. Something was behaving very rhythmically. Low frequencies like that make me think of beat frequencies generated by having two frequencies very close to one another, but that could be a complete red herring!
If You refer to the 767 Martinair incident a few years ago, I know all about it. A good friend of mine was captaining it, lives almost around the corner and happens to be an avid modelpilot! He was also instrumental in finding the cause as he happens to be a licensed electro technical engineer (studied before he took up flying). But it was scary sh%# and good weather played an important part in the outcome, like it has been the deciding factor in the Hudson waterlanding.
Posts: 787
Score: 100 Joined: 5/14/2002 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Denver,
CO, USA Status: online
I know you are correct about not recording failsafes if the downlink is missing but there are other conditions that occurr where a failsafe is recorded. It happened to me.
Posts: 2849
Score: 110 Joined: 2/5/2002 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Richard, small world, yes it was the Martinair incident I had in mind. Though long retired from flying the 767 I would love to discuss this problem with your friend so if he is coming to JetPower I will be there and contactable through the Traplet stand.
Would very much like to meet up with other Weatronic users there, too. I will be at the Steinberger fom Thursday evening.
David , did you get an answer about your problem ? I never had such a trouble.
GENERAL QUESTION : Who is using a FUTABA T12FG with a WEATRONIC 2.4 Tx Modul ?
Stan
Stan, your A-10 won "Best military aircraft" at the "Jets over Pampa" meeting in Belgium. But we are starting to have serious problems with your model. Don't get me wrong, your build and finish is just spectacular, and I am 100% sure my friend Wim has bought your airplane without any defects, but after 7 flights he has 3 burnt out servo's.
I have set up the plane for Wim, because he was not familiar with the Weatronic system. He bought a brand new Futaba 12FG, I installed a new Wea DV4 module on it, installed V2.59 firmware because we were having glitches and bad servo resolution on V2.56. While setting up the model with the new transmitter the servo wich actuates the canopy burnt out (Hitec HS5995TH I believe). I replaced the servo and completed the programming, tested everything, performed a range check, all OK. Now in the 7th flight the nose steering servo burnt out, and the left elevator servo! No need saying the model is grounded untill we find what is causing this. There were no modifications made to the model, just another transmitter (Futaba T12FG instead of Graupner MC-24) and firmware upgrade. I have tested Wim's TX with one of my planes before he went out to fly the A-10, and I noticed straight away that the servo's are not running as smooth as with my TX (also MC-24). So I am pretty sure the problem lies with the TX, or the combo TX-Wea.
Does anyone have an idea why? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Bart, Sorry we did not talk to each other at Diest with the maiden flights (I was the one who went looking for the WEA manual and could not find it). I think this problem You'd better go direct to Jens or Alwin. Congrats with winning the Trophy! It is a very impressive model indeed. Btw I found a (small) cover plate on the field which I think belongs to the A-10, I gave it to Damien.
Posts: 2246
Score: 100 Joined: 12/8/2001 Last Login: 5/23/2013 From: Va Beach,
VA, USA Status: online
Check your end points and neutrals! I burnt up two flap servos on a Mibo partly because the hinge line and flap were not correct (bought used) and end points.
I would think going from one Tx brand to another would cause some issues. Also, check the modulation selected, this can cause problems as well (documented earlier in this thread). It sounds like you maybe very close on a few of the servos and it is manifesting itself as you put flights on it exercising the servos and maybe binding on a few occasions?
Check your end points and neutrals! I burnt up two flap servos on a Mibo partly because the hinge line and flap were not correct (bought used) and end points.
I would think going from one Tx brand to another would cause some issues. Also, check the modulation selected, this can cause problems as well (documented earlier in this thread). It sounds like you maybe very close on a few of the servos and it is manifesting itself as you put flights on it exercising the servos and maybe binding on a few occasions?
I maybe way off, but just a thought!
Regards, George
End points and neutrals are not an issue, none of the servos are binding whatsoever. All servo travels are programmed in the 12R rx, the only servo setup we adjusted was the one from the canopy after replacing it. We have setup the end points from the TX using Gigacontrol so we could see the full travel of how it was originally programmed. So we are sure we are not outside the original max. travel.
About the modulation, if I select auto in GC, we get massive glitches, if I select Weatronic modulation manually then everything works fine. I have tried all others in the list but Weatronic modulation is the only one that works.
Posts: 258
Score: 100 Joined: 7/15/2007 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND Status: offline
Some advice please. I am trying to download data from an sd card so I can easily check the current draw of a servo using giga control. The card was formatted perfectly as I have just used it to put V2.61 on the TX. However whenever I try to load a logfile into Gigacontrol it comes up with an error saying "Error in file.Configuration was probably only partially loaded" I get the same error if the SD card is in the TX or the RX. Gigacontrol is version 2.59. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so how did you overcome it.
Posts: 226
Score: 105 Joined: 12/6/2004 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Newburyport,
MA, USA Status: offline
I have some good news and some bad. I just received my 14MZ from Futaba service this morning with the region code changed from USA to Europe, It works perfect with the Weatronic FASST adaptor. The system comes up in 2.4ghz mode and there is no servo chatter and there is no offset in the pulse . Now for the bad…… You are going to have a hard time getting Futaba to change the region code. There policy is not to change it at all. You will need to call Futaba service and talk to a manager and explain why you want to change the region code. I told them I will be using the Weatronic system and it only will work with the Europe region code. The settings for the Weatronic TX module is 12ppm(1.5) or auto.
I flew my plane 6 times today and it was rock solid. Only complant was I could only get 2 flights per battery
Posts: 258
Score: 100 Joined: 7/15/2007 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND Status: offline
Hi all, Is anyone getting any replies to emails sent to Weatronic. I am again having problems with the shop, and emails to ask that it be sorted and a phone call do not appear to be getting any action.
Ross, Many companies in Germany are having summer holidays around this time and are either closing down fully of operate at reduced strength. Normally they indicate that on their website, or send all customers (like JetCat does) an email. But alas Weatronic's information to customers has not been their best part of the total service, to say the least. Try again in one or two weeks I'd recommend.
Posts: 255
Score: 100 Joined: 6/16/2006 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: ShulinCity, Taipei County, TAIWAN Status: offline
Hi all:
My DV4 Tx/module adapter for Futaba 14mz was bought on 2011 JetPower. Today, I went to flight site to maiden my Mig-29. It was a sunny day and temperature was about 34 degree. I used one tank of fuel to complete taxing run test and everything was fine. But 30 minutes later after I refueled tank and switched the transmitter on, the control surfaces were respond in first 10 seconds then went into failsafe mode and no response any more. Then I connected the Tx to GigaControl and "no signal" was shown on "modulation" area of "transmitter configuration". I tried to figure out what wrong with my Tx on the field all day long but could not success. But when I was back home and turned the air condition on, the Tx was working normal again. Now, I can figure out it seems be a temperature relative issue. So I put the Tx antenna only into dish-dryer first and warm it up to 50degree then connect it to transmitter and it transmits signal solid. Next step, I warm the Tx module adapter to the same temperature and plug it back to transmitter, the problem comes back again. I do this test on another two sets of my spare Tx modules adapter and get the same result. Further more, I reduce the test temperature and find this problem can be happened on any temperature just above 40 degree. I'm glade this problem was happened on the ground and can not believe the Tx module adapter can be failed possibly just because I place my transmitter under sunshine( it is very easy to excess 40degree under sunshine on a normal summer day in Taiwan). How can I do now? Or I just can run this Tx set on winter or cloudy day?
Posts: 787
Score: 100 Joined: 5/14/2002 Last Login: 5/24/2013 From: Denver,
CO, USA Status: online
My instruction book says temperature range is -10 degrees to +60 degrees C. I would contact Weatronic immediately. I will check my set as soon as possible for similar problem.
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RE: Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool - 
