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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/5/2013 2:05 AM   
microdon2


 

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/5/2013 8:47 PM   
Granpooba


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun

Gran:
The OS is a strong engine; have not really seen comparative data with the DLE20.
I had thought of a Mintor22 as well, but i'm concerned about the static on the forums about lack of compression, ring problems, etc.

What about an MVVS 26?




Have also looked into the MVVS. Also have considered a couple of other engines, but keep coming back to that darn OS 22. Trouble is, can hardly find any real info on the engine. Seems like not to many folks are running them and I think that it is due to the price. Can purchase other engines in the $250.00 range, thus a lot of folks do not want to spend the $409.00 for the OS. But when you add a Pitts style muffler to the DLE for about an extra $70.00, then you are getting a little closer to the OS price range.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/6/2013 6:09 AM   
microdon2


 

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/10/2013 3:29 PM   
RoyR


 

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ORIGINAL: RoyR

One more problem to report with my Revolver. THe one with the bad covering job, the misaligned aileron servo cutout, the tight fitting wing tube, the missing alignment pins on one wing and the alignment pins that would not go in the hole on the other wing.

I had kept the cowl in the plastic bag to prevent scratching. I took it out to trial fit on the fuselage. First it would not go around the fuse as the top was flat. When I forced it to go on there is a large dent on the top plus I noticed a small crack on the side.

I just added this problem to my mounting list and sent it to Great Planes. Will see what they say tomorrow.





I had one more setback with getting my Revolver replaced. I have been corresponding with Great Planes Support. They said to send in the wings and cowl for replacement, (as I have already glued the stabilizer and rudder on the fuselage. Otherwise I would have sent the whole airplane.
The address was to "Hobby Services" So I asked Support if I needed a case number or to send any information with the wings. They said I didn't need to send anything with them. Today I got a letter from Hobby Services asking why I sent them the wings and cowl, also some sort of invoice saying I owed postage. (I paid the postage myself when I sent it)
So I have sent them the entire email correspondence I had with Support and told them I needed replacements. We will see what happens now. It seems their customer support and the place that does the warranty are two different things.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/10/2013 5:33 PM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RoyR
I had one more setback with getting my Revolver replaced. I have been corresponding with Great Planes Support. They said to send in the wings and cowl for replacement, (as I have already glued the stabilizer and rudder on the fuselage. Otherwise I would have sent the whole airplane.
The address was to ''Hobby Services'' So I asked Support if I needed a case number or to send any information with the wings. They said I didn't need to send anything with them. Today I got a letter from Hobby Services asking why I sent them the wings and cowl, also some sort of invoice saying I owed postage. (I paid the postage myself when I sent it)
So I have sent them the entire email correspondence I had with Support and told them I needed replacements. We will see what happens now. It seems their customer support and the place that does the warranty are two different things.


I had a Revolver 70 in a box that picked up from a guy that just bought it from TH. After reading some of the post about wrinkles and so forth, I thought I better pull it out of the box and go over it with a fine tooth comb.

For the most part, it is decent except I was surprised at the wrinkles in the wings, rudder, and elevator. I took the heat gun and can fix most of them without too much problem, yet I am surprised at the number of wrinkles. A few of them will need more work to get taken care of and some will not completely come out. The good thing is they are in areas that won't affect the looks of the plane.

Also the wing alignment pins are not the best at all, but will work with some adjusting all except one of them is pretty bad and may need to be removed and re-aligned. One of the ailerons is rubbing and will have to be fixed. Nothing I cannot fix, but the quality control must have fell through the bottom with GP lately because this ARF just arrived a couple weeks ago. The wing tube was really tight and took some work, but I don't mind that. I would rather have tight than a bad loose tube.

At least the canopy on this one fits good and does not have that huge gap at the back of it. The fuselage looks very nice, cowl is good, wheel pants look good too. If GP is going to send these planes out with shoddy workmanship, they need to consider discounting the price to cover our additional labor

If you have these in a box, I would strongly advise looking them over to make sure they are ok in case you need to send something back.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 12:43 AM   
RoyR


 

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Status: offline 		I am the one that had the problem with the wings and cowl on my Revolver. I sent the wings and cowl back, having to pay the postage myself.
Today I got the replacement wings and cowl. The cowl seems fine, although I haven't tried to fit it on the fuselage yet.
The wings were wrinkled, but not as bad as the first ones. I was able to iron it fairly well. I went to put the servos in the wing and found I had the same problem. The cutout for the servo on the left wing is over 1/2 inch farther inboard than the right. Therefore the aileron control horn will not line up on the plywood reinforcement on the left aileron. I went ahead and tried to put the wings on the fuselage. The wing tube is too tight on both and I will have to sand them some to get the wing tube to slide completely in the wings. The alignment pins on both wings will not fit in the holes in the fuselage. At least both wings had alignment pins plus they sent 4 extra pins. lol

However, I am not going to send these back. I will just have to do some modifications to make them work. I reported this to Great Planes to let them know I was disappointed. This is going to make me think before ordering another Great Planes. If I do ever get another I am going over it with a fine tooth comb and if there is any problem I will send it back for a refund. There is no reason to have to put up with this in a plane that expensive.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 2:33 AM   
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Status: offline 		Roy R - I know you're probably getting sick of dealing with TH on this, but it might be worth a shot to tell them that you want another set - a GOOD set - of wings - and that they should actually CHECK them before sending them to you! I do like TH, but sending defective material to correct defective material is really shoddy - they should be ashamed of that. And I think you deserve a good set of wings. Besides - not only will it make you feel better, you'll have an extra set of wings (your current ones) that are easily fixable. And - if you fly anything like me - you'll need them eventually....



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 5:10 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Hopefully these issues will be long forgotten soon. What engine Roy?

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 6:04 AM   
lopflyers


 

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 6:25 PM   
VictoryRoll



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Status: offline 		Hi RoyR,

  I am the one the had the misaligned wing pins, wrinkled plane, very, very, very tight fit on wing tube, and a vareity of other problems; see my posts in the 240 - 260 page area (I think).   I was formerly known as "fishingships"
  I too sent back my plane, only I had not done any work on, just did "dry-fit" and found the wing alignment pins mis-aligned!  I was not going to mess with them for two reasons;  1st & foremost, you will have to really make sure you keep your incidence = to mfr.'s, not the easiest task but doable,  2ndly, I just did not believe I should be making repairs/adjustments, etc., to plane that has mfg. defects.  After all, they warranty their planes (and any of their items, free from mfrs. defects.

 Now, onto my recent receipt of a whole new plane.   It too has problems.   I had the canopy fit issue.  That is something that I can live with, as they just did not properly align the dowels in the front of the canopy, to the elongated hole in the firewall.   I already fixed that by just making the hole a bit longer (vertically) with a round "hole" file.    
 More upsetting is that I have the same problem as you with the wing-set servo bays.   The distance from the root to the servo opening is "almost" 3/4" longer on one side than the other.   I called GP, as I was done dealing with any intermediary company, and the fellow there was very nice, very helpful and completely understood my issue(s).    I expect to get a new wing-set in the next week or so.   We'll see what this one looks like !     I did speak with him about ensuring that the wing-set had the proper (equal) distance on both wing-halves, but they are not necessarily in the habit of checking every piece of stock that they release.  I can somewhat sympathize with that, BUT, if I get this new wing-set and it has same issue or alignment issues, I will ask for them to do just that, or I want a full refund, as I am not going to mess with this any longer... I just don't have the time to go around in circles.

I do not think you, or I, should need to correct mfrs. defects and I would caution you greatly, not to file anything, incl wings, fuse and wing tube.  Just note the issues and call them again.

I too am both surprised and disappointed in GP.  I have bought many of their ARF's and supplies, etc. and have not seen such shoddy workmanship in my life.    They should suspend the delivery of this plane until they get their mfg. facilty on track.   I told the fellow I spoke with that they are getting bashed in this forum and they may want to review the issues.  Who knows whether they will or not.... I expect they will as it is bad press.

 As I said, there are other issues, but those are small enough that it isn't worth mentioning, and they are fixable.

 If you wish to see photos of my latest Revolver, as I unpacked and measured it, I can post for your viewing pleasure.  Just let me know.

My last question to other "Larger Revolver" readers/subscribers is this:   Are all of you modifying the fuse to landing gear to better support the LG from being ripped out, as I have read in previous posts here?

Thanks all,

Don

< Message edited by VictoryRoll -- 1/19/2013 5:10 PM >


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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/18/2013 9:34 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		Don - I don't think everyone is modifying the main LG area, but many are. And I'd guess the rest (who read this thread, anyway) are at least reinforcing.

And if they aren't yet they'll start right after that first painful "gear-ripping-out-and-wheelpants-punching-through-the-wings" episode.

Oh, to be young again.....

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/19/2013 12:32 AM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

Don - I don't think everyone is modifying the main LG area, but many are. And I'd guess the rest (who read this thread, anyway) are at least reinforcing.

And if they aren't yet they'll start right after that first painful ''gear-ripping-out-and-wheelpants-punching-through-the-wings'' episode.

Oh, to be young again.....


I am one of the guys that run the stock gear, except I did beef up the LG area, yet not all that much - mostly epoxy for strength. The only other thing on the LG I do is run a flat aluminum plate accross the bottom of the gear just under the bolt heads. I have not had any major issues with the landing gear at all. I think the plane looks so nice with the factory gear.

I don't know how the gear will do on this new one I plan to build. I have taken it out of the box and looked it over. Had many, many wrinkles, but nothing that will get me too much of an issue. I was thinking about putting a custom design on this one anyway just to be different.

It did have misaligned wing pins. Workable but one is off too much and won't fit. What is up with these bad wing pin alignments? One wing will go in and the other will need one pin worked on. The only thing I have not done is measure the servo hole and I plan to do that tomorrow since everyone is having issues and now I am concerned.

If the servo hole is off then that is one more set of wings that is messed up from GP. I will know tomorrow once I check it out. I agree with the other poster that said GP needs to stop and get this corrected. This has been one of their best planes ever made and this will quickly send Rev 70 sales down the tubes.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/19/2013 12:35 AM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Don:
I think if you land on a paved surface, and have your setup tuned for a slow idle, and flare well each time, that you will likely be ok WITHOUT reinforcement.

If however, you land on grass, particularly southern, tough field grass, or you land fast, or you occasionally have a 'firm' landing, you will likely experience what microdon says - fractured main LG plate with the consequences thereof. My landings are MUCH less exciting than they used to be, but even so, i tore out the main LG when my R70 ran over a torn up section of the (southern) grass runway caused by feral pigs.

Your choice I think. Fly with a few more ounces as prevention, or repair as needed.



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/19/2013 3:51 PM   
Luchnia


 

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Status: offline 		Well I measured the servo boxes on the wings and added to the pin alignment problems, sure enough they are off. I will get some pics to send out to TH or GP.

TH will be receiving a call first (since the plane was purchased from them) for replacement wings and hopefully they will make sure they are right before sending them out.

GP must have sent a reasonably large shipment out with all these issues. Starting to look more like 100 dollar planes from CMP or Nitromodels

Update: I was able to get the wings to work after some manipulation. One pin was worse than the others so really working with aligning the hole on the fuselage was the deal to get it to work. After aligning the wings and then mounting them they were not off much at all as far as overall alignment.

The servo boxes are off about 3/4 of an inch and one is a tad crooked. I don't think it is nearly as bad as the other poster had. I do think this is fixable when installing the wooden blocks for the servo to mount on. You just have to change the block alignment to compensate.

I have to think about whether or not I will call TH. One thing on this particular plane is that the fuse is nicely done and extra epoxy on the motor mount area and covering on the fuse is good too. Wings is another story. I was able to get most of the wrinkles out, but wow...that was a lot more than normal!

< Message edited by Luchnia -- 1/19/2013 7:24 PM >

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/20/2013 1:01 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		It's the gopher holes or dead stick landings that worry me with most stock gear mounts.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/20/2013 3:52 AM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Well guys
I had the R70 out today in perfect conditions. DLE20, 14x12 APC prop.
I ran opposing courses with the Eagle Tree GPS instruments on board. Straight and level.

I had a max of 118.5 mph down wind, and 100.5 upwind, averaging 109.5 mph independent of wind.

I'll have to retune the needles for my next prop - a 14x13.5 APC.

Max g was 5.6 in the Z (vertical) axis.

This bird can move.



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/20/2013 4:25 AM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		Agree with WJC - if you're on a paved runway and never have a rough landing the stock gear will probably be fine. But I land on grass - tough, stubborn, un-even Yankee grass - and I don't always land perfectly (though I'm usually pretty good). Or, as Ernie mentioned, with a dead stick you can't always afford perfect. Especially in slightly windy conditions. Last year my friend and I were flying our Revolvers in a paved lot. Was slightly windy, and his Rev 59 came down a tad hard, then bounced up about 4 feet, then down semi-hard. Stock gear and wheelpants - right through the wings. He reinforces now.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/21/2013 11:17 PM   
u2fletch


 

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Status: offline 		Just got my first Revolver 70 for Christmas. Quite excited about the plane especially when I saw the number of folks running DLE 20's in them. I have a couple of XYZ 20 clones waiting for testing, so the Revolver 70 will be the platform of choice. BTW, Got the XYZ motors from Valley View and they look great. Walbro carbs, and Valley View included some trick extension arms for the choke and throttle plate. These arms perfectly line up with the holes in the Revolver firewall with an inverted engine install.

Anyway, did the elevator servos in the tail mod with a little twist. Measured the opening then used my home built CNC router to make custom fill plates for the servos. Turned out great.

Jeff



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/21/2013 11:22 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Jeff:
A CNC router - that is a cool man toy. Home built yet!
Are you an engineer or computer science guy?

That is a very nice solution for the aft servo mounting problem.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/21/2013 11:36 PM   
u2fletch


 

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Status: offline 		Installing the beam mounts for the XYZ 20 and determined that the upper bolt holes are going to line right up with the upper portion of the engine box. So I decided to make a firewall extension and a couple of supports to help strengthen the whole area. Should tie together the loads between the engine mount and large forward bulkhead. May add a couple side support ribs out of lite-ply as well.

The new support bracket was machined out of 1/4" ply. Fit was perfect, gotta love CNC. Was interesting to note the right thrust built into the engine box when I was modeling the area in my CAD program. Got a little concerned the spinner might be off, but the centerline markings on the firewall account for the cant of the engine mount. Whew!



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 1:02 AM   
VictoryRoll



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Status: offline 		Well guys.... not good news...again!    Received my new set of wings for the Revolver 70", and THIS pair is the exact same as the LAST pair.  The distance from wing root to servo bay is different on both sides, and the exact same measurements as the original pair !

I would dive into moving the bay, but kind of hate to play with a foam core wing... looks like I'll be calling GP tomorrow with news.

....very, very disappointing.....

Don



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 1:30 AM  1 votes
ahicks


 

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Status: online 		Well Don, the only thing I can say is if you can get through this, the plane is a blast to fly, and worth it? I've been flying since God invented shirt pockets, so I've experienced my fair share of planes, and this plane has to rank right up near the top of anything I've flown when it comes to pure fun factor. The speed envelope the plane flies well in likely the widest?

Best of luck! -Al

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 1:33 AM   
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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 3:10 AM   
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Status: offline 		Don
Agree with Al - ahicks - on the speed envelope comment; i had not thought of it in those terms, but he is exactly right. This plane is well behaved at 18-20mph on slow approach, and it fun and predictable at >100mph.

Aileron rolls at 100mph on low rates will make your head spin.



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 8:13 AM   
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Status: offline 		And with a little headwind you can do a low-and-slow inverted pass that looks like it's barely hanging there. Very stable plane.

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