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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 12:13 PM

Luchnia

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ORIGINAL: wjcalhoun

Don
Agree with Al - ahicks - on the speed envelope comment; i had not thought of it in those terms, but he is exactly right. This plane is well behaved at 18-20mph on slow approach, and it fun and predictable at >100mph.

Aileron rolls at 100mph on low rates will make your head spin.

I agree. The Rev 70 is a smooth flyer from slow to fast and one of the things I really liked about mine was the plane lands so silky smooth it is unreal. I have one in the box, but I was thinking about popping another 30cc plane together before messing with the Rev 70 and maybe letting it sit for a while. The thing is I have everything I need to build the 70 except the DLE 20 which is no big deal to get it on the way.

So many choices in the RC world - what a shame!

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 1:02 PM

VictoryRoll

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I agree guys, whole-heartily. It is why I decided to go with the Revolver 70... great plane to fly, and why I want it so bad. As mentioned, I am contacting GP later today and hope that I can get them to measure the wingroot-to-servobay distance before shipping the next set out.

As @wjc mentioned before, I suspect that the factory has setup the wrong tooling to cut the bays at the correct distances. Until they fix that, and who knows how many of these GP has at their USA warehouse, I expect to have about 10-20 wing sets with incorrect servo bays!!!

Oh, I almost forgot.... Could someone (who is flying their Revolver 70) do me a favor and take the correct measurement from the wing root to the servo bay, on both sides, just to make sure and to see which of the two (2) different measurements on my "incorrect" wing set is right. I just do a perpendicular measurement off the root, to the closest side of the servo bay, for top corner of bay, middle, and bottom of bay. Thanks so much.

Everyone here has been great, informative and most of all supportive. I appreciate it greatly.

P.S. UPDATE: I contacted GP and they are so great to deal with. They are sending me out a new pair of wings and going to check the dims before shipping, which I sure do appreciate. I am sending them the photos, as well as the second set of mis-aligned servo-bay wings, and hopefully I will get building this baby! Really psyched about it.

Kudos to Mike & Mark @ GP for all the help.

Don

< Message edited by VictoryRoll -- 1/22/2013 9:34 PM >

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/22/2013 9:30 PM

VictoryRoll

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Hiya U2fetch,

I was wondering if you could give me (us) the dims of those cutouts, as I plan on doing the same with rear-mounted servos. It is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Don

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/24/2013 12:24 AM

u2fletch

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VictoryRoll, here is the DXF file of the servo mounts. You should be able to get any dimensions you need from there.

Revolver Servo Mount

wjcalhoun, yes, my background is Computer Engineering although my real job is commercial pilot.

Here is a link to a website that has pics and info on the router I built:

Home Built Router

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/25/2013 5:44 PM

VictoryRoll

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Thanks so much @u2fletch ! Greatly appreciate you sharing them with me.

Woah! That is a beautifully built router, man, Congrats and big-time kudos !

@wjc, could you possibly measure the distance from the wing root to closest edge of the servo bay for me on both sides, just to make sure that when I do get the next set of wing halves, I will have a reference point. Thanks Bill, I appreciate all of your help.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/25/2013 5:48 PM

RoyR

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Well, I have an update on my Lemon Revolver.

I had written Support telling them the wings they sent me had the same defect as the ones I sent in. They answered and again offered to replace them. They said they had taken a set of wings out of a kit and examined them and saw no problem and would exchange them. By then I had already installed the aileron servos and was ready to fly. I use ball links on the aileron and had to adjust (reverse the left one) to make it fit on the plywood reinforcement on the aileron. If I look I can see that the wings don’t match, but after first flight It didn’t seem to make a difference in the flying.
So I am happy with their support. It’s just the quality control that upsets me. I wrote them back to thank them and tell them that. I also explained again the problem and how they can check for it. Just looking at the wings you can’t tell anything is wrong. But measuring the servo cutout, the left wing on both sets was ½” farther inboard which would put the control horn just inside the plywood reinforcement on the aileron if it was mounted correctly.

For Ernie: I’m slowly breaking into electrics. This is the largest electric I have as of now. I have an EMP 5065 and running 6 cells. That is plenty of power as it has speed and can climb vertically until I pull back the throttle.

This morning I went out and put my 4th flight on the Revolver. I’m getting the feel of it pretty quickly. There was no wind and when I landed I had to keep my speed up. It landed beautifully, but I didn’t want it to run off the end of the runway, so I turned it. It wasn’t going that fast, but when I began the turn on the runway the gear came off.
There is no real damage, but that is pretty upsetting to have to do repairs this soon.

Yes, I know some of you have warned about the weak landing gear, but I suppose I have to learn the hard way. Yes, we have a paved runway, I landed smooth, the gear just isn’t stressed for lateral force. (it will be the next time it is in the air)

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/25/2013 6:25 PM

RoyR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VictoryRoll

.... Could someone (who is flying their Revolver 70) do me a favor and take the correct measurement from the wing root to the servo bay, on both sides, just to make sure and to see which of the two (2) different measurements on my ''incorrect'' wing set is right. I just do a perpendicular measurement off the root, to the closest side of the servo bay, for top corner of bay, middle, and bottom of bay. Thanks so much.

I will say on both sets of wings I had, it was the left one that was wrong. Once I had the servos installed the right one alligned up correctly on the aileron and the left was just off the reinforcement. check my pictures.
But you can tell the correct distance is around 12 1/4" for the good one. (that's from wing root to the inside of the cutout.)

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/25/2013 10:37 PM

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Hey RoyR, I'm also switching to electrics. I just bought a 71" AJ Slick to be powered by a big Scorpio on 6S.

My Revolver 70 is powered by a TT120 & my LG came off the same way as yours. After fixing it, now I rather go out the runway

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/26/2013 2:05 AM

orthobird

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hi, flew my revolver last week again. i am the only using the saito 125.

she flew best ever. perfect landing til plane came off runway during taxi, and just like that, yep, you guessed it, the landing gear popped off, for 4th time.

so i have re-glued it, but this time, i got two l brackets and bolted them to firewall.

lets see what happens the next time.

she was really cooking. i was using the 16 x 6 prop Evolution. max rpm was about 8000 with that. not bad. did some low fast fly bys, that was cool. engine never quit. i think she is still rich, i am still working on getting her just right. i am close now.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/26/2013 11:41 AM

Luchnia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RoyR
Once I had the servos installed the right one alligned up correctly on the aileron and the left was just off the reinforcement. check my pictures.

Can you or anyone else describe to me what is meant by "the reinforcement" on the aileron? I though the ailerons were made out of a single piece of stock from one end to the other. Are you stating that there is some plywood put in the aileron at a certain spot for reinforcement? I just don't recall anything like that on my last Revolver and I never had an issue.

This one is off about 3/4 of an inch and if it is somehow missing a point of reinforcement that would not be acceptable to me, but if it is no big deal and does not have anything special for reinforcement I don't plan to call in a support ticket.

As always, any help is much appreciated.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/27/2013 9:21 PM

VictoryRoll

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Here are some images of the wingroot-to-servobay issue, along with canopy misalignment:

BTW, the canopy misalignment is an easy fix... just elongate the holes in the firewall, vertically (12 o'clock).

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/27/2013 11:11 PM

RoyR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luchnia

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoyR
Once I had the servos installed the right one alligned up correctly on the aileron and the left was just off the reinforcement. check my pictures.

Can you or anyone else describe to me what is meant by ''the reinforcement'' on the aileron? I though the ailerons were made out of a single piece of stock from one end to the other. Are you stating that there is some plywood put in the aileron at a certain spot for reinforcement? I just don't recall anything like that on my last Revolver and I never had an issue.

This one is off about 3/4 of an inch and if it is somehow missing a point of reinforcement that would not be acceptable to me, but if it is no big deal and does not have anything special for reinforcement I don't plan to call in a support ticket.

As always, any help is much appreciated.

Yes, there is a semi-circle of plywood glued flush on the aileron (and all the other control surfaces) to mount the control horns. When I mounted the right wing the control horn lined up in the center of the plywood. This picture is the left wing, which was aligned wrong. I traced the plywood onto the paper and it shows where the plywood is located. You can see I used ball links, and when I put the link on the other side of the control horn I was able to get the screws in the plywood. It isn't exactly centered now, but structurally it works. Also looking at the bottom of both wings on the airplane, it's not quite symmetrical.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/27/2013 11:14 PM

RoyR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VictoryRoll

Here are some images of the wingroot-to-servobay issue, along with canopy misalignment:

BTW, the canopy misalignment is an easy fix... just elongate the holes in the firewall, vertically (12 o'clock).

It appears from your pictures that it is the same as mine, in that the Left wing is the one that is wrong. The right having the cutout in the right place to align with the aileron. Somebody must have goofed in the factory, making the left and right wing jigs off.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/27/2013 11:52 PM

Luchnia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RoyR

Yes, there is a semi-circle of plywood glued flush on the aileron (and all the other control surfaces) to mount the control horns. When I mounted the right wing the control horn lined up in the center of the plywood. This picture is the left wing, which was aligned wrong. I traced the plywood onto the paper and it shows where the plywood is located. You can see I used ball links, and when I put the link on the other side of the control horn I was able to get the screws in the plywood. It isn't exactly centered now, but structurally it works. Also looking at the bottom of both wings on the airplane, it's not quite symmetrical.

Oh, I know what is meant now. Most planes that don't have horns that go all the way through have thin plywood for the wood screws to hold.

Here are my wing measurements:
Right Wing:
Trailing Edge 12 3/8 Leading Edge 12 1/4
Left Wing:
Trailing Edge 11 7/8 Leading Edge 11 3/4

I took out one of my old Revolver 70 wings and measured the bay and it measured: Trailing Edge 11 7/8 Leading Edge 11 3/4 which compares to the Left Wing measurements above on the new wing.

I don't have a right wing from the old Rev to measure so I don't know about that one. I am wondering now if most of these planes are off some and these newer ones are the worst of the lot. So it would seem that the 12 3/8 (long bay measurement) is the incorrect measurement, but I did not measure the reinforcement block to see if it aligned while I was down at the shop.

As long as my horns will line up on the block then I don't have an issue with them being off from the wing root. The only real issue I have that I don't like is the wing pin on the right wing (left if facing the plane) won't fit without filing the fuselage.

The more I think about it, the more I think I will give GP a call this week and give them an opportunity to get this corrected.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/27/2013 11:59 PM

Luchnia

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I forgot to state that I spoke with a fellow flyer yesterday that was helping someone with a new Rev 70 that was just bought and his servo bays were off too, but his was not as bad as some of these others. I think they said it was less than 3/8 inch overall and his wing pins were a little crooked but his wings would mount ok whereas one of mine won't.

It seems that these newer Rev 70s are having some quality control issues which is certainly alarming for a plane coming from Great Planes. I hope this is not the beginning of a trend. A friend of mine recently bought a GP Yak but it was ok, it only had a small dent in the back.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 12:19 AM

u2fletch

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FWIW, just looked at my wings and the servo bays are off as well. The reinforcement areas on the aileron did match up okay with the pushrods, so it was not noticeable until I put them next to each other.

Did first flights today of plane with XYZ 20 engine. Plane flew great, as expected. Blustery wind conditions with strong crosswinds. Very impressed with handling of the gusty wind. Flying off a grass field and did several smooth touch and goes on the first two flights. On the third flight had a slightly firmer touchdown, but nothing out of the ordinary, and the auto-ejecting gear tripped putting the plane on its belly rather rudely. Typical holes about the size of pennies punched in the lower wing skin.

Examined the fracture area and could see that what little glue was in the area completely separated cleanly. Now I know why guys say to just wait until it breaks before attempting to reinforce area. Now it is very easy for me to put some epoxy on the joint and get a decent glue bond with the supporting structure.

I purposely chose not to do any reinforcing of the gear before I flew as a test of sorts to see how flimsy it really is in stock condition.

Check out the pic of the plywood gear plate with no glue attached, or any wood that broke off with it.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 12:49 AM

JoeMamma

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quote:

ORIGINAL: u2fletch

Check out the pic of the plywood gear plate with no glue attached, or any wood that broke off with it.

Man that really pi**es me off. NO GLUE ATTACHED ! What a shame. Zero quality control.

Makes me wonder about the glue joints where I can't see, like inside the wings.

I finally got around to assembling mine. Can't wait to check the quality control on mine !

The only thing I've found really bad so far is the fiberglass landing gear. I temorarily installed the axles and wheels. The wheels are toed-in about 1". Ouch.....that's really bad as it should be zero inches. When I tried to bend the gear back into position, I heard..........craaaaaack. Damm..........

. In the garbage can they went.

Joe M.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 5:30 AM

ShuttleAU

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Hi All

Reading the posts on the wing servos so I checked mine. They are different and similar to the other posts. I do not know if my first one had the same problem. This would seem to make the problem a world wide issue. I bought this one in November last year and it was probably in the shop for some time before that. I believe that the shop still has one so i might ask the owner to check.

I did not notice when building as the linkage lined up with the reinforcement block. I probably did each wing on different days so not compare them. I always glue the servo boxes into the wings, that has been an issue for a while now.

On the fibreglass landing gear , TNT makes an aluminium version. It has the same same curve as the glass ones and is a two piece set. Much stronger. It is not on their web site , you need to email them and ask.

BC

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 12:15 PM

Luchnia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShuttleAU

Hi All

Reading the posts on the wing servos so I checked mine. They are different and similar to the other posts. I do not know if my first one had the same problem. This would seem to make the problem a world wide issue. I bought this one in November last year and it was probably in the shop for some time before that. I believe that the shop still has one so i might ask the owner to check.

I did not notice when building as the linkage lined up with the reinforcement block. I probably did each wing on different days so not compare them. I always glue the servo boxes into the wings, that has been an issue for a while now.

On the fibreglass landing gear , TNT makes an aluminium version. It has the same same curve as the glass ones and is a two piece set. Much stronger. It is not on their web site , you need to email them and ask.

BC

It makes sense to me that the servo bays are rarely checked as far as distance from the wing root. If they line up with the reinforcement block then if they were off as far as distance I don't see many even checking this. I know I don't recall ever checking this. The only way I would check it is if it was so noticable that I would see it while installing the wings are putting them in the wing bags or when the plane is held upside down for some reason.

I would wager that the Rev 70 has always had servo bays that are not the same distance. As long as they line up with the block is what really matters and are not crooked. One of mine is somewhat crooked by a substantial amount as can be seen in the measurements. I do like my linkages to be setup with straight lines and mechanically sound, so this is not something I am pleased with. I can certainly shim as needed to fix this, but the question remains, should we be repairing this plane to get it in the air?

Did you buy the TNT landing gear? If so, it would be really nice to see a picture what they look like. I personally like the Rev 70 looks with the swept back factory gear. It adds to the characteristics of the plane while landing and in flight. I have never really had any problems with the fiberglass gear except when I crashed once, but for normal flying they have served me extremely well. I do realize that they would not hold up well under extreme circumstances.

I was looking at possibly buying another GP product but this has made me very hesitant at this point of the game. I am sure GP will make this right though as they do offer good support for their products.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 2:47 PM

RoyR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luchnia

I am sure GP will make this right though as they do offer good support for their products.

Yes, their support is quick to respond and replace. However, in my case the replacement parts were just as bad as the ones I sent in (except the cowl) After my last letter to them they offered to replace again, but I had already assembled the plane and flown it. The reason I buy ARFs is because I want to have it in the air within a week of receiving it. (If I build a KIT then I'm responsible for the quality, and I will be taking my time anyway)
Even if they correct all the problems I don't want to have to keep returning parts until I get the good ones. Especially since I paid shipping to return the parts. The reason I pay over $200 for an ARF this size is I expect the first one I get to be as near perfect as possible.

Fact is, they are having problems with the large Revolver, and something should be done about it before they send them out.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 2:55 PM

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Hi

The TNT version copies the same swept back look. Paint them white and it is hard to pick the difference.

BC

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 3:06 PM

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Not sure I see the advantage of an aluminum version of the stock gear. The problem has never been (from what I know) in the strength of the gear itself. Rather it's the poor design (split) and how it's mounted to the fuse (straight-line blind nuts and not enough strength in the fuse area). The split-construction allows - even invites, the torque of landing to pull the gear apart, and the in-line design of the blind nuts doesn't help much. (though if they were mounted to something solid it probably would not give).

I don't think I've seen or heard of any instances where the gear ITSELF failed.

If this TNT version is also split then what are you gaining? One of the main reasons I use the Dubro gear is due to it's single-piece form, and that it's wide-enough to install new blind nuts in a box, four-corner layout.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 3:17 PM

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So true, both times my LG came off it was intact. It comes out in a block from the fuselage

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 3:25 PM

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Mike
You are on the mark about the failure point.
Of the several times that the main LG on my R70 has failed, only once was the LG strut damaged, and that was a power-on steep descent caused by loss of elevator linkage. The LG itself is pretty sturdy, and to the extent that the stock gear absorb some shock, that lessens the stress transmitted to the airframe / LG plate.

The ideal LG situation would be a strong LG plate, with shock absorption in the gear. Oh yeah, that is kind of like how full scales are built. Personally, i like the give of the stock FG gear, or the composite dubros that microdon uses. Tying the two sides together with an aluminum plate would allow the shear stress of a hard landing to be shared by all 4 bolts, although i personally have not gone that route. Likewise, it would be possible to add a bolt or two out of line with the existing bolts to make a box pattern, rather than a line pattern.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/28/2013 3:35 PM

JoeMamma

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quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

I don't think I've seen or heard of any instances where the gear ITSELF failed.

Actually my gear inself didn't fail, it was simply not made straight.

If it was toed-in about 1/32" that would have been OK and I could have lived with it, but it was toed-in about 1 full inch. When I attempted to straighten it out.........craaaaack !

I found a nice aluminum gear in my spare parts pile........don't know the brand but it should work.

Joe M.

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