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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 12:33 AM   
KiwiInOz


 

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From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Sorry if this has been asked before but just about to start a build of the Rev70, as I only really do relaxed sport flying will a Saito FG17 fly this bird?

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 12:50 AM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		RoyR - You're talking about a different plane - problem solved! Just kidding... It's "Revolver".

Kiwi - The DLE 20 is a monster on this plane, so I'd imagine a Saito G17 would be fine for casual flying.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 12:57 AM   
KiwiInOz


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Microdon2, I do have a Mintor 22 floating around but I do not want to build a speed demon and I do not have a lot of spare build time to change out all the supplied hardware. 

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 1:17 AM   
VictoryRoll



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ahicks

Guess I'm still too used to having to build it if I wanted to fly it. Maybe more forgiving of having to tweak a few things while doing the final assembly? Maybe old age just makes me more forgiving?

When I got back into the hobby after a 15 year hiatus 5 or 6 years ago, I thought the degree of prefabrication available in ARFs was awesome! When I look at this 200 dollar kit I see extreme value, even if I have to beef up the gear or possibly fit a few other parts I'm not happy with? Doesn't bother me at all?

I think people should slow down and smell the roses. Asking for perfection in a 200 dollar kit is a bit much. Doubling that price may legitimize this griping? Maybe they should have a second/premium model available with a higher degree of prefab available for those that want the plane assembled in one 4 hour session? As it is, with the work required to straighten out the few known issues taking an extra evening or 2 (including fabing up an alum reinforcement that will make the landing gear mount nearly indestructible) just doesn't seem that much to ask for your return on the investment?

Consider your options? How many other choices do we have in this price, size and weight range that will handle 20cc's like this plane does? How many of those have replacement parts even available?

Yes, I do get the fact that it wouldn't take that much to eliminate some of these issues, especially if there were a shorter path to travel from those constructing the kits to those that are doing final assembly. From that standpoint I can see the purpose for all these notes. Otherwise, I think we're beating up on one of the better kits available to us right now? That's me though. FWIW, -Al




Al,   I think an arguement can be made in a different manner than your statement as it is OK to have to modify, improve or actually repair an ARF before one sets out to do the typical ARF additions, etc, to complete the plane for flight.

What I mean is the following:

I DO understand that it is necessary to do various amounts of work//tasks to get an ARF to be flight ready, tasks that we are all aware of , and most of us enjoy doing.... to a point.   As I stated, the problems with this beautiful aircraft are manufacturer's defects.  I personally believe that they should be eliminated to give the consumer the best possible plane that they are capable of.   As far as your point that the plane is an excellent buy and an excellent flyer is not the point, necessarily.   The arguement being, would I pay more, say $250. for the same plane, but without ANY issues/problems that are created during maufacturing, not end-user fault(s).  So, in my particular beliefs, I feel as though that their (GP's) own Sales & Marketing departments have determined that the correct price point of this plane should be set at $239.... It is not my fault or I have not paid less than the Suggested Mfr.'s Price to get an ARF in the condition one would expect and free of mrf.'s defects.  I WOULD pay a bit more to have the same plane deleivered free of these defects.  You may feel fine with the $239 price with several hours needed to "repair" the plane to it's "expected" condition.  I do not.   Time is money.  My money/time is better spent either flying or scratch-building, than fixing GP's Mfr.'s lack of QC.   That is what is called due-diligence on their part.

In all due respect, I differ on your feelings/statement, as explained above.   BTW, I too am an old-guy... sort of... 58 yrs old.

I respect your thoughts/position, but $239 bucks is their price and I DO expect to get what I paid for, not their problems.  Especially in today's economy where every buck counts.... even my time, and I am sure your time is just as much, if not more valuable than mne.

Fondest Regards,

Don





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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 11:47 AM   
Luchnia


 

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Status: offline 		Just to echo some thoughts that folks have had. We all know we can fix the problems and most buyers probably will because they want to get the plane in the air.

More importantly is that even if we fix the issues is that we make sure GP is aware of the problems (send photos so they can see the issues) so they can get to the bottom of them. I want to know that if I, or my flying buds, buy another Rev 70 it will be ready for the skies in normal time!

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 3:14 PM   
RoyR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: microdon2

RoyR - You're talking about a different plane - problem solved! Just kidding... It's ''Revolver''.

Kiwi - The DLE 20 is a monster on this plane, so I'd imagine a Saito G17 would be fine for casual flying.



Did I do That???? Sorry, My fingers were typing faster than my brain. I really know the name of my plane, honest. It says it on the box, as 'Plane' as day.


I'll be glad when I can join in on this flying discussion for the R E V O L V E R. I had three quick flights before the gear came off. I was just beginning to get the feel of it. Then after putting the cowl back on after the repair I stripped out the prop adaptor on the motor. (I said I was new with electrics.) It had been hard to get the prop nut on since the first time, and it stripped. I'm waiting for a new one to come in. Also it's been cold and windy here so haven't been flying in a week anyway.

However I do have a question for you long time Revolver flyers. I set the throws as per instructions for low and high rates. The first flight was low rates as usual. Once it was airborne I had practically No control. Response was lagging and I even thought I had lost radio contact at one point. So I landed. The next day I put high rates on for the fight and it handled nicely. I was still surprised at the slowness of rolls, even on high rates, considering the size and deflection of the ailerons. I was planning on increasing the throws even more but haven't had another flight since.
Have the rest of you even been able to fly with the low rates as published? I seem to have plenty of speed. Also that cheap electric motor gives it seemingly unlimited vertical climbs, so I think it has enough power. CG is at recommended spot.

This IS the "R E V O L V E R" I'm talking about. That revolution thing, it just flies like something In my imagination.



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 3:29 PM   
landeck


 

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Status: offline 		I fly most of the flight on low rates with very good response. I have an OS 95V four stroke in the R70 which gives good performance.

Bruce

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 3:38 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		Same here - I keep it on low rates for sport flying - gives me plenty of response and decent roll rate. Though I do keep the rudder on high rates, for knife-edge and hammer-heads. I only go high rates on ailerons and elevators for flat spins (and that still scares me a little, as I have yet to convert those high rates to be controlled by one toggle). I would not fly sport with this plane on high rates on ailerons or elevators - WAY too reactive. (twice I took off with high rates on the elevator and almost lost it before I switched it back down to low). Maybe your throws could be increased? (not sure what mine are - but they may be greater than the recommended - will have to measure).

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 4:23 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		OK, i'll be the dissent here.

I think the R70 book rates are TAME. Good to have them for when things get TOO exciting, or when your airframe is moving at 90+ mph.

I like the feel of the plane better on high rates, at usual crusing speeds, and i have a max rates setup beyond high rates that i use for flat spins, KE spins, etc.

The plane snaps much more cleanly on max rates; even on high rates, snap rolls are a bit lazy compared to any of my Extra aiframes.

I have my control surfaces on a single 3-position switch - low/high/max. I know many set up separate switches for each axis but i like the security of being able to pull one switch and get the plane to docile mode.

So Roy, if the rates are tame, dial them up, or alternatively prop the plane up with a 10 pitch prop so that her cruising speed is higher, which will make her more responsive to lower deflection rates.


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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 4:38 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		wjc - can you share your high rate throws, in inches? You don't find flying at high rates too twitchy?

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 5:06 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike
I'll measure my throws tonight or tomorrow and post them.
I do use expo on my control surfaces which mitigates the twitchiness.

And, now that i am flying at 80-90, sometimes 105+, i use low rates more.

BIll


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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 5:09 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		wjc - cool, thanks. I'll measure mine, too (just out of curiosity). I do think my throws are greater than recommended, too.

Wondering what would happen if you tried at snap-roll at 105mph? If you DO try it pls be sure to tape it!

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 7:14 PM   
lopflyers


 

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Status: offline 		Dont, if u like ur plane

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 10:24 PM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lopflyers

Dont, if u like ur plane

+ a billion or so!

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 11:06 PM   
Granpooba


 

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From: Queensbury, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Have been flying my Rev 70's on LOW rates, with - 40% EXPO. They fly great for me and can perform just about any manuver that I want them to do.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/30/2013 11:51 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Guys
My snaps are generally at the top of a loop - an avalanche - so probably airspeed is about 30-40mph. I would not think of a snap or wall maneuver at 80+ mph. I do think it would probably break, most likely the wings. I like my little R70! I will post some accelerometer measurements from my Eagle Tree instruments as i find interesting data. As stated before, i have an honest average 109.5mph straight and level, averaging upwind and downwind runs, on a 14x12 prop.

So far, max g along the Z axis (vertical axis / yaw axis) has been 6.2; not sure whether that was in a snap, or from a pull into the vertical from a high speed pass.



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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/31/2013 1:00 AM   
ahicks


 

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Status: offline 		I like full time full rudder authority too, mostly for KE control. I think I remember speeding up the ailerons from suggested low rate a little. Elevator low rate is set so the plane won't stall while holding full up (makes that so simple you almost feel like your cheating!).

Speaking of knife edge, I installed the wheel pants to see if it would KE any better? Sure does! That extra side area up in front of the CG made quite a difference!

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RE: Larger Revolver - 1/31/2013 3:05 AM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Mike:
Here are my throws as currently set up; we'll see if the table formatting holds


Surface...............Low.................High.................Max
Aileron................ 5/8" .............. 1 1/8" .............. 1 1/2"
Elevator............... 5/8" .............. 1 1/4" ............ 1 5/8"
Rudder .............. 2" ............... 2 3/4" ........... 3 1/2"

All deflections measured from the widest part of the movable surface, from neutral, one direction (approx double this number for complete throw range).

I by no means claim that these are the best set of deflections, or even necessarily sensible, but i love how she flies.

As Al noted, with low rate elevator, she will not snap with full elevator deflection in normal flight mode, which really can avoid a bunch of trouble; low rate safety switch=>safe airplane.

Bill


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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 1:07 AM   
ICEM@N


 

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From: Bauru, BRAZIL
Status: offline 		hi guys . last week I did the first test flight ... And I cannot consider that a Maiden flight !! No problems on take off or landing , just some CG adjusts that are already done ...
But the PS 120 AX and a Xoar 16x8 is a very bad combination ... low Rpm´s and the engine couldnt get a speed performance on flight ...

What do you say ??? What prop do I need ?

I need to freeze ...

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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 2:17 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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That is about the right prop for an AX 1.20 2-stroke. If you say the rpms are low, i would think that the engine is not properly tuned. If i recall correctly, my OS AX 1.20 would turn an APC 16x8 about 8800-9000 on the ground.

If you need additional speed, the 1.20 will capably swing a 15x10 APC.

I'm surprised that you do not find the combination quite spirited.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 2:38 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		wjc \ Iceman- I'm using an APC 15x10 with my OS 120 4s. Good speed and vertical. You might try an APC 15x8, to get into the higher RPM's. Or try a XOAR - more efficient prop - if you're not worried about ground strikes.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 2:54 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Mike
Agree on the Xoar; that is what i fly if i can find the dia x pitch that i need.
Did you measure your throws for low and high rates?


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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 4:02 PM   
microdon2


 

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Status: offline 		wjc - Just measured my Rev 70 throws. These are from the widest part of the control surface ( as you did):

Surface............ Low ............. High
Aileron............... 7/8" ........... 1 3/8"
Elevator.......... 1 1/4" ............ 1 3/4"
Rudder ........... 2 1/4" ............ 3 1/4"

Looks like your Max and my High rates are close. Do you use Low or High for Sport flying?

Mike

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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/2/2013 5:02 PM   
wjcalhoun


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike
If i am flying for fun, with my 12 pitch prop, i'm generally on low rates. Your low rate elevator has a lot of throw; will your plane snap on low rates with max elevator?

She does L&R KE flight well on low rates; about the only things I need high or max rates for are flat spins, KE spins, blenders, and attempts at hovering. I can get her to hover, but there is a fair bit of wing rock.

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RE: Larger Revolver - 2/3/2013 11:37 AM   
ICEM@N


 

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Status: offline 		I have a 15x13 ... could be possible ??


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