Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (Full Version)

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Dan Vincent -> Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/18/2009 12:51 PM)

I recenlty picked up a nice Zeiss Jena 2.5 and was wondering what they were used for. It has rear intake so I'm wondering if it was considered a performance engine.

It's RRV with ball bearings, fairly compact and weighs 6.4 ounces. The only thing I don't like is the large prop driver which forces you to drill your props oversize.

Anyone have any info?




gmedson -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/19/2009 1:52 AM)

[:)] Hi Dan You have a Zeiss Jena 2.5 cc DK. Although rear rotor, it is a sport, not a performance engine. In order to assess the quality and characteristics of this, and other Zeiss engines, one should consider how things were done in the DDR (East Germany). In that planned economy commercial enterprises were state owned or had state participation. Full employment of the population was mandatory, and a bloated production staff tended not to be highly motivated with respect to quality. So Jena engines tend to be good but not great. Fits tend to be too tight. Access to raw materials was not consistent and a great deal of scrounging (now "recycling") )was necessary. One consequence is that ball bearings are not good quality-and they tend to be fitted too tightly, altogether resulting in a rough feel. At the Jena model airplane plant, response to official directives also led to constant development of new models, which differed cosmetically but did not produce better performance. This makes Jena collecting interesting because of the variety of engines available.

I am interested in engines made by companies that are well known for some other primary type of product so that model airplane engines come as a bit of surprise. E.g., Citizen Watch Company making G-Mark engines and Karl Zeiss, famous for high-quality optical goods, making the Jenas (Jena, DDR, was the city).

I have five Zeiss Jenas, and their portraits are attached below. The wee 1cc engine with the red cylinder muff has piston-port induction, but with the venturi pointing forward, parallel with the crankshaft, making it quite distinctive. It has two races of ball bearings, which seems to be standard for all Jenas, and dates from about 1960. The 2 cc with the blue muff (Jena's head colors indicate capacity) is a Model D RC from about 1961. The two with the smaller diameter black head muffs are 2.5 cc, perhaps from about 1961. One has reed- valve induction , identified as a Model MK and the rotary-valve induction engine, like yours, is a DK. These 2.0 and 2.5 cc models have a long crankcase, whereas the earlier equivalent engines have a shorter crankcase but the same-length crankshaft. The difference is taken up by a black-anodized aluminum spacer between the case and the prop driver. This arrangement is illustrated by the rotary-valved Model DN, below, which has a larger diameter black head muff and dates from about 1960. Note the milled-off bosses below the exhaust ports, which on the Aktivist III (1959) and earlier models were drilled and threaded to receive three head bolts, as on PAWs and Ollies. Note that the box is incorrectly labeled-it says Jena 2,5 DK but this is how it came to me.

These are only a few of the many models of Jena engines from that period. Note how compressed the time line is-lotsa variations in a few short years!

Most of this information is from Selbstzuenderkleinstmotoren und Gluehzuenderkleinstmotoren aus Jena, a self-published book by Eberhard Stenzel, 2007. To my knowledge, it is available only in German.

Now, have I run any of my little Jenas? No, I have not! I always have great intentions to run each new acquisition. But mostly they collect in the cabinet as hanger queens!

As a final item of interest, check out eBay Item No. 300357862286, if you have not already done so. Or if you have, go back and drool over it some more. These boxer-style diesel twins were produced by Rolf Roehner in Western Germany using Zeiss Jena piston-cylinder-head muff sets and sold by the firm Robbe.

Regards. -Gary




gmedson -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/19/2009 1:58 AM)

Um-RCU lost the pics. I'll try again. -Gary




Dan Vincent -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/19/2009 5:08 AM)

Gary,

Thanks for all the useful info.

This .15 seems to have great compression and the bearings feel smooth. If I ever get some free time I plan to run it.

I just sold two of those cute little 1.0cc Jenas and then came into another one last week, along with the 2.5cc.

The exhaust port fitting on your 1.0cc interests me. Is it a factory option or something you made. I like anything that gets diesel exhaust residue off the model.

Here are pictures of the two Jena 1.0cc engines I just sold. One has a thick top fin like yours and the other has thinner top fins, as does the one I picked up last week.

The 1.0cc engines are real conversation pieces.




gmedson -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/24/2009 8:28 PM)

[:)] Hi Dan! You are lucky if your Jena 2.5 DK has smooth bearings. Most of my Jenas have a cogging feel owing to action of the ballbearings.

Your two Jena 1cc engines are a version 1 (thick, hemispherical top of head muff) and version 2 (one more fin, flatter head top), according to the book I already quoted. Both listed as about 1960. The sheet metal exhaust stacks were a factory option; the next page of my book shows a Jena 1W (marine with water jacket) with the exhaust stacks.

Indeed the Jena I's are cute and have loads of character!

I like Jenas because there are many versions that show rapid evolution (though mostly cosmetic...) and because of the connection with Karl Zeiss Optik. And because of insight into manufacturing in the DDR. Another point the book makes is that individual Jena parts are quite good, but assembly of the engines degrades the quality somewhat.

A German friend says that nowadays, if one wants to see new roads and other public works, one needs to go to the former East Germany. There they are, paid for mostly by the western Germans, who do not have such nice new roads and other public stuff.

I do not have any Russian engines. Do you? My impression is that only the high-end, contest-grade (expensive!) engines are really good. Is this true? Or an overstatement?

Regards. -Gary




Dan Vincent -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/26/2009 4:21 AM)

Gary,

The one Russian engine that I know is good is the MK-17 diesel. I would recommend that one to anybody wanting to get their feet wet in diesels.

It has good power, easy starting, pretty quiet and is fairly inexpensive.

I have several MK-16 and MK-17 engines as they had an interesting progression of models over the years.




gmedson -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/26/2009 11:25 PM)

Thanks, Dan! I shall start looking for one, new-in-box with propeller, other stuff, and papers. Altogether, makes an interesting piece. -Gary




SGC -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/27/2009 12:36 AM)

Gary,
Edd Carlson has the Mk17 NIB for US$40 ( http://carlsonengineimports.net/index.shtml ) so dont pay over this from another source, Ive seen some ridiculouse prices payed on the austion site as of late.
Other reasonable priced diesel's are the "Sharma " a sorta PAW copy , a bit agricultural on the outside, but fits and finnish inside -were it counts, are good and they perform as well as a PAW, Edd also has these.
Stewart




gmedson -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/28/2009 11:42 PM)

[:)]Hi Dan & Stewart- Thanks, guys. Yes, indeed, I have ordered a Mk 17 from Ed. His $40 special beats likely eBay deals, with which one takes the chance of getting less than what seems promised... Ed and Eric Clutton supplied me with my first diesels some years ago.

I forgot to say earlier that your little engine boxes and labels are really neat, Dan! I may bid on one of your eBay engines, but you better hope I don't win. I am cheap, and I bid low!

Regards. -Gary




Dan Vincent -> RE: Anyone use a Zeiss Jena 2.5cc diesel? (10/29/2009 2:38 AM)

Gary,

Thanks, my wife suggested I make boxes for some of my Ebay engines and it sees to work out pretty well so far. I have some Oliver Tiger Cubs on there this week that have over 80 people watching them.

The clear display boxes work out well for collectors because you can view the engines easily without exposing them to air, fingerprints and abuse.




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