RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review

RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review
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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 7:47 AM

bubbajoexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkingSquirrel

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbajoexx

checked your calculations and the m2 is 65 inches long converted to 1:16 scale makes the gun 4.0625 1nches long the mato gun is 4.587 inches thats not 1:16 scale
http://jbwid.com/scalcalc.htm use the calculator used here and check it your self

You missed the part where he stated that different versions of the M2 over the 60+ years its been used has varied slightly in overall size, which is true. Thats why he used the barrel for the measurement as it's always been the same. And quite frankly, I'd believe him over you anyday.

get real you cant remove the barrel to measure it the barrel is measured from tip to tip

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 7:49 AM

swathdiver

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Perry,

I'm a Divemaster, not a CAD specialist, engineer and don't speak Chinese. I didn't know anything about Shermans either until this project began. Despite all of that, here are the first of many tanks from one of your own.

Now that they've hit the shelves, the tanking community can help improve them.

I believe if the suspension was unsprung on a real sherman the wheels would also touch. The don't move up and down that much in real life.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 7:54 AM

bubbajoexx

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the wheels travel 4 + inches up and down on a real sherman you need to see one on the field to see how much they do move as i have at the military base in Trenton at the yearly parade

check out this vid you will see the vvss in action its not like the real thing but the best i can do right now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8FGf5I4urk

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 7:58 AM

Perry S.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Perry,

I'm a Divemaster, not a CAD specialist, engineer and don't speak Chinese. I didn't know anything about Shermans either until this project began. Despite all of that, here are the first of many tanks from one of your own.

Now that they've hit the shelves, the tanking community can help improve them.

I believe if the suspension was unsprung on a real sherman the wheels would also touch. The don't move up and down that much in real life.

Just a personal rant. No harm intended, you know I am a fan.
Perry

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 8:00 AM

swathdiver

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You're welcome! Can't wait until you guys get your deliveries and share your thoughts with us!

Here's some quick pics with the old camera, the newer one is missing now! Kids!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 8:10 AM

swathdiver

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Tim: I didn't fool with the volume tonight. Maybe tomorrow on the other tank. "Big Gee" is already apart!

Viper: It's the same tank. The one in the center of the box art had some computer stuff done to make it all dirty. You wanted it that way with peeling paint? The other photo was either different lighting or your monitor settings. I must say it looks great in person, the color of the paint, yes it's painted, looks spot on for Tamiya OD.

When I find the good camera tomorrow will take some shots outside for you.

Googly: I don't have the exact measurements of a T23 turret anymore, lost all that stuff when my Raid-0 crashed. I am however, scouring the internet for 1:1 dimensions so I can spec the tank out and respond to the criticism that it's way out of scale.

Anyone who is a "Shermanholic" will know that 100% accuracy isn't possible by us mere mortals. Just look at all those VVSS bogies in 1/35 scale!

Perry: None taken my friend!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 8:17 AM

BarkingSquirrel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbajoexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkingSquirrel

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbajoexx

checked your calculations and the m2 is 65 inches long converted to 1:16 scale makes the gun 4.0625 1nches long the mato gun is 4.587 inches thats not 1:16 scale
http://jbwid.com/scalcalc.htm use the calculator used here and check it your self

You missed the part where he stated that different versions of the M2 over the 60+ years its been used has varied slightly in overall size, which is true. Thats why he used the barrel for the measurement as it's always been the same. And quite frankly, I'd believe him over you anyday.

get real you cant remove the barrel to measure it the barrel is measured from tip to tip

Are you serious? Scratch that, are you even older than 10? Because I sure as hell can't tell by your posts. Apparently in your little world no one knows the exposed exterior length of a M2 barrel, only over all length.

Never before have I ever wished this forum has an Ignore User function than I do now. I'll just have to ignore you myself then.

*Edit - Nevermind it does have an Ignore User function. It has been deployed.

Oh no! This tiny piece on the belly of the tank is 1/600th of an inch off! I know this to be true due to my 100% knowledge of the subject!!!!111oneone

< Message edited by BarkingSquirrel -- 10/30/2009 6:18 PM >

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 8:19 AM

blitzkrieg65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

You're welcome! Can't wait until you guys get your deliveries and share your thoughts with us!

Here's some quick pics with the old camera, the newer one is missing now! Kids!

Looks like a Sherman to me and all the hatches that open killer!

Hey give me a shot of the boggie from the side, like stand it up and let me see it looking at it from the front,, and does it dis assemble any more then you have it?

If somene does not see the fix I do before I get mine ,, I will really be surprised! Hint, snip, snip, cut, shave off some,, drill, drill, 2 pins,, one spring, done!

The Blitz

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 8:51 AM

swathdiver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbajoexx

the wheels travel 4 + inches up and down on a real sherman

So in 1/16 scale that's .25 inches. Should we start a post of all the other model tanks with their wheel travel compared to their full sized counterpart?

Phil: Will do tomorrow, the pics are blurry with this camera. Now that you mention it, yep! There are some screws in there!

The road wheel's width is 9 inches on the real thing. In 1/16 scale that's .5625 inches and the Mato Sherman measures.... drum roll... .5625 inches!

I think the fix posted with the first pictures will do the trick.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 9:27 AM

killick64

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Regarding the Sherman suspension: I was looking at my 1/30 R/C Sherman from HL, with it's "working" VVSS. The suspension moves up and down, and seesaws back-and forth. It feels like there's a coil spring in the vertical element, and a bit of spring steel on the arms that the wheels attach to. I haven't taken it apart (the suspension, that is): but could this suggest another "fix" ?

Nice photos, Swath!! My tanks aren't here yet but yours has showed me obviously, what one can do. AND what one "cannot".....You really must have a talk with your "Driver" !!!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 10:02 AM

swathdiver

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Took a bogie apart just now just do some measuring and exploring. Sure looks cool in person!

At the bottom of the Suspension Bracket are 2 Gudgeons which are pins that affix the Arms to the Suspension Bracket. This part of the Arm stays in place. Above both Arms is a one piece Lever. The Lever attaches to the Spring Seat in the center and the Volute Springs are above that. The ends of the Lever Arm press down on the Arm about halfway down to keep the Road Wheel in contact with the Track.

Now I'm no rocket scientist but it appears to me that when the front Lever is pushed up by Arm it's going to slide some and push the rear Arm down.

Can someone explain it better?

Ok, on to measurements for the VVSS M4 Bogie! Refer to the picture below for position of A-E:

Actual Size To 1/16 Scale Mato Mart Difference Percentage
A 19 1.188 1.25 -0.063 95%
B 17.5 1.094 1.125 -0.031 97%
C 11.75 0.734 0.750 -0.016 98%
D 8.375 0.524 0.594 -0.070 88%
E 20 1.250 1.313 -0.063 95%
Wheel to Wheel Spacing 33 2.063 2.156 -0.094 96%
Roller Wheel Diameter 9 0.563 0.563 0.000 100%

"Shermanholics" know that many different foundries cast these parts and made changes to them over the course of production. Upon close inspection slight detail and size differences are noticeable, especially at the bottom of the bracket where the gudgeons go.

Sorry about the numbers being all scrunched up, it looks good when you type and edit!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 11:26 AM

JB_DK

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Hi Swath....

Have you had a look on the inside, what kind of gears, motors ect does it come with?

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 11:39 AM

swathdiver

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The gearbox is enclosed with plastic gears, presumably runs a ratio of 39:1 like the others. The motors appear to be though I haven't looked closely, the white capped low rpm Suntech 385s.

Someone mentioned that the tracks were too wide. The real track is 16-9/16 inches wide or 1.035 inches in 1/16 scale. The Mato Mart Sherman track is 1.03125 inches wide.

I'll take some better pictures today and post.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 11:42 AM

calvinlo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

So in 1/16 scale that's .25 inches. Should we start a post of all the other model tanks with their wheel travel compared to their full sized counterpart?

Thanks swathdiver for the maths. 0.25 in is just around 6mm - That sure put things into proper perspective!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 12:01 PM

swathdiver

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Sure does doesn't it!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 12:28 PM

TXtanker

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Hey Swath I usually dont post much, but could not resist... Thanks for all your work that you have done with this tank I think it looks pretty damn good!! Its about inline with what I was expecting them to produce, not much different than the other tanks out there.....as the majority of opinions trickle in I think it will be well liked!! I like the way your handling the whole thing! now get some rest!!!
Dan

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 12:37 PM

swathdiver

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Thanks Dan! Good advice, I'm calling it a day!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 12:48 PM

killick64

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Amen and Ditto to everything Tex said! Basically it sounds like the suspension is pretty much what I've got in my 1/30 Sherman....the "rocker" is free to pivot, and a spring in the upper part of the vertical element pushes on a rod that maintains enough tension to keep at least one roadwheel in contact with the track. (Tons o' fun running up Anna's toes with this little tank and watching it "bite her ankles"! )

6mm of suspension travel.....? Sheesh that's more than I have in my $2000 wheelchair!!

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 1:28 PM

YHR

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I love those hatches. This will be so easy to mount the on-off switch and charging Jack. Funny how what one person complains about, is actually a good thing to someone else.

I am curious why Bubba was so intent on picking this to pieces????? Yes it not perfect, but it doesn't look that bad to me.

Barking Squirrel.

Calm down man., you're gonna blow a blood vessel. I don't know what motivated Bubba to go on the attack on this tank, but he is entitled to his opinions. Swatchdiver is doing a good job remaing objective and just presenting the facts, to let people make up there own minds how good this tank is. Bubba chose to get subjective, and lost all objectivity on his first post, but I don't think it is fair to attack him personally. He is presenting his opinion, and some of what he says is correct. It is not 100% accurate.

Please don't take any offense, it is just is a little uncomfortable hearing somebody insulted, so I just wanted to voice my opinion on that matter. Remember, in this media all we have to judge character on is the words that we write. Take a deep breath, calm down, and hum Lional Richie's "Were gonna have a party"

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 2:00 PM

tc1cat

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WOW!! Can't we all just get along!! I feel that swathdiver is doing and has done a great job in his review of this NEW tank. Look how everyone cut down the Tamiya Panther and King Tiger when they came out. If you had paid Tamiya prices for a Mato tank then I could see everyones ranting about things being wrong. I feel that this tank will be accepted as is by most people. Sure lots of us get to be rivet counters when it comes to our own tanks but lots of other people just enjoy what they can afford. After being in this hobby for over 5 years and seeing all of the different tanks and conversions come out that we could only dream about, this tank should be welcomed and not degraded. If Mato or whomever is planning to come out with many other VVSS vehicles, what do you think they are saying to themselves now after some of the comments being made about this tank. I for one welcome this new model as a stepping stone for more GREAT tanks to made for us to enjoy. You have to remember Mato and Heng Long are not making museum quality models. They are making TOYS for everyone to play with.

Just my opinion of the situation.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 2:57 PM

kalnaren

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Swath, and idea how well the plastic gearbox will hold up?

Edit: nvm, saw your reply to my post on RC groups.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 3:20 PM

bigfiver69

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Hey guys,

First up, Swath - well done on all the hard work to help bring the hobby a tank that everyone wants.

The more shots that I see of the Sherman, the more that I'm okay with it. Is it perfect? No. Can it be the basis of a great model, with some very simple additions and good paint? Absolutely.

I have a bold prediction - over the next couple of months, we are going to see some AMAZING builds off this tank. Guys will make their adjustments, share tips, find great paint schemes, swap turrets, add all kinds of cool Sh*t to it...

At the end of the day, it's a solid tank for $150. With LOOAAAAADS of potential.

In this hobby, that's a blessing.

Shep

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 4:17 PM

kalnaren

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I'd really love to try and mod one into a recognisable VC Firefly. I think that would involve a complete turret rebuild though

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 5:25 PM

googlydoogly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalnaren

I'd really love to try and mod one into a recognisable VC Firefly. I think that would involve a complete turret rebuild though

Mato's planning on making different tanks using this Sherman chassis, including a Firefly! That's the one tank I'm truly waiting for.

But if you can't wait, you can definitely custom make a Firefly now, by using a Tamiya Sherman's turret, and modding it.

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RE: Panzerkampfwagen M4A1(76)W - Review - 10/30/2009 5:44 PM

rgallant

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I love these discussions,

Take the complete overall length of a .50 including grips and you get 72 inches or 4.525 scale with no flash hider. So pretty close .062 of inch off not massively off. One other thing to consider this was a tank with a lot of variations both in number of models and variation with in individual model ranges, so some errors may creep in.

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