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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/21/2012 10:32 AM   
cutarug



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From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I am converting an OS 120FS and have followed the posts here. I am using a CIU-P8 (walbro equiv of a WT539) and want to use the pulse hole in the flange that bolts to the engine.
Do I have to modify this for 4-stroke use as stated in a reply here , if so how do you modify the carby? I would prefer not to use the crankcase vent because of the oil issue.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/21/2012 9:08 PM   
dogshome



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From: newark, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		What oil issue ???

Using the crankcase pressure gives a good strong pulse. Using the pumping cover as a through-way in the pulse/breather line stops any collection of oil.

The vacuum/stop/vacuum/stop at the back of the inlet valve probably won't move the diaphragm enough to pump without a spring. You could just run a tap from the crankcase to the pump in parallel with the normal crank vent. I've not tried that, but it's easy to set-up and you'll know straight away if it works because it'll draw fuel from the tank (or not!). Would probably need an electric starter to get that 'leaky' system going, but it might be OK.

Springs on the diaphragm are unnecessary if you use the through-way.

Spring may work using the standard 2-stroke style vacuum tap, but you're not looking at a lot of pressure change compared to the piston pumping the crankcase



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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/21/2012 10:48 PM   
cutarug



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Status: offline 		Dogshome thanks for the reply. Your sketch on a previoud post now makes sence. I use the crankcase breather for the line to the pump cover and then a line out again into the inlet manifold which is under vacuum to draw the oil through.
I have put 0.75mm of shims under the head to decrease the compression on my old OS120FS ( inclined rocker covers) do you think I will have any over heating problems, and how hot is too hot?

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/21/2012 11:06 PM   
dogshome



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Status: offline 		No probs. let me know how it goes!

I didn't have any trouble with pinging or overheating on the ASP 180s and didn't alter compression. There is probably a better tune than I have, but on gas and ignition it turns a 16*8 in a similar way to an 18*8 on 5% glow fuel. Which I was happy with.

You could probably fine tune the compression on the O.S. The ASP/SC seems very easy going unless you over prop it. 18*8 on petrol runs a bit hard and slow, on glow it's about right - but 20*8 is too much. If it goes GRRRRR! when opening up, then it's too much load.

I haven't noticed much heat on petrol. They were cool running on glow though. You should be able to put your finger on the lower crankcase even with petrol.

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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun :-)

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/22/2012 1:51 AM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		.75 mm (.030") is a HUGE compression reduction. Too much...not sure you can even adjust the valves even. Just run 87 octane oxygenated gas. The methanol will actually cool the engine.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/22/2012 8:33 PM   
dogshome



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Status: offline 		30mm bore by 27 stroke = 19cc ish.

Say, 9:1 compression gives a head volume of 2cc ish

0.75mm is about 0.5cc, so gives just over 7:1 compression (ish).


If 9:1 is standard (my guess) then 0.75mm gives quite a drop.

0.75mm on an m3 tappet thread is 2 turns, which is quite a lot, although it will probably take it.



I agree. 0.75mm is a huge chunk. 0.25 is probably very safe.

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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun :-)

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 1:24 PM   
cutarug



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Status: offline 		I have finished the conversion and will try it out this weekend. Thanks for all the help and advice, the shims I added are a total of 0.75 including the stock shim and these motors had a habbit of detonating and breaking rods so it was about 12-14 :1 in original form. I will post my trial results after the tests.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 4:22 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		Please correct me if I'm not thinking about this the right way, but .75 mm increase in head height raises up the entire tappet, pivot point and all. thus creating a .75 mm gap on both sides of the pivot point. So to adjust the valve you actually have 1.5 mm to make up which would be four turns. Not sure if there is enough thread to do that, even if it was a good idea which it isn't.

< Message edited by Pull Up Now! -- 5/24/2012 9:15 PM >

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 9:07 PM   
dogshome



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Status: offline 		If the compression is 12 or 14:1 (eek!) then 0.75mm makes good sense

It's assembled, so the the tappet must have had enough adjustment

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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun :-)

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 9:08 PM   
dogshome



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cutarug

I have finished the conversion and will try it out this weekend. Thanks for all the help and advice, the shims I added are a total of 0.75 including the stock shim and these motors had a habbit of detonating and breaking rods so it was about 12-14 :1 in original form. I will post my trial results after the tests.



Looking good

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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun :-)

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 9:35 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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From: Northfield, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Just curious where you got the specs for that old OS 120 4 stroke compression ratio. That data isn't usually supplied by the manufacturer. Moreover, it's hard to measure because you have to know the exact volume of the irregularly shaped cavity above the piston at TDC, including the squishband and the region around the valves. The only practical way to measure this is using water or oil to get the volume.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/24/2012 10:16 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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Status: offline 		I thought some might be interested in this project I'm going to try. If anyone has any information, that would be nice too. This is a Stihl 31.5cc 4 stroke weed trimmer engine. It weights 37 ounces without the prop hub, which is not too bad compared to the other weedie 4 strokes out there that have huge oil sumps made out of aluminum. The size of this one is much smaller, and doable.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/25/2012 12:41 PM   
spaceworm


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pull Up Now!

I thought some might be interested in this project I'm going to try. If anyone has any information, that would be nice too. This is a Stihl 31.5cc 4 stroke weed trimmer engine. It weights 37 ounces without the prop hub, which is not too bad compared to the other weedie 4 strokes out there that have huge oil sumps made out of aluminum. The size of this one is much smaller, and doable.


Would that be the 4-MIX where you add oil to the gas but it is a 4 stroke? I have been looking for one of those to convert. Looking forward to your results. I have three of the Ryobi 4 strokes. Not much good to read about converting them though due to the oil sump issues. Thanks and good luck with the Stihl.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/25/2012 5:18 PM  1 votes
CH Ignitions


 

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Status: offline 		Cutarug,

If you do not mind ...I will suggest couple things to have a bit cleaner set-up.
It looks good but you can try couple things.
On the carb addaptor you can make a internal port that will communcate with carb pulse hole.
Take off the pupming side cover and if you have a milling ability...use a 3/8 end mill and go 0.5mil or more down to
make a seat for a spring. Now you can install a spring between the cover and diafragm ....that on Walbro
Zama uses  a more stiffer material for the pumping side , the carbs I tried from zama I did not had to do the seat thing.
Try first without the crank pulse....worst of the worst will not pump and then you connect it back.
I will try to post a picture to show  what I have done on Walboro Carbs  to get them working on 4 stroke engines.
This way you will not need to use the crank case pulse. I will post a picture next week. I am out now for Memorial Hol.

Thanks
Adrian

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/27/2012 5:16 AM   
cutarug



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From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Test flew the converted 120 today in a Lazy Ace,
Motor sounded great and ran perfectly with a slow 1800 idle and 7800 on a 16 x8, I am hooked now on petrol 4-strokes.
The next one will have a spring in the pump and no external piping.
The previous post was an accident OK instead of preview.


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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/28/2012 2:48 AM   
SkyPilot101


 

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Status: offline 		How are you guy's tapping the mounting holes for the hall sensor mounted to the front bearing area of the crankcase?
are you just drilling untill you hit the bearing race, then running a tap? Dose'nt seam like much thread will be cut for the sensor mount?

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 5/28/2012 7:17 PM   
dogshome



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Status: offline 		Yes

I make a plug tap from an M3 screw. The aluminium is very easy to tap and retains a very good thread.

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肉(ròu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun :-)

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 2/8/2013 1:31 AM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys....keep the good ideas coming! 

Thanks, Capt,n 

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 2/8/2013 3:05 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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From: Northfield, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I'm about to embark on my most ambitious GTGC (glow-to-gas conversion) project yet. An OS Pegasus 3.2 flat four cyl four stroke engine. I'll use it on this plane, new on the market. See this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11374477/anchors_11374477/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#11374477

If anyone has any ideas & suggestions, I'd love to hear it.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 2/8/2013 11:17 PM   
tkg


 

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Status: offline 		Think of two flat twins and use two twin ignitions, two sensors, one magnet. Or make a belt drive distributor time it like a vw.

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 2/9/2013 5:39 PM   
av8tor1977



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pull Up Now!

I thought some might be interested in this project I'm going to try. If anyone has any information, that would be nice too. This is a Stihl 31.5cc 4 stroke weed trimmer engine. It weights 37 ounces without the prop hub, which is not too bad compared to the other weedie 4 strokes out there that have huge oil sumps made out of aluminum. The size of this one is much smaller, and doable.


These make a good conversion. I've done two that I sold and the people are happy with them, and I have a 36cc that I kept for myself. They are surprisingly powerful for a four stroke. Mods to the carb are usually necessary to get them to run rich enough with a free breathing exhaust and no air cleaner. I had to change the high speed check valve in the throat of the carb to get them to flow enough fuel. A friend of mine was able to drill his high speed check valve out for more flow, but you have to be exceedingly careful doing this so as not to ruin the valve nor get drilling chips in them as you cannot disassemble them to clean them. The high speed check valve is the round brass valve that you see protruding into the throat of the carb when you look into the throat of the carb. It is pressed into place but can be carefully removed with a punch and hammer, then re-installed.

AV8TOR

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 2/19/2013 11:53 PM   
jjscott



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Status: offline 		I have a Walbro WT-456-1 carb and other conversion parts listed in the For Sale forum in case anyone is interested.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemID=901569

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemID=901571

Jim

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 3/14/2013 8:39 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		I know this must sound dum, but i just got a ASP 1.80 convershion kit from ST Engines.

Unless I missed it, it has no directions.

It comes with a new hub, with mag installed and a ring that fits around the motor.

How do you know if you got the timing set right?

Your supposed to set the Magnet 28deg BTDC?

How do you know your there? Make a degree wheel out of plasitic?

Thanks mike

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 3/14/2013 9:04 PM   
Pull Up Now!



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ORIGINAL: mikes68charger

I know this must sound dum, but i just got a ASP 1.80 convershion kit from ST Engines.

Unless I missed it, it has no directions.

It comes with a new hub, with mag installed and a ring that fits around the motor.

How do you know if you got the timing set right?

Your supposed to set the Magnet 28deg BTDC?

How do you know your there? Make a degree wheel out of plasitic?

Thanks mike

Doesn't sound 'dum'. All questions welcome.

First, contact ST for instructions. Did an ignition module come with this kit? What are you planning on doing for carburetion?

As for the timing, you don't set the MAGNET per se at 28 DBTDC, but you set the magnet so the hall sensor fires the spark plug at 28 DBTDC. This is because usually magnets and hall sensors don't trigger right under each other, but rather as one approaches and the other leaves each other's vicinity. Find a degree wheel online. Here's one from the old CH Ignition. Scale it as needed, print it, and glue it to a piece of stiff cardboard. keep it....you'll use it over and over. http://www.google.com/imgres?start=208&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&biw=1595&bih=920&tbm=isch&tbnid=uFo6BkYzdiezSM:&imgrefurl=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp%3Fm%3D10850813&docid=ffX-fYe5i42OvM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/22988/Us55157.jpg&w=780&h=1212&ei=DCtCUf7aPOm1ygHo2YC4BA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=258&page=5&tbnh=143&tbnw=92&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:200,i:37&tx=73&ty=74

Sounds like you bought a magnet wheel that maybe has a set screw? If so, set up the degree wheel on the engine. Install the hall sensor.
1. Clamp some kind of pointer from the engine to the degree wheel.
2. Then, remove the glow plug and use a toothpick to stick down in the cylinder.
3. Find TDC through "feel" of the piston pushing on the toothpick.
4. Without moving the crank off from TDC, slip the degree wheel around so zero is lined up with the pointer. Gently tighten the degree wheel.
5. rotate the crank & degree wheel together to 28 DBTDC.
6. Energize the ignition module, hooked up to the hall sensor.
7. without moving the crank, slide the magnet ring around CCW while watching the spark plug.
8. when the plug fires, tighten the set screw in the magnet ring.
9. figure out your carburetion strategy, go fly, and have fun!

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RE: 180FS Glow to Gas - 3/14/2013 9:14 PM   
CH Ignitions


 

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Status: offline 		HI Mike,

If you need any help, call me and I will walk you over the phone how to time it.

Also use this link to get timing instructions also on bottom of page is a green button to print a degree wheel.

Call 478 247 7275

Thanks
Adrian

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