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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 4:45:55 AM   
Ross Kean



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Had to build this one for Canada Day!! Didn't get a chance to try it out until today!! IT was a real handful. Control was very "iffy" and I considered myself fortunate to get it down on one piece.

Any ideas would be welcomed! I think it is balanced OK as per the instructions although I may try to put a little extra weight up front. Magnum 40 engine with an 11 x 5 prop. Due to the heavier aluminum channel, it is a little heavier than "stock" . In addition to messing with the center of gravity, I think I'll try some "expo" on the ailerons. Pitch stability was poor and ailerons were too effective! The fact that my knees were knocking probably didn't help. If I can get it dialed in before wrecking it, it will be an absolute blast.

Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 4:46:55 AM   
Ross Kean



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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 5:09:47 AM   
CraigA


 

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Oh Canada! Nice job Ross. Not sure what you mean by controls are "iffy". I have one with as much throw as I can possibly get and it is very stable and not over responsive. The only bad trait is they do not like to fly fast....nor glide...otherwise they excel in slow, high alpha flight, and hovering. They are also not overly sensative to a narrow CG range. I do not see anything obvious from the pictures. Exactly where does it balance (without fuel)?
Craig

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 5:26:24 AM   
Ross Kean



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Chord is 19". Balance point is 6.5" from the leading edge. Lateral balance is good and there is quite a lot of throw in the ailerons and elevator. Roll rate is maybe two per second and it will just about bite its tail in a loop. I was struggling with it the whole time in the air; very difficult to get properly trimmed. It feels like it might be tail-heavy but I didn't fly long enough to find out for sure. I would rather avoid adding weight since its already a bit heavy. The Rx and battery are already as far forward as I can go. Moving the wing is a possibility but will be a pain in the butt - I would have to cut and dress a new profile.

By the way, the 40 size BB engine seems like lots.

Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 6:04:19 AM   
Tattoo



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OK... I REALLY want to get to the bottom of why some guys love the plane, and some guys are having trouble. First and formost airleron neutral is extreamly critical. secondly, Nose heavy is bad. Third, it is much more tolerant to tail heavy. If you vary the CG...go back from 6" but NEVER forward of the 6" mark. Mayby I am overlooking the biggest thing...this is not a hammer the throttle and fly like a sport plane plane. The reason Im saying this is because there is a trend that I am starting to notice...when I read flight reports from the funfly pilots who try the Spa3d, they love it, but I've noticed that the guys who are having trouble may, to the best of my knowledge, not have funfly experience. When you guys fly it, are you going full throttle for take off, and expecting to fly around at full throttle? If so...we may be getting close to why some are having trouble, because this is not a sport plane. Yes I can fly mine at full throttle, but only for short periods of time and I don't push it. Stuff flexes and all kinds of wierd aerodynamics start happening especially in anything other than straight and level at full power. When I fly mine, once airborne, on a normal take off, once the wheels leave the ground, the throttle is backed down to approx half. More than half throttle is never used unless it's for a hover maneuver, vertical climb out, kicking the tail around in short bursts, or feeding power into an already established flat spin. A funfly plane is not made for cruizing fast...it is made to be positioned in the sky for various stunts, which are performed with barndoor throws and precise throttle managment. The plane is designed to crawl in harrier, hover, tumble and flat spin...not haul butt. They will fly around fine conventionally, but anything beyond half throttle is pushing it...which is why in the instructions I mention that comon sense must be used along with the throttle. Ross, your plane is the third plane that I have seen pictures of, that I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why you aren't having a BLAST with. And so far, these "not so good" reports are coming from the Spad forum or Spadworld, however, when I go to the funfly forum, these things are growing in popularity and guys are loving them. Is it possible that the difference between funflying and sportflying may be misunderstood and contributing to higher speed misconceptions and guys having wild rides with these planes? If I'm wrong I apologize, and we must keep looking for why some guys love em and some guys are having trouble.

Oh, and a note about Expo. I don't even own a radio with expo, so I don't have any experience with it, and have never used it on anything. I had to ask Kraut what it even was when it started coming up on the forums.

< Message edited by Tattoo-RCU -- Jul 4 2003 1:12AM >

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 6:28:14 AM   
Ross Kean



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Tattoo (and others)

As I mentioned, I only had a chance for one quick flight but the plane was a handful. I was keeping the throttle down - I realize this is not a plane to be flown fast. I was far more worried about keeping it in the air than trying to set speed records. It took quite a bit of throttle to get it into the air because the grass in the field is quite long but once up there, I was trying to keep it at minimum. The plane is not quite "stock". The wing thickness is a little greater due to the size of the aluminum channel (1"w x 3/4"h, 3/32 wall thickness- perfect for servo fit and NO flex). I glued 2"wide foam blocks in three spots inside the fold on each side to help the wing keep its shape (no coat hanger wire needed and very little flex). The horizontal stab/elevator and the vertical stab/rudder are slightly larger than stock.

I have flown "fun-flys" before and I do not expect them to behave like a sport plane but they should offer fairly precise control at low speed in a variety of attitudes.

I am not blaming this on my flying skills (yet) or on the plane design - just trying to find out what I might do to dial this thing in. I know it will get better as I get used to it but I would like some help in the mechanical/aerodynamic bits.

The ailerons are straight with the top of the wing. I was planning to try reflexing them up a bit since I have found (thanks to Tattoo's advice) that it often makes a big improvement.

Thinking there may also be a problem with flexing of the control rods - may have to stiffen these up (especially on the elevator).

I certainly did not mean to rain on the SPA3D parade! Nor was I being critical of the plane or the building methods - I know lots of people have had an enormous amount of fun with this thing. Just looking for some friendly advice so I can get the most I possibly can out of this plane. I am a long way from giving up and will keep trying as long as the plane lives!


Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 7:07:31 AM   
Tattoo



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I hope you didn't take my reply in a negitive way...I'm just trying to get to the bottom og some of the not good reports. The reason I asked about flying styles is because I also had to go through a learning process...especially with the pbf's. I was a classic case of balls to the walls on my first flight what a ride!!! As for your plane, definately try the slight aileron reflex. On my first PQHOR, that was the difference between a solid airplane and an almost unflyable airplane...the rons were parallel at the fuselage, but drooping at the tips.

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 7:25:15 AM   
CraigA


 

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Ross,
Another question or suggestion...what prop are you using? It will help you slow down (and hover better) if you use a large diameter low pitch prop say in the 4" pitch range.
Craig

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 7:42:33 AM   
Ross Kean



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As I mentioned in the original post, the prop is a 11 x 5 (MAS).

Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 7:52:17 AM   
Flypaper 2



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Ross:
Put the up aileron in asTatoo says, Makes a completely different plane out of it. Mine started out the same as yours, Nearly uncontrollable. Hooked mine up with flaperons, will flatspin with them, not without.

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Gord
Dreamed I was a muffler. Woke up exhausted.

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 8:21:28 AM   
Ross Kean



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The aileron is pretty close to parallel with the rail right now. How much should I try for reflex. As much as 1/4" maybe??

Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 10:53:10 AM   
litho



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Thanks Tattoo for the great designs.

I've been flying a few of your designs and the most fun so far has been the 40 size Qhor. I just finished the SPA3D and have about 5 min. of flying time on it. But I have one question with the CG at 6" and the ailerons parallel to the channel I found that it took alittle down elevator to maintain level flight or verticle flight. Is this normal for the SPA3D or do I need to adjust the ailerons or CG?

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 11:53:50 AM   
FrankC29



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I would start off with about an 1/8" reflex, and go from there. This solved my problems with my Qhor. The ailerons were parallel, and I was having nothing but trouble. Once I set them up a tad, it was great. Hope this solves your problem. BTW, I'm still flying an original Qhor with a .25, and I'm feeling like a dinosaur here! Time to upgrade!


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Frank Costa

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 6:25:24 PM   
Ross Kean



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From: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
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I was originally planning to start with center of gravity but with the above advice from several of you, I'll try the ailerons first (very easy to do).

If there are any questions about configuration or build I can post some more detailed pictures.

I am at least as curious as Tattoo as to why some people are having difficulties and I will be sure to report back once I have tried some stuff. My problems are reported on the basis of a single flight but I wanted to improve the chances of a non-fatal second flight! Depending upon the weather, I'll be trying it again this evening or tomorrow.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Ross

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Canadian SPA3D - 7/4/2003 7:14:50 PM