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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 3/17/2012 9:52 PM   
David J Ruskin


 

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Status: offline 		Guys,
This is interesting. I have a classic Flash with a Jetcat 120 (no Sx or anything), with onboard Multiplex telemetry including GPS. The GPS is set to trap the fastest speed during the flight, and display that on my Tx( but i only look when i land!), so I'm not sure if it is in a straight line or not. The fastest has been 373 kph which is 231 mph, and thats not letting the turbine wind up. So the well over 200 is indeed possible.

David

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 3/17/2012 10:05 PM   
InboundLZ



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ORIGINAL: ruskind

Guys,
This is interesting. I have a classic Flash with a Jetcat 120 (no Sx or anything), with onboard Multiplex telemetry including GPS. The GPS is set to trap the fastest speed during the flight, and display that on my Tx( but i only look when i land!), so I'm not sure if it is in a straight line or not. The fastest has been 373 kph which is 231 mph, and thats not letting the turbine wind up. So the well over 200 is indeed possible.

David


Over 200mph was never in question but 200 (or even 231) is a very long way from 270. There is simply no way a 120 is pushing those speeds and if someone, anyone, has phyiscal proof otherwise I am sure we will all would love to see it.

I think its clear to us who have real world/actual experience with the flash that numbers are being inflated here for whatever reason....

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 3/17/2012 11:19 PM   
readyturn


 

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Status: offline 		Let us just stay with the 200 MPH number that we all love..............

Rick

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/2/2012 8:00 PM   
luv2flyrc



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Status: offline 		Some speed runs on Classic Flash today to compare speeds at 22lbs thrust vs 31lbs. Have been flying the CF with the new Rabbit 100 @ 22lbs of thrust so far this season. Top speed (GPS) has been a consistant 290kph (180mph). Switched out the Rabbit for Cheetah today for some more runs. 351 kph( 218mph) with 31lbs of thrust. Interesting that a thrust increase of almost 50% only nets a speed increase of 40mph!

PS, I'd like to see that 273mph P120sx powered one! I doubt if a 160 would even get you there.

Mike


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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/2/2012 8:11 PM   
KC36330



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ORIGINAL: luv2flyrc

..........I doubt if a 160 would even get you there.



I can attest a 170 dialed up to 40 lbs won't.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/2/2012 8:44 PM   
IFlyEm35



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Status: offline 		This is a result of parasite drag increasing exponentially with speed. Eventually it gets to the point that an increase of just 1 kt of airspeed will double the drag. So a 200 wouldn't be much if any faster than a 140

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/2/2012 11:14 PM   
ddlstang


 

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Status: offline 		Remember weather conditions play a major role. On the test stand we have seen huge losses in thrust. The plane drag coefficeint will alos go up with less than ideal conditions.

The high 200's are very possible in the right conditions with a 140/160 class turbine.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/3/2012 1:27 AM   
KC36330



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ORIGINAL: ddlstang

Remember weather conditions play a major role. On the test stand we have seen huge losses in thrust. The plane drag coefficeint will alos go up with less than ideal conditions.

The high 200's are very possible in the right conditions with a 140/160 class turbine.



while i agree that weather conditions do play a roll on both, they are inverse of one another, denser air provides more thrust, but it also produces more drag so you're gonna have to try some other magic to get those numbers.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/3/2012 1:48 AM   
luv2flyrc



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KC36330


quote:

ORIGINAL: ddlstang

Remember weather conditions play a major role. On the test stand we have seen huge losses in thrust. The plane drag coefficeint will alos go up with less than ideal conditions.

The high 200's are very possible in the right conditions with a 140/160 class turbine.



while i agree that weather conditions do play a roll on both, they are inverse of one another, denser air provides more thrust, but it also produces more drag so you're gonna have to try some other magic to get those numbers.


Yes, from what I've experienced, I don't think shoe horning at P-200 in a Flash would get you up in the high 200mph's. It seems to peak in the 220/ 230 range and any more would require a massive increase in thrust for minimal airspeed gain.

MIke



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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/3/2012 7:09 AM   
indubitably


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InboundLZ


quote:

ORIGINAL: ruskind

Guys,
This is interesting. I have a classic Flash with a Jetcat 120 (no Sx or anything), with onboard Multiplex telemetry including GPS. The GPS is set to trap the fastest speed during the flight, and display that on my Tx( but i only look when i land!), so I'm not sure if it is in a straight line or not. The fastest has been 373 kph which is 231 mph, and thats not letting the turbine wind up. So the well over 200 is indeed possible.

David


Over 200mph was never in question but 200 (or even 231) is a very long way from 270. There is simply no way a 120 is pushing those speeds and if someone, anyone, has phyiscal proof otherwise I am sure we will all would love to see it.

I think its clear to us who have real world/actual experience with the flash that numbers are being inflated here for whatever reason....


David,
Im sure you are convinced of your words, and its not my place to give my impression of why you question these speeds. The fact is that there is an imposed limit to the speeds flown. I believe it is important to know how fast these plains can fly, and not to flaunt what we did or do. Rather than look amazed later when you become convinced of the reality. How can i keep you from appearing unknowing on this matter. Would you like me to email a radar pic, or re do the scenario with video?? I hope you can respect peoples integrity and come up with evidense that it cannot happen. As you see others have validated some of the higher speeds, at some risk to our exposure.
Im sure these planes will come apart from flutter at some speed. And it may be close to 300. Im not sure how many want to push this inevitable point of failure. The plane flew serene and well at the 273 mph, and i took a picture of the pilot holding the radar gun with the number on it. I can message it to you on your smart phone if you need it.
John

By the way the UFlash is much slicker than the classic. You can see it on downwind. Cut the throttle to zero across from you and you can coast to base leg, put in half flaps, and then full flaps 100 feet from the threshold. No power from mid downwind to touchdown. The Classic, would require power at some point before landing, if you cut throttle across from where you stand at mid downwind. If you are speaking of the Classic, then i can reconcile your being unaware of the potential for the UFlash.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/3/2012 8:42 AM   
InboundLZ



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Status: offline 		I have as much experience with the classic and ultra flash as anyone, I do not need any lessons on what it can do. Frankly I could care less how fast you think you are going, or how fast you are actually going. Matters not to me, I know what I know and you will not convince me (and many others I might add) otherwise. If I remember correctly you are claiming 273 mph (or something close to that) on a P120 (I am not going to read back) and I said BS and I stand on it being BS. Again, I have been in the game for some time and I am a very high time flash pilot, I know Exactly how much push my 160 puts out in its de-rated condition as measured on expensive load cell test equipment, and I know exactly the top speed of my model. She hauls the mail but, and I am saying it for the absolute last time, no way is it even close to 273mph. I have been on several radar guns, some of which were attached to police bikes....your numbers just don't pan out. Let's just agree to disagree. I just hope someone don't get hurt and then digs up this thread, gonna be hard to explain some of the claims made here.

Blue skys and clam winds.....

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 6:25 AM   
indubitably


 

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Status: offline 		The light at the end of the tunnel???? Just hope its not a train

< Message edited by indubitably -- 7/4/2012 3:29 PM >

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 6:34 AM   
InboundLZ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: indubitably

Quote from David Botita

''I have as much experience with the classic and ultra flash as anyone, I do not need any lessons on what it can do. Frankly I could care less how fast you think you are going, or how fast you are actually going. Matters not to me, I know what I know and you will not convince me (and many others I might add) otherwise. If I remember correctly you are claiming 273 mph (or something close to that) on a P120 (I am not going to read back) and I said BS and I stand on it being BS. Again, I have been in the game for some time and I am a very high time flash pilot, I know Exactly how much push my 160 puts out in its de-rated condition as measured on expensive load cell test equipment, and I know exactly the top speed of my model. She hauls the mail but, and I am saying it for the absolute last time, no way is it even close to 273mph. I have been on several radar guns, some of which were attached to police bikes....your numbers just don't pan out. Let's just agree to disagree. I just hope someone don't get hurt and then digs up this thread, gonna be hard to explain some of the claims made here. ''


David, here we go again, and why do i bother?

Well you have made a statement, and i will hold back further comments about your familiarity with the UFlash and with radar. I could suggest you look up cosign error, which might help, and suggest ways to get a good bead on the plane and remain safe, but i have a feeling you will not be too energetic about receiving such input. Sorry to see you take on your attitude, it will be harder for you to acknowledge the truth, now that you have set your opinion so publicly. And the other point is that the engine was A JETCAT P120 SX, maybe you should try one of these - they are truly AWSOME!!!!.



It's all good, you see it one way, I see it the other...no worries....just a couple of jet heads doing our thing....who knows, someday we can run them together and pull some hill climbs!

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 6:46 AM   
indubitably


 

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Status: offline 		So how do you take a picture off this site?

Will try the delete.....

< Message edited by indubitably -- 7/4/2012 3:25 PM >

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 6:51 AM   
InboundLZ



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Status: offline 		Interesting....now pull it quick!

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 7:36 AM   
DrV



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Status: offline 		HI guys,

A bit off topic of what is currently being discussed.

I recently purchased a CF with a P160 and after few landings, I have decided to change the main original struts and wheels to a DW Pro-Links and 3.25" Intairco wheels. This is a long thread and I have done a search regarding wheels coming off during take-off but the best I found was to keep the speeds below 80mph. Someone also has mentioned using Zap-A-Dap-A-Goo to glue the wheels on the rims.

Are there any other options/suggestions?

Thanks



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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 10:39 AM   
aquaskiman



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ORIGINAL: DrV

HI guys,

A bit off topic of what is currently being discussed.

I recently purchased a CF with a P160 and after few landings, I have decided to change the main original struts and wheels to a DW Pro-Links and 3.25'' Intairco wheels. This is a long thread and I have done a search regarding wheels coming off during take-off but the best I found was to keep the speeds below 80mph. Someone also has mentioned using Zap-A-Dap-A-Goo to glue the wheels on the rims.

Are there any other options/suggestions?

Thanks





That is what I do. Never had one come off. Over 180 flights on CF

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/4/2012 10:43 AM   
DrV



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quote:

ORIGINAL: aquaskiman


quote:

ORIGINAL: DrV

HI guys,

A bit off topic of what is currently being discussed.

I recently purchased a CF with a P160 and after few landings, I have decided to change the main original struts and wheels to a DW Pro-Links and 3.25'' Intairco wheels. This is a long thread and I have done a search regarding wheels coming off during take-off but the best I found was to keep the speeds below 80mph. Someone also has mentioned using Zap-A-Dap-A-Goo to glue the wheels on the rims.

Are there any other options/suggestions?

Thanks





That is what I do. Never had one come off. Over 180 flights on CF


Thanks George,

Are you referring to keep the take-off roll under 80mph or using the glue?

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 2:36 AM   
DrYankum


 

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Status: offline 		I've just spent a few days going through this entire thread to learn as much as i can about the setup of the Flash. Without naming names, I noticed that at least two individuals described setting up their differential on the ailerons with more DOWN than UP. One individual had 5/8" up and 3/4" down, while another had 20mm up and 22 mm down. I'm wondering whether this is a typo error or indeed the proper setup. Having flown pattern and IMAC for a number of years, I never had a set up with more down than up. More up aileron is needed to compensate for the greater induced drag of the lower aileron. At any rate, I getting ready to maiden my classic Flash with a P-120 sx in the next few weeks. I got my waver last year on a Tornado with a K-80 in it. Looking forward to flying the Flash

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:07 AM   
InboundLZ



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ORIGINAL: DrYankum

I've just spent a few days going through this entire thread to learn as much as i can about the setup of the Flash. Without naming names, I noticed that at least two individuals described setting up their differential on the ailerons with more DOWN than UP. One individual had 5/8'' up and 3/4'' down, while another had 20mm up and 22 mm down. I'm wondering whether this is a typo error or indeed the proper setup. Having flown pattern and IMAC for a number of years, I never had a set up with more down than up. More up aileron is needed to compensate for the greater induced drag of the lower aileron. At any rate, I getting ready to maiden my classic Flash with a P-120 sx in the next few weeks. I got my waver last year on a Tornado with a K-80 in it. Looking forward to flying the Flash


Interesting that you brought this up...I too have always set them up with more UP than DOWN...I set my flash up this way too...my rolls sucked. Then I was talking to one of the IMAC guys at my field about it. He tells me you need more DOWN than UP because the aileron is hinged on the TOP of the aileron. So, says I, "I'll give it a try!"...Fixed my roll issues instantly, knife edge was also improved. So no, it was not an error you read, the savvy guys set theirs up this way!

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:18 AM   
KC36330



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Status: offline 		the live hinging requires more down then up because the aileron gets shorter as it's deflected downward.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:18 AM   
ddlstang


 

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Status: offline 		That is correct, because of the TOP hinging it is more effective UP so you need more down.

A test is to put the plane going away from at 45 deg and 45deg up line and roll, if the plane goes right or left then you need to adjust the aileron differential. You can get it to where it is really nice.

This works on any plane, even center hinged planes at times need ail. differential to get really nice rolls.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:23 AM   
smitty1001



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Status: offline 		While we're tweaking... How about a perceived "reverse" roll coupling in KE?

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:27 AM   
DrYankum


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info guys...makes sense. That's why I spent the time reading the thread. I've been in this game a long time, but I try to learn all the time. It's also why my next step was into jets. Lots of new stuff to learn as well as to put knowledge and experience into something new.

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RE: C-ARF Flash Build Thread for All Flash's being buil... - 7/6/2012 3:34 AM   
DrV



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Guys, Any input on this would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance.



quote:

ORIGINAL: DrV

HI guys,

A bit off topic of what is currently being discussed.

I recently purchased a CF with a P160 and after few landings, I have decided to change the main original struts and wheels to a DW Pro-Links and 3.25'' Intairco wheels. This is a long thread and I have done a search regarding wheels coming off during take-off but the best I found was to keep the speeds below 80mph. Someone also has mentioned using Zap-A-Dap-A-Goo to glue the wheels on the rims.

Are there any other options/suggestions?

Thanks





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