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AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 3:42 AM   
formula_51


 

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From: covina, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hello everyone,
I am about to start building my first Akromaster C/l plane kit and was wondering if anyone here has any helpful tips that can make my buildup go smooth.
~thanks in advance~


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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 4:11 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yes, visit the Stuka Stunt forums and Stunthanger .com and do a search for Akromaster and you will learn all there is to know....

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 4:17 AM   
formula_51


 

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Status: offline 		thanks scott17



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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 12:07 PM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		Gee Scott, with help like that, this forum won't ever need much space, will it.

Anybody want to offer help here? Or is RCU wasting their time with this forum?

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 6:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hey, the guy asked a question and needed some info, so I gave him the BEST answer I knew. There are literally volumes of info on this exact subject at those sites and I did not have the time or inclination to write them all here. So what should we do, not give the guy help because it exists on another stunt specific forum so we please you, or should we help the guy out if he needs it? These forums are great and I have gotten and given much info here, but to be honest, the best and most control line flyers frequent those 2 forums and a control line hopeful could learn anything and everything they ever wondered about there. Lets not let politics stand in the way of a guy getting some good info.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 8:40 PM   
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Status: offline 		I've built a few SIG Akro's, great little models. My setup, OS.15FP, uniflow tank, 50' lines, MA 8x5 prop. I use 10% nitro, 20% castor fuel. A small amount of weight needed on the tail to correct the C.G. You'll find the build very easy, just follow the instructions. ....John

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/19/2009 11:14 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: scott17

Hey, the guy asked a question and needed some info, so I gave him the BEST answer I knew. There are literally volumes of info on this exact subject at those sites and I did not have the time or inclination to write them all here. So what should we do, not give the guy help because it exists on another stunt specific forum so we please you, or should we help the guy out if he needs it? These forums are great and I have gotten and given much info here, but to be honest, the best and most control line flyers frequent those 2 forums and a control line hopeful could learn anything and everything they ever wondered about there. Lets not let politics stand in the way of a guy getting some good info.


No problem. You did what you had time and inclination to do. And it's a good link.

On the other hand, my explaining the situation that existed after you answer was to keep the help coming. And that's what I do, try to pump up the value of this place.

It's got nothing to do with politics. It's all about making this place a good one to come for information.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/20/2009 2:14 AM   
gcb



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Status: offline 		I am one of the guys who responded "over there". Some of us have chosen to extend the wingspan by not clipping the ends of the LE and TE pieces. If you do this you will need to make some modifications to the center section, four additional ribs, and new fixed flap pieces.

The rest of mine is box stock. Here is a comparison. The lower one is standard powered by a slant plug Fox .15, the upper one has extended wings and is powered by a Thunder Tigre .10 CL.

George



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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/20/2009 2:36 AM   
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Status: offline 		The Sig Akromaster was my choice to use to learn the AMA stunt pattern back when the beginner class was still required to fly the entire schedule of maneuvers. It was powered by a Fox 15 and still managed to complete everything including the hourglass and clover. The one modification I made was to add working flaps. I'm sure this helped improve it's ability to get thru the pattern. With a modern OS 15, it should do remarkably well. Over the years my kids and I have built maybe a half dozen or so of these and have not had a bad one in the group. All but one has been crashed into nonexistence or passed on to other flyers.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/20/2009 3:21 AM   
da Rock



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Status: offline 		Man, that wing extension looks like a great idea. Flaps sounds even better. Together would make a really decent airplane.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/20/2009 3:04 PM   
gcb



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quote:

ORIGINAL: da Rock

Man, that wing extension looks like a great idea. Flaps sounds even better. Together would make a really decent airplane.


Actually, box stock it's a decent airplane.

George

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/21/2009 5:44 AM   
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From: covina, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hello everyone
 I would like to thank you all first for helping me out, its much appreciated!
Well i started the build with the wing it's completed on the most part ( im just waiting for the lead-out lines from sig). my new Fox .15S  just arrived today via fed-ex so maybe by next week i'll get it all done .it does seem like a easy build
             my goal is to learn the AMA pattern. although i know i need air time / practice to get thier it shouldn't be to hard for me as i have many many hours of smaller trainer 12/a c/l. i'm still tring to imagine how the heck im going to pull a figure eight and have enough time to level it out.huh i cant wait.

i'm building this "box stock" but can anyone post a pic and or how to hookup working flaps? and would having working flap with a box stock benefit in anyway?
thanks again everyone!




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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/21/2009 6:12 AM   
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Status: offline 		The Akro has about the same wing area as my Midwest ME-109 with fixed flaps. I managed everything but the full overhead stuff and I never did that with any plane because I'd just lose my own orientation. The best trick is to keep the wind at your back (sorta' off your left shoulder) as you enter the maneuver to keep the lines tight on the downwind side of the circle.
One thing about working flaps: some folks think that if a little flap defection is good, more is better. The truth is opposite. too much flap deflection can actually adversely affect the pitch moment of the plane. I went the "too much route" on my first flapped plane and the darn thing kept nosing into the ground when I pulled "up" elevator to take off. An old timer suggested even less deflection than the plans called for and it pulled corners on rails after.
In real life, fighter pilots used to pull in a touch of flap to keep the nose deflected down to get a better strafe angle for a pass while holding the same altitude AGL
BTW, do us all a favor and put a nice finish on that gem and get us some good pics "before" the first flight!

P.S. Any comments to my comments are certainly appreciated, I've been away a long time and have a bunch of re-learning to do m'self.


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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/21/2009 9:19 PM   
gcb



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Status: offline 		formula 51,

How much building/flying experience do you have?

The reason I ask is that if you are new to flying I would suggest you build the plane without the complication of flaps, and put a more "basic" finish on it because you ARE going to crash it. Be more concerned about building it true and accurate, and how to get the best run with your engine.

OF course if you already know the basics, go for it.

Good luck either way.

George

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/21/2009 10:26 PM   
BtnFlyGuy



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Status: offline 		What George said...

Before you cover the wing, make absolutely sure the control system is free and clear with not even the slightest "hitch". If you have any doubt about the strength of the bellcrank mounting it probably needs a tad more epoxy. Double check the bellcrank assembly itself. I actually forgot to tighten the nut once...I hate re-kitting my planes the hard way.
Keep the overall finish light. If you are using dope, silver, yellow and white are the most problematic colors for weight and coverage. The blues are good. Pick up some peel and stick fuel-proof decals to spiffy it up. Put the engine on some kind of stand and run more than a couple of tanks of fuel through it to get used to it's personality. Like kids, those noisy li'l buggers all have 'em.


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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/22/2009 4:29 AM   
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Status: offline 		Okay, this may come as an ignorant question....I've got one of these kits, and the instructions provided have twice told me to reference the included plans. The fact is, there were no plans in this box brand new from Sig. I've since built the aircraft, straight and true, but do I need to call them so I can retrieve a set or were they just never included in the first place and the instructions assume that everyone knows how to essentially build without a set of plans?

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/22/2009 8:28 AM   
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Status: offline 		I've built a few of these models, none had a proper plan included in the kit, just the instruction sheet. They all turned out to be good fliers though.........John

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/22/2009 11:52 AM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: muzzlemaggot

Okay, this may come as an ignorant question....I've got one of these kits, and the instructions provided have twice told me to reference the included plans. The fact is, there were no plans in this box brand new from Sig. I've since built the aircraft, straight and true, but do I need to call them so I can retrieve a set or were they just never included in the first place and the instructions assume that everyone knows how to essentially build without a set of plans?



Plans help for structures, especially for pieced structures with shapes you have to get right. And truth is, profile airplanes are so simple about the only thing plans would help with would be spacing the wing ribs. If the wing's LE and TE have rib positions notched or marked, then help really isn't needed.

For a profile plane with sheet parts, plans really don't do much for you.

However, Sig really would have looked smarter if they had written the instructions without reference to plans they didn't include. Or better yet, include the plans if their instructions mention them.



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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/22/2009 1:13 PM   
build light



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quote:

Quote by muzzlemaggot:
" The fact is, there were no plans in this box brand new from Sig. I've since built the aircraft, straight and true,"

As da Rock points out, there is no need to build over thw "plan" like we did our stick and tissue models for this plane has so few parts and these are alrezdy shaped for you , mostly by die cutting.
So many guys come back looking for "plans" for this or that kit that is no longer in production only to find that there was no real plan for the model they are looking for.

quote:

Quote by da Rock:
"truth is, profile airplanes are so simple about the only thing plans would help with would be spacing the wing ribs. If the wing's LE and TE have rib positions notched or marked, then help really isn't needed.

For a profile plane with sheet parts, plans really don't do much for you.


This is so true unless... you want to create another from scratch later on. For a plane currently in production like the Akromaster, its no problem. just get another kit. They are reasonably priced. I don't think you could scratch this one for less than Sig sells it for considering all the extras they stuff in the box.
However you might want to make full size templates of the parts not shown full size on the "plan" So that you might make a duplicate part for repair in case the plane has a mishap. Often this is preferred over a patch job.

For those older kits this might be a more desireable thing to do if they are not in production. Even if the company is still up and running.
An example of this is the Dumas Little Tomahawk. The Little Tomahawk was formerly made be Veco. Today Dumas no longer kits the Little Tomahawk and cannot even supply a plan or instruction sheet for it.

Something to think about...

Robert



edited to show quotes in boxes


< Message edited by da Rock -- 11/22/2009 3:36 PM >


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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/22/2009 4:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		I agree, really no need for an actual set of plans...I was just curious if there were supposed to be any, because two of the die-cut balsa sheets were not in the box so it had me really wondering what else wasn't in the box too. Sig has since rectified this issue and sent out the replacements. In the meantime, I have in fact made templates of all parts in case of mishap or future builds. Thanks for all the replies.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/23/2009 12:03 AM   
gcb



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Status: offline 		Muzzlemaggot and I have been corresponding in the background about mufflers for the Fox .15X.

The Fox .15X shown on the Lower plane in the pic I posted awhile back. That particular muffler is a flow-thru type held by screws above and below the exhaust stack.

Here are a couple more of the standard Fox type. These are the same except the earlier one is held by screws above and below the stack and the newer one can be held by the upper and lower screws OR the the ears on the last iteration of Fox .15X that I have. All three mufflers were Fox and came in a plastic bag with the Fox logo. The one with ears came with both screw sizes so it could be mounted either way. It appeared to be exactly the same as the other one except additional metal had been added.

Also shown are three iterations of Fox .15X. One has no muffler provisions, one has over and under the exhaust stack, and the third shows over/under as well as the ears.

Here's the wrinkle...Fox keeps telling Muzzlemaggot that they never made mufflers for the .15X. My GUESS is that those folks at Fox are thinking about the Steelfin .15.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/23/2009 2:02 AM   
dennis



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Status: offline 		Yes they did make mufflers for the 15X. Granted they didn't maks a whole lot of them judging by how few I've seen in 50 years of the little critters. But I do have about 3 of the things and really they aren't worth the weight of the things to use them. Certainly not on your Akromaster 15.
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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/23/2009 3:58 AM   
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Status: offline 		I like the mufflers on the Fox 15, as it gives your hand a firm gripping area for a better hurl! Actually a much more user friendly engine for the Akromaster is an OS, Magnum, or Thunder Tiger .10 , as these have plenty of power, light weight, use common fuels(and not much of it!), and fly a light Akromaster just fine. I actually have a Supertiger X-11 on mine right now and it has PLENTY of power, but they are somewhat hard to come by.

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/23/2009 1:49 PM   
gcb



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quote:

ORIGINAL: scott17

I like the mufflers on the Fox 15, as it gives your hand a firm gripping area for a better hurl! Actually a much more user friendly engine for the Akromaster is an OS, Magnum, or Thunder Tiger .10 , as these have plenty of power, light weight, use common fuels(and not much of it!), and fly a light Akromaster just fine. I actually have a Supertiger X-11 on mine right now and it has PLENTY of power, but they are somewhat hard to come by.


Scott,

I have the OS and TT in .10, .15, and .25 and they all work fine. In fact one of my TT .10's is in the other Akromaster shown previously. I have a Magnum .15 but it has not yet been in a plane.

I also have Fox .15's including original (bought new when they came out) "steelfin" Rockets, the .15X's shown plus a couple more of the middle ones, the schnuerle in both plain and BB in both RC and CL and fortunately not a bad runner in the bunch. I DO take the time to run engines on the bench, break them in, and get used to their particular characteristics...they don't all run the same.

BTW, I use the same fuel in them all. The only Fox that needs excessive oil is the .35 stunt AFAIK.

George

PS> I would never hurl an engine.

< Message edited by gcb -- 11/23/2009 2:16 PM >

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RE: AkroMaster CL-20 - 11/23/2009 3:52 PM   
049flyer


 

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Status: offline 		Keep the weight of the plane below 1 lb if you can, it will stunt better. The Fox 15x is very light weight, it weighs the same as many .09 engines and is much more powerful than the .09. Compared to a modern .15 it is not very powerful but when you compare it to engines of the same weight it really shines! Even the old Fox steel fin works well on this plane. I use a 7x5 prop on mine with a Fox steel fin .15 and 10% nitro fuel with 29% castor.

I shortened the nose about 3/4 inch on mine to get it to balance without adding weight.

A great flying plane to learn the pattern! Fly it on 45 to 50 foot .012 lines.

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