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Neu motor question - 11/19/2009 5:49 AM   
gaRCfield



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From: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: offline 		I found this motor and need help understanding some stuff:

Model RPM/Volt Weight (oz) Length (in) Rm (Ohms) Io@10v Max RPM Continuous Watts Surge Watts Max Voltage Apps Price
1515/2Y 1,100 12.00/12.7 2.7 0.019 1.1 60K 1,250 watts 2,500 watts 54 volts 120 F3A $249
Air-geared

Is this an outrunner? Is it geared? What does the Y or D mean? Seems like really high kV and max RPM so I'm assuming it has to be geared, but maybe it's internally geared?
Neu 1500 motors

I am under the impression that these motors are pretty good, but don't really know... I'm trying to compare it to a Scorpion 4035-250.

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Wind-S 110/Scorpion 4035; 69" Yak/OS 120AX; Venus 40/OS 55AX; Airtronics SD-10G

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/19/2009 12:40 PM   
Andrewg


 

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From: Lemon Tree PassageNSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Neu are the most efficient model motors available (with a few exceptions in particular applications). They have very high levels of torque for the input amps. They have a very broad range of operation over which they operate at very high efficiency near or 90%+. This means they can be run at very low power levels with good power and at very high amp levels with relatively little heating. Neus also run to very high rpms safely and without heating.

My analysis of Neu motors in a given power system indicates that generally if the Neu system costs say 20% more it delivers about 20% more. That might be more torque more runtime and similar power or might mean it is capable of operating at a 20+% higher power level throughout a run.. They seem to be a case of you get what you pay for.

Scorpion is an inexpensive motor and also a case of getting what you pay for. They have very high temp components because they either run in low power (relative to a similar Neu) within a specific amp range or they run hot. Push them they run very hot. They reach a peak efficiency of approx 86%. The peak is one thing how fast the efficiency falls either side of the peak is another. Scorpions are a sport motor to the Neus high end high performance motor.

The two specific motors you mention are barely comparable unless the Neu has a 4:1 gearbox attached to it

The Neu has a KV of 1100 rpm per volt and the Scorpion 250 rpm/v. This suggest the volts are which you would run each will differ by a factor of four times to achieve the same output rpm. The Neu is suited to pricing higher power on low voltage. The Scorpion to similar power but on four times the number of cells. The Neu has an rpm ceiling of 60,000 rpm so a 4:1 gearbox would produce a similar output rpm for each on the same volts, The Neu would be capable of producing much higher peak power, and run approximately 7% more efficiently at peak efficiently but at lower, useable amp levels - say 20 amps approx 15% more efficiently. With a gearbox the Neu would produce more torque - several percent at the same amp draw, but it can draw much higher amps so would produce far more torque

If you are looking for a motor which will run in the same apps and same voltage as the Scorpion try a Neu 1917/2.5Y 231 rpm/v.



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RE: Neu motor question - 11/19/2009 10:39 PM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		Ok so I'm really considering a Neu motor.

One question I have is whether that motor (rated at 2100/4100 watts) will draw too much current from a 20C, 5000mah battery, or can I just prop it to stay under 70A?

Another question is if I need the 240kV or can/should I go with 300? I'm running 10S.

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Wind-S 110/Scorpion 4035; 69" Yak/OS 120AX; Venus 40/OS 55AX; Airtronics SD-10G

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/20/2009 12:52 AM   
1bwana1


 

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Status: offline 		In my opinion Neu motors are the best electric motors one can put in a Pattern plane.  Not just because they are so efficient, and well made, but because of the way they work.  I find the throttle on Neu inrunner, geared motors to be smoother, and more progressive than any outrunner I have ever tried.  This means that the application of throttle will upset the plane less.  After having flown Neu motors for a few years now, I find the outrunners feel "jumpy" to me.

Neu has recently released a motor specifically for F3A.  It is the result of a long development and testing program.  APC has even released a prop optimized for this setup.  If you are thinking of getting a Neu, why wouldn't you just get the F3A motor?  The F3A motor is in the 15XX series.  The 19XX series would be way over kill.  A friend of mine had a 19XX motor that he put in his Valiant, he switched to the F3A motor last week, and is much happier with it.

Just so you know, mounting a Neu inrunner will require a significant amount of work on the Wind 110 compared to mounting an outrunner.  But you will have a motor perfect for World Class Competition should you ever decide to upgrade to a full 2 meter plane.

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/20/2009 1:01 AM   
Jim Schwagle



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Status: offline 		Neumotors has a calculator that will allow you to see the amp draw, etc. on different motors and battery setups.

You can find it here....

http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/neumotorscalc.asp

The calculator shows that a 1515/2Y, geared at 4/1, on 10 cells and a Phoenix 85 controller draws just over 70 amps, has 2478 Watts in and 2445 Watts out, on an APC 16-10 for 94% efficiency. The prop is turning almost 9300 RPM. You need to make some guesses for some of the values, but the calculator is pretty good at letting you know what works and what doesn't.

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/20/2009 2:39 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		Seems like Neu makes a great product. I wish I wasn't having such a tough time finding the right Neu motor.

The calculator didn't have the info for the 1917 motor (and neither does the website!). The 1917 is a direct fit into the Wind. It is an in-runner with a ton of torque so it can directly connected to the prop. Customer support said this is pretty standard, most people don't gear this engine. Unfortunately he didn't know much about application.

All of the 19 series motors will "fit" but the 1917 will go as far as to use the rear motor support in the Wind as well. A geared in-runner (even more so with the F3A) will require real surgery to the plane which I don't really want to do, and I'm not prepared to spend over $500 on a motor and gear set (as much as I'd love to have one of those motors).

I don't know if it makes sense to use the 1917 though (rated for up to 145volts!) - if I'm only running 10S, wouldn't the right motor be the 1912 (rated at 125 volts)? Do I gain or lose anything with a bigger motor (and thus greater internal resistance?)

I'm not used to the particular specs that they provide so I don't know how to compare to what I've been looking at (Scorpion 4035-250).

Thank you so much for your help!

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Wind-S 110/Scorpion 4035; 69" Yak/OS 120AX; Venus 40/OS 55AX; Airtronics SD-10G

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/20/2009 4:14 PM   
DaveL322


 

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Status: offline 		Joe,

Y and D refer to different patterns for the windings in the motor.

The 15xx series is what most have used for pattern, and the 6.7:1 gearbox is the only option at the power levels we run (with consideration for the aerobatic loads). The 1513 F3A gearbox is a lightened version of the 8 oz P42 6.7:1 on the website.

I agree with the other opinions posted in this thread that the 1513 F3A has very good torque and response across the full range of throttle.

The 19 series is substantially different (larger diameter, more torque at lower RPM for direct drive application) than all other series, making it harder to do direct comparisons. The voltage limits on the 19 series is not much more than an indication of how much voltage can be applied without exceeding the max rated RPM of 35,000 - which is not meaningful for our application, but moreso with helis which are geared (and I suspect the primary market for the 19 series). 1917 240 KV would be the best guess for the RPM range we run in pattern, but who knows how big the prop would be for 10S and 70-80 amps static. I think a lot of people would like to see some data on the 1917 and 1920 with props suitable for pattern and aerobatics.

Regards,

Dave

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/21/2009 8:02 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		Does a motor like the 1917 or 1915 need to be supported at the front and rear, or is just the front OK?

Have to think about the idea of being a guinea pig with a $250 motor on my first electric plane but it sounds like it is definitely worth some consideration.

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Wind-S 110/Scorpion 4035; 69" Yak/OS 120AX; Venus 40/OS 55AX; Airtronics SD-10G

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/21/2009 4:28 PM   
DaveL322


 

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Status: offline 		I believe the 19 series are designed to be mounted on one end only. I would suggest doing a firewall mount with an Xmount (accesory available from Neu).

Regards,

Dave

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RE: Neu motor question - 11/24/2009 5:40 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		Thanks Dave!

I am hoping to get some more data on the 19 series - wondering how the 1912 or 1915 would do. Since the battery voltage and amperage are limited by functions of the battery, I figured it would make sense to use the smallest motor that would deliver a given amount of power. The 1912 would save a few ounces in the nose and allow for more battery weight.

I'm going to see if I can find some more data on these motors. Continuous/Max amperage is one thing, guess I need to do a little more research.

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Wind-S 110/Scorpion 4035; 69" Yak/OS 120AX; Venus 40/OS 55AX; Airtronics SD-10G

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