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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/4/2011 10:02 PM   
SHANEC



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Status: offline 		I think it was FLAK! Nice job! AMEN!!!!!

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/5/2011 1:32 AM   
kram



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Status: offline 		The excitement just never ends with the Z-61's, does it Sam?

Congratulations on getting it down in one piece. That takes a lot of skill and a little luck.

After my experience with Z-61 engine-out, I thought I was pretty cool posing and indicating with one finger how many engines were running. My "friends" insist I was just indicating how many new pair of underwear I needed.

I would be interested in your account of the control inputs you used to get 'er "around and down."

My experience agrees strongly with your impression that the extra power was very helpful.

I still haven't identified the 12X radio anomaly that has one of my throttles running 2,000 rpm faster than the other on landing in Owatonna last month. It must have something to do with the new flap/elevator mix for landing I programmed. I may have to go back to the old-fashioned Y-harness hook-up

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/5/2011 10:41 AM   
samparfitt


 

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I have no idea what 'stick' inputs that I used: I just tried to keep her level during the last lap.
I'm guessing that left rudder and aileron were used to keep her level and straight.

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/5/2011 2:06 PM   
ducky22


 

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Status: offline 		Perhaps subconsciously you like the excitement of landing without an engine or gear fully deployed.


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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/12/2011 7:13 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Status: offline 		Ducky22
I have to admit that after the excitement (fear) of flying on only one engine and gear problems, one does feel good about handling the situation in a manner that results in 'not having to bend over more than once' to pick up your plane!
I see why I have only seen two Ziroli P-61's in my 'road trips' as they are incredibly complex and 'eat up a lot of PM' but they do give ya' an 'adrenalin rush'.

==========
more PM


Well, after the 'engine out' landing, I figure that I'd better check the structure and landing gear.
I found a machine screw laying on the trailer floor under the P-61 and knew that can't be good.
It was for the back support rod of the nose gear.
The gear and all supporting wood around the gear are 'crack free': a tribute to the strong robart gear as a 50 lb plane bouncing up a foot in the air on a fast landing with one engine out has to put a lot of pressure on all that metal!
I'm glad that I extended that aircraft ply back behind the end of the main gear doors as there are no cracks on the booms, either; considering the booms had to also take a lot of stress on that last landing (considering there's not a lot of surface area between the wing fitting into the top of the boom and the large gear door opening).
The JB weld on the main oleo collars are also working well as the tires are still parallel to each other.

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/12/2011 9:20 PM   
butlern


 

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"The JB weld on the main oleo collars are also working well as the tires are still parallel to each other."

Sam! I you are the king of JB Weld!

Thanks again for the gear I got from you in Muncie... They're going to work great, but I will say that I did have to clean out some JB Weld from a few places!

I was grinning ear-to-ear when I saw those glops of goo in your old (my new) retracts!

Best regards,

Noah




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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 5/17/2012 3:49 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Did the usual stuff: removed cowls and tightened all bolts, removed the top hatch to check out my 'spaghetti' of wires and double receivers, checked bolts on gear, cycled them and brakes and checked all hinges and bolts holding all seven parts of the plane together. Fuel line doesn't need replacing.
Four 2700 ma battery packs charged.
Adjusted left engine idle down to match the right engine. RPM's 2100/6300.

Engine test video:
I love the rumble sound of twin G-62's.
(I thought the camera was off on the 2nd runup as it's 'off center').
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr02GPjIg44&feature=youtu.be

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/10/2012 2:15 PM   
ducky22


 

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Status: offline 		I was looking through your build log again looking for its weight and the only mention I saw was about using steel for pushing a 50lbs plane.  I am just finishing mine up and the preliminary weight is 47lbs without gear doors or the pneumatic cylinders for them.  This is 10% more weight than Ziroli estimated on his site.

What is the weight of your P-61?


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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/10/2012 2:35 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Status: offline 		Dave,
I never weigh my planes (can't take the weight off, anyway) but it probably weighs around 50 lbs.
Manufacturer weights are always too light: no cockpit detail, probably non-functioning doors, no strengthening of the retract area, etc. In my opinion, heavy warbirds fly more realistically.
This summer has been brutal, heat wise. I've only flew the P-61 once this year, as most of the meets had temps in the 90's (plus I need a long runway) and it was work just getting two fighters out to fly, let alone hassling with twins.

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 9/10/2012 2:55 PM   
ducky22


 

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Status: offline 		Mine is electric, it should be finished in the next couple of weeks and I plan on maidening it at old small municipal airport (1:1 scale runway ).

You have had your hands full with your other builds.  Thanks for the reply Sam.


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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/6/2012 10:20 AM   
Spectre(NL)


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Sam,

I am nearly finishing my dbalsa cockpit kit on my p61, and i was wondering where did you find those nice pilots in you beautifull bird.

Greetz, Sander Jansen

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/6/2012 7:24 PM   
hellcat56



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Status: online 		duckky
did you fly your plane
how about some photos


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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/7/2012 4:17 AM   
kram



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Status: offline 		I agree with Sam's general philosophy about weighing warbirds, but my curiosity usually gets the best of me.

Besides, my "3-scale CG" system by definition gives me a total weight.

My black Ziroli-61 weighed about 48 lbs before my last rehab effort. The green one weighs about 4 lbs less because it is powered by G-38's.

So, Sam, when you say you have only seen two flying Ziroli P-61's during your travels though the Midwest....were both of them mine?





mt

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< Message edited by kram -- 10/7/2012 4:23 PM >

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/8/2012 1:08 AM   
samparfitt


 

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Status: offline 		Sanders,
those are Vailly's pilots.
======

Kram,
I'm only counting Ziroli P-61's!

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/8/2012 10:17 PM   
kram



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Status: offline 		Sam:

Yeah, you kindly underestimate my twinsanity.

Both the green and the black above are Ziroli's

While I have flown both at Owatonna, I'm not sure you were there.

My THIRD P-61, and the one with by far the most flights is a VQ.

My last flight with VQ, I suffered a right engine-out on a go-around in front of a bunch of really vocal judgmental "friends" at our Multi-Fly. Here's some bad video:

http://porcupine.smugmug.com/Other/RC-Planes/25375469_4Rqz3x#!i=2087510770&k=pMN6cPv

I only got one flight on the black Ziroli this year. Although I did get the throttle dysynchrony straightened out, the whole STOL-full-flaps-slow-throttle landing dream continues to evade me. It continues to behave poorly with full flaps and it cost me another expensive prop tip. My latest theory is a weak servo on one big outboard flap, so I changed those to 8411's. I've been flying it for 8 years and have reconstructed it several times, so maybe it's just too old!

< Message edited by kram -- 10/9/2012 1:21 AM >

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 10/15/2012 3:39 PM   
ducky22


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat56

duckky
did you fly your plane
how about some photos



Still not there yet, I am not as speedy as Sam.  I was on vacation for a few weeks and am now just getting back to it.



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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 5/3/2013 11:48 AM   
bleinmiller


 

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Status: offline 		Wow! This thread is a real who's who of P-61 flyers. I'm a big fan of this plane and am building a Ziroli model.

I have questions regarding radio set up. I hope I'm not hi-jacking the thread but I want some P-61 specific techniques that have worked for you. I have a general understanding of using dual receivers for a craft with such a high servo count. How do you divide the servo load between the two? Is it as simple as plumbing servos from each side to their respective rx? Do devices such as the Smart Fly Expander Pro come into play in a system that already uses two rx's or is it an alternative to twin rx's? I've used Y-harnesses a lot but never with this many servos and don't know if the added number of connectors will add considerable resistance. Certainly it would add more points of potential failures. I've really enjoyed watching your build Sam and look forward to hearing from you and the other P-61 guys I've seen post in this thread. These are examples of a few of my questions but please feel free to expand on the subject. I'm just now switching to 2.4 as well so I expect there will be some things to learn there as well. Thank you guys, looking forward to learning from you. Brett

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 5/3/2013 11:48 PM   
samparfitt


 

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Status: offline 		Brett,
Check post #455 at

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9301411/mpage_19/key_/tm.htm

I use two JR power safe receivers. I don't use any power boxes as I feel the power safe do the same thing for me.
I make my own Y' (some are triple Y's) and extensions using 20 gauge wire. Also, I've never had problems using Y's and I'm comfortable using one channel to power more than one surface. I also am comfortable using servo reversers as they also have never given me any problems.
right receiver will power right aileron, spoiler, rudder, outside pair of flaps and half the elevator.
Left receiver will power left aileron, spoiler, rudder, inside pair of flaps and other half of elevator.
Only one receiver powers both engines and chokes as I want them to be both dead or running, not half.
Obviously, gear, and other non moving surfaces can be assigned to either receiver.
I like short linkages from servos to moving surfaces and I like servos connected directly to each moving surface without other mechanical means; ie, 4 flaps, 4 servos.
I also use two batteries per receiver giving my a total of 10,500 ma's: like engines, you can never have two much 'juice'. (I double battery all my receivers.)
This is what I'm comfortable with: you'll have to do what you're comfortable with and I'm sure your methods will work just as well.

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 5/4/2013 1:16 AM   
bleinmiller


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Sam. It's an awesome build thread. Somehow I overlooked 455 and the posts around it. I'm learning a lot here and appreciate the time you took to make this thread.

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RE: ZIROLI P-61 BLACK WIDOW BUILD - 5/4/2013 1:27 AM   
samparfitt


 

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Status: offline 		you're welcome.
Hey, there's 25 pages: not easy to find everything.

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