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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/21/2013 1:34 PM   
karlik



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From: Spanaway, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm thinking that's a 2 channel? Kinda hard not to hit stuff with limited control, but fun for the kids who'll break it soon anyway.

I'm a bit strange I guess - I learned on that old falcon 40 and now I'm partial to a rate mode gyro - I like that I don't have to force it around in turns, I just need to help it a little. My 450 was originally set in rate and I've always flown it that way.
I decided to try setting up HH on the 450, and I think my gy48 gyro has problems in HH.
The mains spin clockwise, so the body will want to spin counter clockwise. That should mean the tail rotor will add some right trim to counter that?
So in the attached pic the bottom is what my tail looks like setup for rate mode, with some right trim added in. The top is what it looks like setup for a hover in HH, with a bunch of left trim added??? It should be spinning out of control in HH, but that's where it has to be to hover. And if I fly around, the tail will just lose authority and get all wishy washy and wander back amd forth.
I've put it back in rate (if the weather holds I'll make the fine tuning adjustments today) and I'll replace that gyro as soon as I can.

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/21/2013 2:57 PM   
phillyD



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Status: offline 		Yay Chuck Yay
Dunno what it is though, can't see youtube at work, but I'll yay again when I get home

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/23/2013 8:29 PM   
phillyD



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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/23/2013 11:16 PM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Larry - heli freak has a guy (Finless Bob) who has a bunch of how to vids & the one about the gyro & tail setup was pretty good. Sorry I'm not so good with tails myself.

I'm not sure how many channels! It had throttle sorta' But ti didn't seem linear. The right stick just spun it around. There where 2 buttons but I didn't get a chance to much with them. I kinda' think they were trim buttons.

If they continue to show ANY interest, they'll get a HorizonHobby Scout to play with which seemed good in the ads.

Phil - I went to a "Live In The South" home show & a guy was there from St Lucia who wanted me to come down & look at his resort property. I almost did, figured I could jumpa puddle jumper & stop in to say Hi to you but "She who must be obeyed" would not write out the $3,000 USD check! Darn!

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/24/2013 3:05 AM   
phillyD



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Status: offline 		LMAO to wake up the neighbours Chucky
That  person must be the bride of Chucky LMAO again

LMAO again I saw the vid..that was some mean heli flying.

Oh got my painted fuselage to get the part to replace the nose of my "bought white" fuse. There is no NASA quality(LOL) the locating  pins are placed different. I guess painted is diffrent to unpainted..well yes! LOL

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/24/2013 10:11 PM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		So if it's a failure & I didn't video it, did it happen??

I put the airboat in the grass w/ a light covering of snow & at full throttle it just sat there. Hmmm...


Phil - all I can say is "It's always something!" Bride of Chucky LMAO!

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/25/2013 3:48 PM   
clp.eng


 

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/26/2013 4:06 PM   
9sec240



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Status: offline 		Chuck, missed you last night at the dome. I put 12 batteries through the Nano. It was awesome flying in an area that was big enough to push my comfort zone. BTW, I forwarded you an email from John last Saturday with his phone number. He bugged me all night about you getting in touch with him.

EDIT. Awesome video Chuck. Thanks for the link.

< Message edited by 9sec240 -- 1/26/2013 5:32 PM >

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/27/2013 1:03 AM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Ivan - I had everything packed but I couldn't keep awake! I figured that is not a good combo especially w/ questionable helis! Glad to hear you did good & had some fun. The bag is still packed! Sorry about the pesty guy! I'll call him tomorrow just to get him off your back! LOL

A friend of mine out west sends me stuff almost every day, most is junk but every once there is a gem like that UAV vid! Kinda' unsettling watching it...

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/27/2013 5:51 PM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Ivan - I talked to John & took all the heat for not calling sooner! LOL

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/29/2013 1:10 AM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Any opinions on shaft drive tails vs. belt drive?

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/29/2013 4:50 PM   
phillyD



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Status: offline 		Oh Yes Sir Chuckenstein
Torque tube very smooth tail once everything is straight. Heli rotates while holding by the head button...smooth. If  torque tube tail balde touch the ground/crash(bad word)..damage to tail blades, drive shaft, shaft bearing and the gears at the back and if hard enough the foward drive gears..we let's leave out the tail output shaft as both setups have it.  Belt tail...... no drive shaft, drive bearing, foward drive gears, tail end drive gears. I straightened my  belt after my last crash LMAO

David my part-time camera man has a T-Rex 450 pro...torque tube

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/30/2013 12:22 AM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Thanks, Phil. There seems to be a lot of opinions on both sides of that question. I ask because KDS has a 450 FBL with shaft drive in a kit form for an amount I can almost justify. I couldnd't find a belt drive any where for near that price. Hmmm, more choices. You pretty much said what I've been readin - smooth, efficient & costly. And I'm definitely still on the wrong side of the Big Azz Fish! I would figure to order about another hundred bucks in spare parts, mostly tail stuff!

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/30/2013 1:35 AM   
dunkonu23



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Status: offline 		My take on torque tubes or no?   Honestly?  I like torque tubes better.   I like them for a number of reasons:

1.  No static discharge.
2.  Ease of setupthey just work, no belts to adjustthis can be a biggie if the tail case isn't keyed.  Sure, after a while it takes a minute or two, but still...
3.  Smooth, quiet power to the tail.   Ever heard a misadjusted belt? 
4.  Safety ever had a belt snap in flight?   I have; more than a couple of times, too. 
5.  Twist it the wrong way and you're pulling the boom  or taking something apart.

That's enough for the torque tube.

Belts are:

1.  Simple.
2.  Can be very quiet if adjusted properly.
3.  They work. 

Cons for torque tubes:

1.  Gearing.   Some helicopters eat them up if you look at them the wrong way.   Crash and you're sure to eat a set.  The only helicopter I've got where I haven't eaten a set of gears is my Rush 750.  Seriously tough gears there.  I've planted the tail hard... Ivan saw one of them at IRCHA last year.
2.  Bearings, rubbers, and installation; somtimes it's a pain.

Scott



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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/31/2013 4:19 AM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Thanks, Scott.

I can prob make the new 450 FBL for less than half the cost of the new KDS 450. But I really like the looks of the frame & the shaft drive & the canopy & the ebar & ...

However, given my recent experiences flying, do I want another really nice heli sitting here, staring at me, giving me a guilt complex! LOL

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 1/31/2013 11:41 PM   
dknovick



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quote:

ORIGINAL: clp.eng

Dave - good deal on Nexus. Let me know what you think when you've used it a bit. The Kindle is OK. I have the greatest pinball game - takes me back to my misspent youth in taverns! LOL

Love the Nexus10! While I loved my Nook Color, I love the freedom of having an real Android device, and being able to download anything I want. Funny you mentioned pinball, I download this:
Pinball Arcade

Ouch on the wrecks. But you're not allowed to quit helis!

A 6 is a hexacopter.

I second what phil and Scott say about the tube vs. the belt, I'll probably switch to a tube sometime, but since I still whack the tail every so often, I like the fact I don't tear things up with a belt.

Scott-
analog goodness!

phD-
Noooooo! Damn BAF! (Big Azz Fish for you and Chuck). Nice detective work.

Ivan-
Good to see ya, and good to hear you haven't lost your thumb action.
Totally sucks about the house. Here's wishing that you're in the short end of it, and it will be over soon.

Larry-
Good to see ya. It's been a while for me to think about the tail (but I'll give it some thought). If I remember correctly, there's a way to set up the gyro and the tail for rate, and a different method for HH



I'm taking the FAA ground school course for a private pilots certificate (the course is job related, but I still haven't been able to get them to pay for flight lessons, yet ), so every Mon and Wed from 6-9p I'm in class. Evenings and weekends, I'm reading and studying. Fun/Interesting stuff, but it does suck up all my free time.

-Dave


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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/1/2013 1:27 AM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Dave - that's the one! I got the Arabian Knights table for free. I'm sure the game is rigged as I got 20-30 million the first few times I played & almost NEVER went out the side exits or straight down the middle. Now I'm lucky to score 2 or 3 million points! Glad the Nexus is working out for you. (I had hoped my wife would dominate the Kindle & I could go buy the Nexus for me but she shows almost zero interest in it!)

Great on the gnd school! Good luck! And your welcome! (using my tax dollars!)

I've been reading & watching about setting curves (again) & looking forward to the dome tomorrow as I'd like to try a couple of things I've read about on the 300 & hope not to crash!. (This one is a hoot! link

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/1/2013 9:23 PM   
clp.eng


 

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Status: online 		Still poking around on heli setups & boy am I glad. I found a vid for the 300X & the 1st thing the guy reminded us all was NOT to use the manual setup but the addendum. I had completely forgot about this. Found the addendum & reset the throttle curve! Wheww & thanks to NightFlyer.

Chuck

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/2/2013 6:42 PM   
9sec240



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Status: offline 		It was nice seeing you again last night Chuck. Good times!! I dug my mCP X and mCP X V2 out of storage, stopped by Al's Hobby and picked up an mCP X BL and grabbed my nCP X and headed to the dome. I put four packs through the Nano, found most of the batteries for my mCP X are kaput, found a broken battery cable on my V1 so I couldn't fly that one but the V2 flew well when I found batteries that worked OK. I got three packs in on the BL and that thing is wicked. Still working on getting it dialed in to my liking but I think it is a winner so far.

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/3/2013 8:55 PM   
karlik



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Status: offline 		Chuck -
Belts have some give. I had a slight glitch and my tail blades hit the ground - I had to replace the blades but no other damage - if you've got the belt adjusted right it'll slip before anything breaks.
A torque tube won't change with weather - but a belt will stretch when it gets warm, and shrink when it gets cold, so you'll be checking and adjusting tension on the belt a lot.

Dave - I'm back to just rate mode for now. At some point I'll get a better gyro and see if it works different.

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/4/2013 1:30 PM   
dunkonu23



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Status: offline 		Larry,

If you're used to rate mode, more power to you.   Most people fly in HH mode.  I'm not familiar with your gyro, but I am familiar with correction direction in HH gyros.  If, in HH, your blades do not provide pitch against torque when the tail is movedtorque being the direction your moving the tail, you're not going to be happy with HH mode at all.  I'm not familiar at all with your gyro, but the thing I would avoid in HH mode is any transmitter trim-subtrim may work.  Usually, though, transmitter trim gets interpretted as rudder input and that is recipe for improper gyro initializing and subsequent issues with HH working correctly.  

Again, just a note... if you're happy with rate mode, so be it!

Scott


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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/4/2013 4:39 PM   
karlik



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Status: offline 		I actually prefer rate mode - I learned everything from orientation to forward flight on the old falcon 40 with a crappy rate gyro and motor driven tail that had some lag time for the tail rpm to increase. I don't do any 3D stuff, just slow simple stuff (right now I'm working on what will eventually become a procedure turn).
I find when I bank and go into a turn in rate mode the tail just follows the heli around and I only need to help it a little bit. With heading hold the tail holds solid and I have to force it around in a banked turn.
For me rate feels more natural and looks better, but there are times where a HH would work better and I'd like to have it available - and that's gonna mean a new gyro at some point.

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/11/2013 12:07 AM   
phillyD



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Status: offline 		well one month later, this is where she is at, all bearings changed well except the one-way bearing. Dunno what to do..to paint or not to paint the nose

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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/11/2013 2:44 AM   
dknovick



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quote:

ORIGINAL: clp.eng

Dave - that's the one! I got the Arabian Knights table for free. I'm sure the game is rigged as I got 20-30 million the first few times I played & almost NEVER went out the side exits or straight down the middle. Now I'm lucky to score 2 or 3 million points! Glad the Nexus is working out for you. (I had hoped my wife would dominate the Kindle & I could go buy the Nexus for me but she shows almost zero interest in it!)

Great on the gnd school! Good luck! And your welcome! (using my tax dollars!)

The graphics on this app are awesome. Every month, they do a free table. There's rumors about a quad core Nexus 10, so if that comes out, maybe the original will drop enough for you to pick up. I've been downloading a crap ton of games.
Thanks for the tax dollars. Passed (86%) the section I exam of ground school. If you ever have questions about planks, we've covered the aerodynamics section on planes.

Glad you watched the vid before doing anything else.


Ivan-
Glad you back to flying again... I think I remember how to fly...


Larry-
Do what works for ya. I'm sure there are advantages to either mode (Rate, HH), so use the one that best fits your mode of flying.


phD-
Why do you need to paint the nose, I can't see anything wrong in the picture.



Back to the books/tablet...
-Dave


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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2 - 2/11/2013 11:36 AM   
dunkonu23



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Status: offline 		Congrats, Dave!   Off we go....

Phil...  I'm with Dave.. it looks great as is!

Scott


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