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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/23/2012 1:40 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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And a late night clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) Served prior to and during WWII.

(2) Was produced by, and served with, both Allied and Axis forces.

(3) The numbers produced by each combatant were small; well under 100 each.

(4) It was produced mainly for experimental and special purpose use.

(5) At least one was equipped with floats.

(6) It pointed the way to the future, with it’s novel method of control.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/23/2012 9:49 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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And yet another. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) Served prior to and during WWII.

(2) Was produced by, and served with, both Allied and Axis forces.

(3) The numbers produced by each combatant were small; well under 100 each.

(4) It was produced mainly for experimental and special purpose use.

(5) At least one was equipped with floats.

(6) It pointed the way to the future, with it’s novel method of control.

(7) They were in use as late as 1960.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/23/2012 1:42 PM   
MajorTomski



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie P.

And yet another. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) Served prior to and during WWII.

(2) Was produced by, and served with, both Allied and Axis forces.

(3) The numbers produced by each combatant were small; well under 100 each.

(4) It was produced mainly for experimental and special purpose use.

(5) At least one was equipped with floats.

(6) It pointed the way to the future, with it’s novel method of control.

(7) They were in use as late as 1960.





How about the Cierva C.19 autogyro?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/23/2012 11:26 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajorTomski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie P.

And yet another. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) Served prior to and during WWII.

(2) Was produced by, and served with, both Allied and Axis forces.

(3) The numbers produced by each combatant were small; well under 100 each.

(4) It was produced mainly for experimental and special purpose use.

(5) At least one was equipped with floats.

(6) It pointed the way to the future, with it’s novel method of control.

(7) They were in use as late as 1960.





How about the Cierva C.19 autogyro?


Not quite, MajorTomski; but close enough. I was actually talking about the C.30; but you have the general family narrowed down. The C.30 was the production model developed from the C.19. The amazing safety record of autogyros is something that deserves attention along the way. You are up, Sir. Take it away! Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) Served prior to and during WWII.

(2) Was produced by, and served with, both Allied and Axis forces.

(3) The numbers produced by each combatant were small; well under 100 each.

(4) It was produced mainly for experimental and special purpose use.

(5) At least one was equipped with floats.

(6) It pointed the way to the future, with it’s novel method of control.

(7) They were in use as late as 1960.

(8) Civilian aircraft were seized and pressed into service by the military.

(9) Utilized by Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, the Soviet Union, Spain, England, and Yugoslavia.

(10) Produced by England, France and Germany.

(11) Its use of direct control was considered a major advance.



Answer: The Cierva C.30

The Cierva C.30 was an autogiro designed by Juan de la Cierva and built under licence from the Cierva Autogiro Company by A V Roe & Co Ltd (Avro), Lioré-et-Olivier and Focke-Wulf.

Avro
Avro obtained the licence in 1934 and subsequently built 78 examples, under their model designation, fitted with an Armstrong Siddeley Genet Major IA (known in the RAF as the Civet 1) 7-cylinder radial engine producing 140 hp (100 kW). The first production C.30A was delivered in July 1934.

Lioré-et-Olivier
Twenty-five aircraft were built in France by Lioré-et-Olivier as the LeO C.301 with a 175 hp (130 kW) Salmson 9NE 9-cylinder radial engine.

Focke-Wulf
Forty aircraft were built in Germany by Focke-Wulf as the C 30 Heuschrecke (Grasshopper) with a 140 hp (105 kW) Siemens Sh 14A 7-cylinder radial engine.

Before the experimental Cierva C.19 Mk V, autogiros had been controlled in the same way as fixed-wing aircraft, that is by deflecting the air flowing over moving surfaces such as ailerons, elevators and rudder. At the very low speeds encountered in autogiro flight, particularly during landing, these controls became ineffective. The experimental machine showed that the way forward was to have a tilting rotor hub and a control rod coming down from the hub to the pilot's cockpit with which he could change the rotor plane. This was known as "direct control" and was fitted to the C.30. The production variant, called C.30A in England, was preceded by several development machines.
The first production design in the series was the C.30, a radial-engined autogiro with a three-blade, 37 ft (11.3 m) rotor mounted on an aft-leaning tripod, the control column extending into the rear of the two cockpits. The engine was the five-cylinder, 105 hp (78 kW) Armstrong Siddeley Genet Major I used in the C.19 series. The fabric-covered fuselage carried an unbraced tailplane, without elevators but with turned-up tips. The port side plane had an inverted aerofoil section to offset the roll-axis torque produced in forward flight by the advancing port side blades. As with most autogiros, a high vertical tail was precluded by the sagging resting rotor, so the dorsal fin was long and low, extending well aft of the tailplane like a fixed rudder and augmented by a ventral fin. The wide-track undercarriage had a pair of single, wire-braced legs and a small tail wheel was fitted. This model flew in April 1933. It was followed by four improved machines designated C.30P (P here for pre-production) which differed in having a four-legged pyramidal rotor mounting and a reinforced undercarriage with three struts per side. The rotor could be folded rearwards for transport. The C.30P used the more powerful (140 hp, 104 kW) seven-cylinder Armstrong Siddeley Genet Major IA radial engine.


Avro 671 (Cierva C.30A) taxying for take-off at Rearsby Aerodrome in June 1951
The production model, called the C.30A by Avro, was built under licence in Britain, France and Germany and was similar to the C.30P. The main alteration was a further increase in undercarriage track with revised strutting, the uppermost leg having a pronounced knee with wire bracing. There was additional bracing to the tailplane and both it and the fin carried small movable trimming surfaces. Each licensee used nationally built engines and used slightly different names. In all, 143 production C.30s were built, making it by far the most numerous pre-war autogiro.
Between 1933 and 1936, de la Cierva used one C.30A (G-ACWF) to perfect his last contribution to autogyro development before his death in a DC-2 (fixed wing) crash in late 1936. To enable the aircraft to take off without forward ground travel, he produced the "Autodynamic" rotor head, which allowed the rotor to be spun up by the engine in the usual way but to higher than take-off r.p.m at zero rotor incidence and then to reach operational positive pitch suddenly enough to jump some 20 ft (6 m) upwards.
At least one of the RAF C.30As was in January 1935 on floats as a Sea Rota.

This is a list of helicopters used in World War II which includes helicopters, autogyros, and vertical take off and landing aircraft (VTOL).
Germany
Some types in use of Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine
• Focke-Wulf Fw C.30A (La Cierva C.30A) (General Purpose autogyro)
• Focke-Wulf Fw 186 (Liaison autogyro)
• Focke-Wulf Autogyro-Helicopter (Experimental prototype)
• Focke-Wulf Fw 61 (Experimental helicopter)
• Focke Achgelis Fa 330 "Bachstelze" (Autogyro-Glider/Observation vehicle)



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/24/2012 3:46 AM   
MajorTomski



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Ok Please name for me a warbird which:

1. Flew during and after WW-II
2. After the war it was "the" way to fly from/to Europe
3. There were impressed versions and purpose built military versions.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/24/2012 3:00 PM   
uncljoe



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Lockheed "super connie"     US Navy W V-2   , USAF  C 121
Semper Fi
 Joe

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/24/2012 3:49 PM   
MajorTomski



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Way to go Joe! I thought I could get to at least 5 statements befor someone got it

Ok Puzzle us for the weekend

Tom

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/24/2012 11:46 PM   
a65l



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Funny, I was thinking that might be it...

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/25/2012 1:21 AM   
uncljoe



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Guys ,Right now I cannot think of a question , If you have one ,go ahead and post it.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 9:39 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: uncljoe

Guys ,Right now I cannot think of a question , If you have one ,go ahead and post it.

 Semper Fi 


Seeing no other offering... Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII.

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 1:20 PM   
perttime



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Horten Ho 229?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 1:57 PM   
N1EDM



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Even stranger than the Horton, how about a Lippisch P13a, though I don't believe that it ever flew. The fuel was coal dust, from what little I've read...

Bob



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 3:26 PM   
a65l



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I think it's the Vought XF5U

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 5:11 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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No correct answers thus far, but your answers could provide the basis' for some great future questions. And your thinking is definitely in the right direction. Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 9:06 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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Silbervogel?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/26/2012 11:16 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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No correct answers thus far, but some great tries. I apologize for being slow with the clues, but it isn't always easy to log on to TCU these days. Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.

(3) Although the aircraft were deployed, and used successfully in combat with a high rate of success, it was eventually decided conventional aircraft could do the job adequately; and the program was cancelled late in WWII.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 1:35 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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Remember, guys; this bird saw action. Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.

(3) Although the aircraft were deployed, and used successfully in combat with a high rate of success, it was eventually decided conventional aircraft could do the job adequately; and the program was cancelled late in WWII.

(4) The airframe was built by a bicycle manufacturer.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 2:26 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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Last for the night. Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.

(3) Although the aircraft were deployed, and used successfully in combat with a high rate of success, it was eventually decided conventional aircraft could do the job adequately; and the program was cancelled late in WWII.

(4) The airframe was built by a bicycle manufacturer.

(5) It was a twin engined aircraft.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 8:15 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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And the first clue of the day. Thaks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.

(3) Although the aircraft were deployed, and used successfully in combat with a high rate of success, it was eventually decided conventional aircraft could do the job adequately; and the program was cancelled late in WWII.

(4) The airframe was built by a bicycle manufacturer.

(5) It was a twin engined aircraft.

(6) It used a steel tubed frame.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 1:16 PM   
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Sounds like you're describing the WACO assault glider. And the one-off with twin engines.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 3:07 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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Interstate TDR?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 11:28 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnnyS

Interstate TDR?


That's the answer I wanted, JohnnyS; and you are up, Sir. Great job!! The Interstate TDR was one of, if not the, first really practical RPV's. For it's day, quite a feat. Take it away, JohnnyS. Thanks; Ernie P.


This was one of the strangest aircraft built during WWII

What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) The idea behing the design was born in the mid thirties, but the technology of the day simply wouldn’t support the idea.

(2) When the idea was resurrected early in WWII, technology now allowed the idea to be pursued.

(3) Although the aircraft were deployed, and used successfully in combat with a high rate of success, it was eventually decided conventional aircraft could do the job adequately; and the program was cancelled late in WWII.

(4) The airframe was built by a bicycle manufacturer.

(5) It was a twin engined aircraft.

(6) It used a steel tubed frame.

(7) The design was remarkably simple.

(8) Although several thousand were ordered, only a few hundred were actually produced.

(9) After the war, some of the surviving aircraft were converted to civilian use.

(10) The engines were relatively low powered.

(11).The total weight was quite low.


Answer: The Interstate TDR

The Interstate TDR was an early unmanned combat aerial vehicle — referred to at the time as an "assault drone" — developed by the Interstate Aircraft and Engineering Corporation during the Second World War for use by the United States Navy. Capable of being armed with bombs or torpedoes, 2000 aircraft were ordered, but only around 200 were built. The type saw some service in the Pacific Theater against the Japanese, but continuing developmental issues affecting the aircraft, along with the success of operations using more conventional weapons, led to the decision being made to cancel the assault drone program in October 1944.

In 1936, Lieutenant Commander Delmar S. Fahrney proposed that unpiloted, remotely controlled aircraft had potential for use by the United States Navy in combat operations. Due to the limitations of the technology of the time, development of the "assault drone" project was given a low priority, but by the early 1940s the development of the radar altimeter and television made the project more feasible, and following trials using converted manned aircraft, the first operational test of a drone against a naval target was conducted in April 1942. That same month, following trials of the Naval Aircraft Factory TDN assault drone, Interstate Aircraft received a contract from the Navy for two prototype and 100 production aircraft to a simplified and improved design, to be designated TDR-1.

Control of the TDR-1 would be conducted from either a control aircraft, usually a TBF Avenger, with the operator viewing a tv screen showing the view from a camera mounted aboard the drone, and with the radar altimeter's readout also displayed. Powered by two Lycoming O-435 engines of 220 horsepower (160 kW) each, the TDR-1 used a remarkably simple design, with a steel-tube frame constructed by the Schwinn bicycle company covered with a molded wood skin, thus making little use of strategic materials so as not to impede production of higher priority aircraft. Capable of being optionally piloted for test flights, an aerodynamic fairing was used to cover the cockpit area during operational missions. The TDR-1 was equipped with a fixed tricycle landing gear, that on operations would be jettisoned following takeoff for improved performance.

Under the code-name Operation Option, the Navy projected that up to 18 squadrons of assault drones would be formed, with 162 TBF Avenger control aircraft and 1000 assault drones being ordered. However technical difficulties in the development of the TDR-1, combined with a continued low priority given to the project, saw the contract modified with the order reduced to only around 300 aircraft. A single TDR-1 was tested by the U.S. Army Air Forces as the XBQ-4, however no production contract resulted from this testing.

In 1944, under the control of the Special Air Task Force (SATFOR), the TDR-1 was deployed operationally to the South Pacific for operations against the Japanese.[4] TDR-1 aircraft equipped a single mixed squadron (Special Air Task Group 1) along with TBM Avenger control aircraft, and the first operational mission took place on September 27, conducting bombing operations against Japanese ships. Despite this success, the assault drone program had already been canceled after the production of 189 TDR-1 aircraft, due to a combination of continued technical problems, the aircraft failing to live up to expectations, and the fact that more conventional weaponry was proving adequate for the defeat of Japan. The final mission was flown on October 27, with 50 drones having been expended on operations, 31 aircraft successfully striking their targets, without loss to the pilots of STAG-1.
Following the war, some TDR-1s were converted for operation as private sportsplanes.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/27/2012 11:34 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

Sounds like you're describing the WACO assault glider. And the one-off with twin engines.


MajorTomski, that isn't the answer I wanted; but you are correct. Thus far, all the clues would fit both aircraft. A good, but not correct, guess. Thanks; Ernie P.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/28/2012 4:36 AM   
mobyal


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

Ok Please name for me a warbird which:

1. Flew during and after WW-II
2. After the war it was ''the'' way to fly from/to Europe
3. There were impressed versions and purpose built military versions.



Was gone for a few days so missed this one. I see that the Super Connie was the sought-after answer. Don't want to cause a distraction, but isn't there at least one more? Or maybe even two? I would have guessed the Boeing Stratocruiser, developed from the B29, though the modifications used may have been a stretch from the question's intent. And/or the Douglas DC 4, a varient of the C-54? (I think it was the C-54) But maybe I misunderstood the question, as I'm not sure what #3 means.....
Just curious as to whether these could also have been correct answers.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 2/28/2012 12:31 PM   
a65l



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"Impressed" into service means that an aircraft built for the civillian market, to civillian specifications, was taken over for military use. It may have been bought or leased from the owner, but it wasn't originally built to military specifications.

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