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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 3:17 AM   
The Raven



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Pretty much most of the X-Planes carried by 008.... but let's narrow it down to the X-1

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 7:55 AM   
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XF-85 Goblin?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 8:06 AM   
mobyal


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Raven

Pretty much most of the X-Planes carried by 008.... but let's narrow it down to the X-1


Don't think so. The question specifies a warbird. All the X-planes were research aircraft. Looks to me like he's after that class of aircraft known generically as "parasite fighters", designed to be carried by airships/aircraft as a defense against enemy fighters out of range of the then-available escorts. I know they were tried w/ the US airships back in the 30s, but he specified first flight in the late 1940s. I think McDonnell had the XF-85 "Goblin", designed to be carried by the B36. They only mede a couple of them, but I think one did fly sometime in the late 40s. For some reason 1948 comes to mind.
Now, after all that, I bet Ernie has something else in mind....
Al

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 10:03 AM   
uncljoe



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 Thunder jet F 84 B/D (varriants) carried aloft buy the B 29 later a B
semper fi



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 1:42 PM   
a65l



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The obvious, Yokosuka MXY7

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 3:41 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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Man; you guys are really thinking well on this one! As mobyal pointed out, and as most of you had figured out, this was intended to be a warbird. Some very astute answers, guys; but as was pointed out, I have something a bit less obvious in mind. Nothing close thus far. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 8:07 PM   
uncljoe



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Yokosuka MXY "Ohka"  carried by Betty bomber 
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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/10/2012 11:13 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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No correct answers thus far. This is a *big* clue; though I doubt it will help much until a few more clues are added. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 1:41 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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An evening clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 3:05 AM   
zippome


 

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This is a tough one Ernie! The only thing that I can come close to fitting the existing clues is the Martin Gorgon cruise missle family. But it doesnt quite fit either....


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 4:17 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zippome

This is a tough one Ernie! The only thing that I can come close to fitting the existing clues is the Martin Gorgon cruise missle family. But it doesnt quite fit either....



Maybe the next clue will help. The aircraft existed, it had a pilot, and it was flown. Admittedly, it isn't all that well known. And in one sense, I believe it may be completely unique. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 12:10 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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Morning clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 12:23 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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A big morning clue. With an earlier clue, this should give the answer. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

(8) It was equipped with a landing skid.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/11/2012 7:17 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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An early afternoon clue. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

(8) It was equipped with a landing skid.

(9) The cabin was pressurized.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 1:53 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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Everyone out for the weekend? Maybe this will spark a response. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

(8) It was equipped with a landing skid.

(9) The cabin was pressurized.

(10) Midwing design, construction was all metal.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 2:19 AM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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Bell X-1

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 2:27 AM   
Redback



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Me 163???

Forget this, the 163 flew before the late 40's!

Terry

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 6:20 AM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.
(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

Me163 launched on its own with a dropped skid on wheels.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 8:13 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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No correct answers hus far. Perhaps this early morning clue will help. Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

(8) It was equipped with a landing skid.

(9) The cabin was pressurized.

(10) Midwing design, construction was all metal.

(11) It was essentially bullet shaped; with a cylinder shaped body which narrowed to a square in the rear.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 9:19 AM   
G T


 

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I was thinking the Bell X 1 also untill i read that it had swept back wings.
so what about the Douglas D-558 Skyrocket then

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 5:37 PM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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DFS 346
Given Germany's advanced knowledge of high-speed flight, the DFS 346 design featured highly swept wings and tail surfaces, wing fences, and a very clean streamlined fuselage to reduce drag. The plane also carried a single pilot laying on his stomach in a prone position in the aircraft's nose. Although this position was uncomfortable, it allowed the plane to maintain a more aerodynamic profile to reduce drag and improve performance.

The sole DFS 346 prototype was about half-built at the time it was captured, so the plane and the German engineers working on it were moved to a location in the Soviet Union to complete development. The vehicle was renamed simply as Samolyot 346, or "aircraft 346," and finished in 1946. This prototype was used for various ground testing purposes including wind tunnel tests. In 1947, a second example was completed as an unpowered glider to conduct launch and slow-speed flight tests. This 346-P was successfully released from a captured American B-29 that had made an emergency landing in Siberia during the war, and the glider landed safely under the command of German pilot Wolfgang Ziese.


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 11:47 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

DFS 346
Given Germany's advanced knowledge of high-speed flight, the DFS 346 design featured highly swept wings and tail surfaces, wing fences, and a very clean streamlined fuselage to reduce drag. The plane also carried a single pilot laying on his stomach in a prone position in the aircraft's nose. Although this position was uncomfortable, it allowed the plane to maintain a more aerodynamic profile to reduce drag and improve performance.

The sole DFS 346 prototype was about half-built at the time it was captured, so the plane and the German engineers working on it were moved to a location in the Soviet Union to complete development. The vehicle was renamed simply as Samolyot 346, or ''aircraft 346,'' and finished in 1946. This prototype was used for various ground testing purposes including wind tunnel tests. In 1947, a second example was completed as an unpowered glider to conduct launch and slow-speed flight tests. This 346-P was successfully released from a captured American B-29 that had made an emergency landing in Siberia during the war, and the glider landed safely under the command of German pilot Wolfgang Ziese.



And there you have it! Right on the money, Luft-Gangster. You got the answer, and you are up. Congratulations! I think the DFS 346 is interesting because it was the only one of the "Luftwaffe super planes" on the drawing board at the end of the war to actually be completed and flown. Yeah, Kurt Tank did some things in Argentina after the war; but not quite the same thing. Now... wasn't that easy? Thanks; Ernie P.


What warbird do I describe?


Clues:

(1) This aircraft first flew in the late 1940s.

(2) It was carried aloft by a bomber.

(3) It was rocket powered.

(4) It featured sharply swept wings and a bullet shaped fuselage.

(5) It went transonic.

(6) The mother aircraft was a B-29.

(7) The aircraft was designed and construction begun in one country. It was completed and flown in a second country.

(8) It was equipped with a landing skid.

(9) The cabin was pressurized.

(10) Midwing design, construction was all metal.

(11) It was essentially bullet shaped; with a cylinder shaped body which narrowed to a square in the rear.

(12) Length was around 44’; with the wingspan around 29-1/2’.

(13) Its intended mission was photo reconnaissance.

(14) It had an unusual position for the pilot.


Answer: The DFS 346

The DFS 346 (Samolyot 346) was a German rocket-powered swept-wing vehicle subsequently completed and flown (with indifferent success) in the Soviet Union after World War II.[3] It was designed by Felix Kracht at the Deutsche Forschungsanstalt für Segelflug (DFS), the "German Institute for Sailplane Flight". The prototype was still unfinished by the end of the war and was taken to the Soviet Union where it was rebuilt, tested and flown.

The DFS-346 was a midwing design of all-metal construction. The front fuselage of the 346 was a rotation body based on the NACA-Profile 0,0121-0,66-50. The middle part was cylindrical and narrowed to the square in the back. Probably for capacity and weight reasons the DFS-346 was equipped with landing skids, both in the original German design and in the later Soviet prototypes; this caused trouble several times.

The wings had a 45° swept NACA 0,012-0,55-1,25 profile of 12% thickness. The continuously varying profile shape caused a stall in certain flight conditions, which caused complete loss of control. This was later corrected by use of fences on the top of the wings.

The DFS 346 was a parallel project to the DFS 228 high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, designed under the direction of Felix Kracht and his team at DFS. While the DFS 228 was essentially of conventional sailplane design, the DFS 346 had highly-swept wings and a highly streamlined fuselage that its designers hoped would enable it to break the sound barrier.

Like its stablemate, it also featured a self-contained escape module for the pilot, a feature originally designed for the DFS 54 prior to the war. The pilot was to fly the machine from a prone position, a feature decided from experience with the first DFS 228 prototype. This was mainly because of the smaller cross-sectional area and easier sealing of the pressurized cabin, but it was also known to help with g-force handling.

The 346 design was intended to be air-launched from the back of a large aircraft, the baseline being the Dornier Do 217. After launch, the pilot would fire the 346's Walter 509B/C engine to accelerate to a proposed speed of Mach 2.6 and altitude of 30,500 meters (100,000 ft). This engine had two chambers, high and low thrust, and after reaching altitude the speed could be maintained by short bursts of the smaller chamber.

In an operational use the plane would then glide over England for a photo-reconnaissance run, descending as it flew but still at a high speed. After the run was complete the engine would be briefly turned on again, to raise the altitude for a long low-speed glide back to a base in Germany or northern France.
[edit] Prototype construction

Since the aircraft was to be of all-metal construction, the DFS lacked the facilities to build it and construction of the prototype was assigned to Siebel Werke located in Halle, where the first windtunnel models and partially built prototype were captured by the advancing Red Army.

On 22 October 1946, the Soviet OKB-2 (Design Bureau 2), under the direction of Hans Rössing and Alexandr Bereznyak, was tasked with continuing its development.

The captured DFS 346, now simply called "Samolyot 346" ("Samolyot" - Aircraft) to distance it from its German origins, was completed and tested in TsAGI wind tunnel T-101. Tests revealed some aerodynamic deficiencies which would result in unrecoverable stalls at certain angles of attack. This phenomenon involved a loss of longitudinal stability of the airframe. After the wind tunnel tests, two wing fences were installed on a more advanced, longer version of the DFS-346, to correct the airstream separation.

This solution was used on the majority of the Soviet planes with sweptback wings of the 1950s and 1960s. In the meantime, the escape capsule system was tested from a B-25J and proved promising. Despite results from studies showing that the plane would not have been able to pass even Mach 1, it was ordered to proceed with construction and further testing.

Operational use
In 1947, an entirely new 346 prototype was constructed, incorporating refinements suggested by the tests. This was designated 346-P ("P" for planer - "glider"). No provision was made for a powerplant, but ballast was added to simulate the weight of an engine and fuel. This was carried to altitude by a B-29 Superfortress captured in Vladivostok and successfully flown by Wolfgang Zeise in a series of tests. This led to the construction of three more prototypes, intended to lead to powered flight of the type.
Newly built 346-1 incorporated minor aerodynamic refinements over the 346-P, and was first flown by Zeise on September 30, 1948, with dummy engines installed. The glider was released at an altitude of 9700 m, and the pilot realised that he hardly could maintain control of the aircraft. Consequently, while attempting to land, he descended too fast (his speed was later estimated at 310 km/h). After first touching the ground he bounced up to a height of 3–4 m and flew 700–800 m. At the second descent, the landing ski collapsed and the fuselage hit the ground hard.[4]

The pilot seat structure and safety-belt proved to be very unreliable, because at the end of a rough braking course Zeise was thrown forward and struck the canopy with his head, losing consciousness. Luckily, he wasn't seriously injured, and after treatment in hospital he was able to return to flying. Accident investigation research team came to the conclusion that the crash was a result of pilot error, who failed to fully release the landing skid. This accident showed that the aircraft handling was still very unpredictable, as a result, all rocket-powered flights were postponed until pilots were able to effectively control the aircraft in unpowered descent, requiring further glide flights.[4]

The damaged 346-1 was later repaired and modified to 346-2 version. It was successfully flown by test pilot P.Kazmin in 1950-1951 winter, but nonetheless these flights also ended "on fuselage". Furthermore, after the last flight of these series, the airframe again required major repairs. On 10 May in 1951, Zeise returned to the program, flying final unpowered test flights with the 346-2, and from 6 June, unpowered tests of the 346-3 without accidents.

By the mid-1951 346-3 was completed, and Zeise flew it under power for the first time on 13 August 1951, using only one of the plane's engines. Continuing concerns about the aircraft's stability at high speeds had led to a VNE limit of Mach 0.9 being placed during test flights. Zeise flew it again on 2 September and 14 September. On this last flight, however, things went drastically wrong. Separating from the carrier plane at 9,300 meters (30,500 ft) above Lukovici airfield, the pilot fired the engine and accelerated to a speed of 900 km/h (560 mph). The rocket engine worked as expected, and 346-3, quickly accelerating, started ascending and soon had flown in very close proximity of its carrier aircraft.[4]

Zeise then reported that the plane was not responding to the controls, and was losing altitude. Ground control commanded him to bail out. He used the escape capsule to leave the stricken aircraft at 6,500 meters (21,000 ft) and landed safely by parachute. With the loss of this aircraft, the 346 program was abandoned.[
Variants


DFS-346 - First prototype built by Siebel Werke in the early 1940s. Later taken to USSR where the newly formed OKB-2 tested it in TsAGI wind tunnel.Later scrapped, because it was not flyable.

346-P - This airframe was first post-war build of this plane, and was completed in 1948 by German engineers. Visually 346-P was identical to the earlier design, excepting a landing gear cowl which was removed primarily for lightening the airframe. This prototype also featured mounted under wing supports, to help stop the plane when landed.

346-1(A) - On the 5 May 1949 construction of 346-1 was finished. It had a rocket engine mock up installed, and incorporated some minor changes in the rudder and tail design.

346-2(D) - The same as 346-1, but the rocket engines fitted.

346-3 - Only plane that flew rocket-engine powered, and twice went transonic.

General characteristics
Crew: one, pilot
Length: 44 ft 1 in (13.45 m)
Wingspan: 29 ft 6 in (9 m)
Height: 11 ft 7 in (3.54 m)
Wing area: 213 ft² (19.9 m²)
Airfoil: DFS 346#Design
Empty weight: 4,806 lb (2,100 kg)
Loaded weight: 11,506 lb (5,230 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Walter HWK 109-509 rocket, 33.4 kN (7,500 lbf) 33.4 kN

Note: Went transonic when being tested by Soviets after war.



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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/12/2012 11:51 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: G T

I was thinking the Bell X 1 also untill i read that it had swept back wings.
so what about the Douglas D-558 Skyrocket then


If you look closely, you weren't all that far off the mark, G T. Thanks; Ernie P.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/13/2012 4:14 AM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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Wow, I just enjoyed the research and what I learned from it.  I'M UP!  If this means I get to ask the next question, then here goes.  If not correct me please, because I have not read this whole tread.
How many clues do I start with and at what frequency do I add more?

What Warbird do I describe?

Clues:

(1)  Multi Purpose Aircraft.

(2) Could take off and land on a football field with a 35,000lb payload.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/13/2012 5:52 AM   
cfircav8r



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C-130 with RATO?

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