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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/13/2012 5:37 PM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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cfircav8r
Right on the money.  C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.  Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
Multi Purpose:
   Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber. (many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88"x108" pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/14/2012 12:16 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

cfircav8r
Right on the money.  C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.  Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
Multi Purpose:
   Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber. (many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.


Luft-Gangster; that's the kind of detail that adds to the discussion. It helps me learn, and I suspect I'm not alone. Thanks: Ernie P.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/14/2012 5:07 PM   
cfircav8r



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Sorry I'm late in getting back.

This may be easy but here goes.

1. Poor high altitude performance.

2. Extremely vulnerable in air-to-air combat.

3. Didn't come into its own until its mission changed.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/14/2012 7:57 PM   
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P-40?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/14/2012 9:58 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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P-39 Airacobra?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/15/2012 12:09 AM   
cfircav8r



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Well JonnyS You were too quick, the P-39 or P-400 Airacobra. My next clue was going to be "sometimes referred to as a P-40 with a zero on its tail "

The P-39 was a mediocre fighter due to the poor high altitude performance and the fact that the most vulnerable parts (engine and coolant) was in the aft portion of the A/C. Losses were high in the air to air role, but when they started useing them for the dangerous ground/ship attack role they started to shine. This was most evident with the Russians success in using them in this role.

P-39's that were sent to the USAAF in the south pacific were designated the P-400, and its poor high altitude performance and air to air vulerabilities earned it the title of a P40 with a Zero on its tail.

When it finally started being used as a ground attack aircraft its abilities began to shine through. With the large cannon in the nose it was a heavy hitter and if they were bounced at low altitude they had a superior roll rate at speeds below 265 mph. This made it a great ground attack A/C that could hold its own in a low altitude dogfight.


JonnyS your up

Robert.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/15/2012 12:42 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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New clues:

1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

2. It had a bubble canopy.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/15/2012 6:54 PM   
Mein Duff



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Dehavilland Mosquito?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/15/2012 7:44 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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Not the Mosquito.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/15/2012 8:56 PM   
jessiej



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

cfircav8r
Right on the money.  C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.  Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
Multi Purpose:
   Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber. (many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.


Luft-Gangster, I don't really have anything to add except as noted by a previuos poster thanks for the detail.

I missed benefiting from the use of the C-130 as a gunship, my only gunship experience being three instances when the C-47 versions were used. I recall being very happy that the gunship was there when needed, but less than happy at being at a place it was needed.

jess

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/16/2012 2:45 AM   
Luft-Gangster


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej


quote:

ORIGINAL: Luft-Gangster

cfircav8r
Right on the money.  C-130 with JATO assist as we called it back in the 70's.  Hercules or Herky Bird as those of us who served in the USAF refered to her as.
Multi Purpose:
   Cargo ( palatized or rolling ) - carry airborne troops - Gun Ship (Black Bird or Puff the Magic Dragon) - and don't forger bomber. (many instant Drop Zones were created by strapping a bomb to a standard 88''x108'' pallet, arming and dropping it out the back cargo door and instant DZ with no enemy.
During the Easter Offensive of 1972 the flight engineer and loadmaster had the privelege of hanging through criss crossed tie-down strapes in the side jump doors and shooting flares accross the front of the path of SAM's fired at the aircraft.

Well cfircav8r, I guess your up. Congratulations.


Luft-Gangster, I don't really have anything to add except as noted by a previuos poster thanks for the detail.

I missed benefiting from the use of the C-130 as a gunship, my only gunship experience being three instances when the C-47 versions were used. I recall being very happy that the gunship was there when needed, but less than happy at being at a place it was needed.

jess


jessiej
Only saw a C-130 as a gunship once in the spring of 72.  I was at Camp Holloway in the central highlands by Pleacau (sp?) We were closing down the chopper repair facility there and shipping to Cam Ran Bay.  A rocket was fired off the side of a hill at the Air Force base next door when just a few minutes later a 130 gun ship appeared.  RRRUUUUUPPPPPP, an orange streak started out of the plane and appeared continuous all the way to the ground for just a few seconds.  No more rockets were fired from the side of that hill.   Glad he was on our side.  A couple of nights later, I was about 100 yards from the ammo dump there when it blew up.  Fourth of July fire works were never the same after that.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/16/2012 3:32 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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New clues:

1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

2. It had a bubble canopy.

3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 11:14 AM   
perttime



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So far, I've only found some US test reports (late 1940s?) about aluminium skinned balsa structures...

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 1:40 PM   
cfircav8r



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De Havilland Hornet

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 2:07 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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Not the Hornet.

New clues:

1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

2. It had a bubble canopy.

3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

4. It could retract the nose wheel and rest the nose on a small wheel attached by the ground crew, tilting the tail up so another aircraft could be pushed tightly in behind it to save space in the hangar.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 5:01 PM   
Mein Duff



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OK heres a wild one...read somewhere recently that some jets were made partially out of wood composites..
F-86 Sabre? ...jet family or prop family?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 5:07 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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Not the F-86 family.

New clues:

1. The skin of the aircraft included panels made from balsa wood sandwiched between aluminum or fiberglass outer skins.

2. It had a bubble canopy.

3. The company that built it had an internal competition to name the aircraft.

4. It could retract the nose wheel and rest the nose on a small wheel attached by the ground crew, tilting the tail up so another aircraft could be pushed tightly in behind it to save space in the hangar.

5. It used a Westinghouse jet engine.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 5:26 PM   
Mein Duff



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F-84 Thunderjet?

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 5:29 PM   
uncljoe



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FJ 1 Fury
Semper Fi 

< Message edited by uncljoe -- 3/17/2012 6:37 PM >


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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 5:44 PM   
lbrande


 

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Vought F6U Pirate

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 6:50 PM   
uncljoe



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MAKE THAT  a    FH 2 BANSHEE  not a fury
semper fi
 joe

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/17/2012 11:02 PM   
JohnnyS


 

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And we have a winner!!!!!

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F6U_Pirate

You're up, lbrande!!

The Vought F6U Pirate was the company's first jet fighter, designed for US Navy during the mid-1940s. Although pioneering the use of turbojet power as the first naval fighter with an afterburner and composite material construction, the aircraft proved to be underpowered and was judged unsuitable for combat. None were ever issued to operational squadrons and they were relegated to development, training and test roles before they were withdrawn from service in 1950.

A specification was issued by the US Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics (BuAer) for a single-seat, carrier-based fighter powered by a Westinghouse24C (later J34) axial turbojet on 5 September 1944. Chance Vought was awarded a contract for three V-340 (company designation) prototypes on 29 December 1944.[1]

The XF6U was a small aircraft with tricycle landing gear and with straight wings and tail surfaces. The wings were short enough that they did not need to fold. In order to fit more aircraft into crowded hangars, the nose gear could be retracted and the aircraft's weight would rest on a small wheel attached by the ground crew. This raised the tail up so that it could overlap the nose of the aircraft behind it. The jet engine was mounted in the rear of the fuselage and was fed by ducts in each wing root.[2]

The most unusual feature of the aircraft was its use of "Metalite" for its skin. This was made of balsa that was sandwiched between two thin sheets of aluminum. "Fabrilite" was also used for the surfaces of the vertical stabilizer and rudder; this was similar to Metalite, but used fiberglass instead of aluminum. Two fuel tanks were fitted in the center of the fuselage. The forward tank, ahead of the wing, contained 220 US gallons (830 l; 180 imp gal) and the rear tank, 150 US gallons (570 l; 120 imp gal). These were supplemented by two jettisonable 140-US-gallon (530 l; 120 imp gal) tip tanks. The cockpit was well forward and was provided with a bubble canopy which gave the pilot good visibility. He was provided with a Mk 6 lead-computing gyro gunsight. Underneath the cockpit were four 20 mm (0.79 in) M3 autocannon. Their 600 rounds of ammunition were carried behind the pilot. The empty casings of the two upper guns were retained in the aircraft, while those from the two lower guns were ejected overboard.[3]

After a company-wide contest to name the aircraft, the initial prototype, named the Pirate, made its first flight on 2 October 1946. Flight testing revealed severe aerodynamic problems, mostly caused by the airfoil section and thickness of the wing. The vertical stabilizer also had to be redesigned to smooth out the airflow at the intersection of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Other changes included the addition of dive brakes on the sides of the fuselage and the replacement of the Metalite panels near the engine's exhaust with stainless steel ones.[4]

The first XF6U-1 prototype was powered by a Westinghouse J34-WE-22 turbojet with 3,000 lbf (13.34 kN) thrust, one third of the weight of the aircraft. To help improve the underpowered aircraft's performance, the third prototype, which first flew on 10 November 1947, was lengthened by 8 feet (2.4 m) to use a Westinghouse J34-WE-30[5] afterburning engine of 4,224 lbf (18.78 kN) thrust, the first United States Navy fighter to have such a powerplant.[6]

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/19/2012 1:10 AM   
Ernie P.


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnnyS

And we have a winner!!!!!

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F6U_Pirate

You're up, lbrande!!

The Vought F6U Pirate was the company's first jet fighter, designed for US Navy during the mid-1940s. Although pioneering the use of turbojet power as the first naval fighter with an afterburner and composite material construction, the aircraft proved to be underpowered and was judged unsuitable for combat. None were ever issued to operational squadrons and they were relegated to development, training and test roles before they were withdrawn from service in 1950.

A specification was issued by the US Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics (BuAer) for a single-seat, carrier-based fighter powered by a Westinghouse24C (later J34) axial turbojet on 5 September 1944. Chance Vought was awarded a contract for three V-340 (company designation) prototypes on 29 December 1944.[1]

The XF6U was a small aircraft with tricycle landing gear and with straight wings and tail surfaces. The wings were short enough that they did not need to fold. In order to fit more aircraft into crowded hangars, the nose gear could be retracted and the aircraft's weight would rest on a small wheel attached by the ground crew. This raised the tail up so that it could overlap the nose of the aircraft behind it. The jet engine was mounted in the rear of the fuselage and was fed by ducts in each wing root.[2]

The most unusual feature of the aircraft was its use of ''Metalite'' for its skin. This was made of balsa that was sandwiched between two thin sheets of aluminum. ''Fabrilite'' was also used for the surfaces of the vertical stabilizer and rudder; this was similar to Metalite, but used fiberglass instead of aluminum. Two fuel tanks were fitted in the center of the fuselage. The forward tank, ahead of the wing, contained 220 US gallons (830 l; 180 imp gal) and the rear tank, 150 US gallons (570 l; 120 imp gal). These were supplemented by two jettisonable 140-US-gallon (530 l; 120 imp gal) tip tanks. The cockpit was well forward and was provided with a bubble canopy which gave the pilot good visibility. He was provided with a Mk 6 lead-computing gyro gunsight. Underneath the cockpit were four 20 mm (0.79 in) M3 autocannon. Their 600 rounds of ammunition were carried behind the pilot. The empty casings of the two upper guns were retained in the aircraft, while those from the two lower guns were ejected overboard.[3]

After a company-wide contest to name the aircraft, the initial prototype, named the Pirate, made its first flight on 2 October 1946. Flight testing revealed severe aerodynamic problems, mostly caused by the airfoil section and thickness of the wing. The vertical stabilizer also had to be redesigned to smooth out the airflow at the intersection of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Other changes included the addition of dive brakes on the sides of the fuselage and the replacement of the Metalite panels near the engine's exhaust with stainless steel ones.[4]

The first XF6U-1 prototype was powered by a Westinghouse J34-WE-22 turbojet with 3,000 lbf (13.34 kN) thrust, one third of the weight of the aircraft. To help improve the underpowered aircraft's performance, the third prototype, which first flew on 10 November 1947, was lengthened by 8 feet (2.4 m) to use a Westinghouse J34-WE-30[5] afterburning engine of 4,224 lbf (18.78 kN) thrust, the first United States Navy fighter to have such a powerplant.[6]


Ibrande; please post your question. Thanks; Ernie P.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/19/2012 11:20 PM   
Ernie P.


 

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Since we seem to have lost lbrande, the floor is open. First come, first served. If you have a question, please post it now. If no one posts a question this evening, I will post one. Now is your chance, guys; post away. Thanks; Ernie P.

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RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz - 3/20/2012 12:28 AM   
MajorTomski



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cfircav8r


P-39's that were sent to the USAAF in the south pacific were designated the P-400, and its poor high altitude performance and air to air vulerabilities earned it the title of a P40 with a Zero on its tail.

Robert.



Actually Rober the P-400s were P-400s, they never were P-39s. These were built for the RAF, who once they owned the first batch found out how inferior they were in the European combat arena. These never left the US for the RAF so the USAAF took them over and used them.

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