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Won't go airborne!!! - 7/17/2003 11:18:56 PM   
Timbersnake



Posts: 91
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Ketchikan, AK,
Status: offline 		Here are a couple other examples of float/aircraft combinations

Trainer 60 with GP40s

Thunder Tiger Lazy 51 with GP20s

Kadet LT40 GP20's

TT Champ45 with GP20's

(can only figure out how to upload one pic! sorry guys!)

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 26

Re: Full scale - 7/18/2003 12:22:49 AM   
JohnBuckner



Posts: 3935
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Kingman, AZ, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jrf
Now come on guys. Do you really think the proper setup on a fullscale floatplane has anything to do with the proper setup for a model floatplane?
, but emulating the full scales is almost guaranteed to be wrong.

Jim [/QUOTE]


Well Jim, Yes I do particularly when it comes to float design and installation. Now I am certainly not an aerodynamic egghead so I,ve no intention of rattling off a bunch of meaningless numbers but will say I have set up a large number of floatplanes since the middle fiftys for both myself and others: RC, freeflight, and controlline and its amazing how through the school of hard knocks all the good ones come out looking just like fullscale. That is a school I am sure Mr. Casey has certainly attended also and he is probably more accurate on this forum than any other contributer.

Now don,t get me wrong I actually enjoy the company of the eggheads particularly when two or more are in the same room. Its always very entertaining to watch the inevitable disagreements and arguments. So thank you.

John

May you always have sufficient power to 'Rip the Anvil out of the Water'

_____________________________

"Keep your controllines tight"

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 27

Won't go airborne!!! - 7/18/2003 1:30:58 AM   
JimCasey



Posts: 1558
Joined: 3/4/2002
From: Cookeville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		>> I have lately started removing the water rudders from my floats. When I build a new airplane I do not include them. I have found that the newer aircraft have such monstrous air rudders, that a water rudder is not needed. <<

I watched an EAA videotape called "Wonderful World of Floats" and they take you through the Seaplne rating school at Brown's seaplane base.

They show you how to steer an airplane on the water with a breeze by using the elevator and throttle.

With the throttle at idle and the elevator neutralized, the plane will weathervane into the wind.

With full UP elevator and just enough throttle that the plane is standing on the tail of the floats but not on step, it will go downwind.

With a little less throttle, you can find a point where it goes crosswind, and you steer with the throttle. More for downwind, less for upwind. Hold the upwind wing down. caveat: Proverse yaw with aileron input can help you turn if necessary. THe plane turns toward the more heavily loaded float.

9 out of every six r/c seaplane flyers will just say "It needs more water rudder". These guys tend to disappear taxiing downwind when they can't get the plane to pivot around the HUGE water rudders taking a big bite of water 'WAY behind the center of lateral area. The full-size seaplanes in the film just retract the water rudders, and snap around into the wind so fast it'll make your nose bleed. This is not a widely-known technique, but all it is is "sailing".

Break out the granite and chisels again:
If your motor is running, you can drive a seaplane anywhere you want it to go, without water rudders. If your motor is NOT running, it does not matter.

I have been playing with a SPAD on 7-year old BJ floats. I taxi around in the wind with no water rudders, but it works so well nobody notices. I was doing the downwind taxi at about 1/3 throttle, and some moron said "Them seaplanes need more power, don't they?". So i chopped the throttle, it snapped around into the wind, and I took off in 30 feet.

_____________________________

Jim Casey/Seaplane Nerd
http://www.smilesandwags.com/Floats.html

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 28

Thank you - 7/18/2003 1:39:37 AM   
jrf


 

Posts: 2389
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Well, you've answered my question. You do think that full scale aerodynamics apply to models. (sigh)

Perhaps your 15 pound, 91 four-stroke powered 1/4 scale cub is closer to full-scale than I would have guessed.

I want to be there when you try to fly it at 17 MPH, though.

For the average sport flyer, whose float planes, like their land planes, tend to have either flat bottom or symetrical airfoils and power loading of 3 to 6 lb per hp, the optimum setup would be somewhat different.

Jim

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 29

Won't go airborne!!! - 7/18/2003 6:11:28 AM   
JimCasey



Posts: 1558
Joined: 3/4/2002
From: Cookeville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		>>Well, you've answered my question. You do think that full scale aerodynamics apply to models. (sigh) <<

Read more carefully Kemosabe. I think that float setup is essentially similar.

>>Perhaps your 15 pound, 91 four-stroke powered 1/4 scale cub is closer to full-scale than I would have guessed. <<

Actually, I fly a 10-pound Senior Telemaster that is bashed to look like a Beaver. And it is set up just like the Cub and Glasair pics I posted. Although it will take off in 8 feet, I like to give it 1/3 throttle and take off in 300 feet, then climb out everso gently with a trail of droplets falling off the floats to leave a faint trail in the mirror smooth surface of the pond. Armando's strong hands grasped her shoulders as he looked deeply into her chocolate brown eyes. His steely gaze penetrated to her very soul. She trembled, and her heaving bosom thundered against her peasant blouse with the sound of her racing heart. "Armando", she whispered, "What do you think of my decalage? "

Ok enough of that.

>>I want to be there when you try to fly it at 17 MPH, though. <<

Gimmee a 10 kt headwind and I'll HOVER the sumbitch.

_____________________________

Jim Casey/Seaplane Nerd
http://www.smilesandwags.com/Floats.html

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 30

Won't go airborne!!! - 7/18/2003 8:43:11 AM   
JohnBuckner



Posts: 3935
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Kingman, AZ, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimCasey
[B Armando's strong hands grasped her shoulders as he looked deeply into her chocolate brown eyes. His steely gaze penetrated to her very soul. She trembled, and her heaving bosom thundered against her peasant blouse with the sound of her racing heart. "Armando", she whispered, "What do you think of my decalage? " [/QUOTE]

LOL Well said JC

John

_____________________________

"Keep your controllines tight"

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 31

Try this - 7/20/2003 8:11:14 PM   
onewinglow


 

Posts: 208
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Lewiston, ID, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a site that might help you.
http://jcasey02.home.gate.net/FLOAT%20SELECTION%20AND%20FINE%20TUNING.html

I would advise getting a Robart Incedence meter and a torpedo level. Might be easer to set up correct wing to float incedence.

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 32

Won't go airborne!!! - 7/21/2003 1:04:32 AM   
JimCasey



Posts: 1558
Joined: 3/4/2002
From: Cookeville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		The ACE website shows the SSUltimate rated for a .10 to .20, so as long as you use a .25 based on the same casting as a .20 it should weigh about the same. Keep it light. That's one of the main differences between airplanes and manhole covers. Manhole covers are heavy. The wind NEVER blows hard enough to lift manhole covers.

Floats should be 22-24", and there is a 22" set advertised at http://foamfloats.com/

_____________________________

Jim Casey/Seaplane Nerd
http://www.smilesandwags.com/Floats.html

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 33

Won't go airborne!!! - 7/25/2003 1:50:37 PM   
badrul


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/25/2003
From: Kuala LumpurW. Persekutuan, MALAYSIA
Status: offline 		Very nice plane and float. Hope you can fly it soon.

(in reply to Captain Solo)
       Post #: 34

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