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Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/26/2010 12:37 AM

Wonder

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Please spare me reading 4000+ posts on 160+ pages on these two helis.

I had an E-flight MCX that I found to be boring so I bought a MSR.
The MSR was not boring, but when I tried to fly it outside the least little breeze would blow it away.
I now would like to get a heli that I can fly outside.

So my questions would be:
1. Would the Big Lama be as boring as the MCX?
2. Would the FP be as easy to fly as the MSR?
3. Is there a better choice for what I want to do.

I am not interested in 3-D and cp has to many little parts.
I want something simple I can fly out of the box without a lot of tinkering.

Thank you,
TW

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/26/2010 3:51 AM

Digital Don

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I'm in a similar situation.

I owned a CX2 (like a 'bigger' mCX) previously and while it was fun for a while, it's limitations soon became obvious. I currently have an mSR and a Honey Bee FP V2.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes. All coaxials have the same limitations due to the design.

2. The mSR is realtively easy to fly and it's great in a large space like a gym. The Honey Bee FP V2 is NOT as easy to fly as the mSR. In fact, even though I was able to get a stable hover the very first flight, I felt like I was starting all over. Once I 'master' it though, it has more potential than the mSR.

3. If you find something, let me know!

I also have some concerns about all the 'little pieces" of collective pitch helicopters, but it appears that they are the 'real' answer to outdoor flight. I've been looking at the Esky Honey Bee CP3 which is sort of a 6 channel version of the Honey Bee FP V2 with a CP head and direct drive tail. It's the same price as the FP so when I feel comfortable flying my current Honey Bee FP, maybe I'll give one a try.

Don

< Message edited by Digital Don -- 3/26/2010 11:16 AM >

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/26/2010 3:59 AM

Ddaddy

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After just 3 months, this is the conclusion I came to, "...but it appears that they (CP) are the 'real' answer to outdoor flight."

But even with a B400 and BSR, I still fly my BOL...it's relaxing like and old lover whereas the CP's are an exciting new adventure.

Heck, get both...you can't have to many lovers can you..I mean heli's ;

Ken

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/26/2010 9:21 AM

aircrash

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The big Lama even if it`s a big, heavy and powerful bird it does not like wind.
The honeybee V2 is light and small sized bird. Does not like it either.
A CP bird, 450 size, is big, heavy and powerful and can stand wind. But as you said you`ll be messing with a difficult to fly, repair and adjust bird.

If you like to fly at some breeze then try the honeybee V2 along with low pitch blades, so you have higher head speed. Now those blades need to be paired with a more powerful motor.
It may do the trick for you, it may not.

Sure you`ll get more flying time from Big Lama even if you don`t fly at wind. As you`ll fly more than repair. Then it`s the honeybee V2 and last is a Belt-CP, that you will repair more than fly.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 3:05 AM

Wonder

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It is not that I want to fly in the wind, but if I wait for a dead still day to fly, it's not happening!

I bought the CX3 first. It was to big to fly in the house and would not fly outside at all, so I bought the mcx to fly inside.

After the MSR I wanted to get the FP, but for a few dollars more I got the King-3 with brushless motor, belt driven tail rotor, and better electronics.
I thought if I did not flip the 3-D switch I would be alright. It did not take long to find out I did not like working on all the little dinky parts.

They say the King-3 is more stable than the FP, if that is the case I don't know if I want to try the FP.
Maybe if I use the low pitch blades with the better motor that aircrash suggested.

I just know that I don't want to keep buying more helis and then sell them because I don't like them.

TW

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 4:08 AM

pgroom_68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wonder
...
Maybe if I use the low pitch blades with the better motor that aircrash suggested.
I just know that I don't want to keep buying more helis and then sell them because I don't like them

Hey TW,

Welcome to my world.......

My Brief History: Walkera 36 x 2, Walkera DragonFly #4 x 2, Esky Dauphin x 2, a foray into "Hybrids", Esky Lama4 x 3, Esky Lama3 (scroll down for video - not me

) x 1, Esky HBFPv2 x 2, Esky Big Lama x 2, Walkera CB180D (+ the many, many parts to fix/upgrade etc etc etc).
All I can say is that the journey IS definitely worth it..... The chills you get when you finally can fly about placing your model exactly where you want when you want and how you want is well worth it!!!

Peter

P.S. Spiros' idea of using low pitch blades and higher kV motor to produce higher head speed (and more stability in a breeze as a result) is worth looking into..........

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 4:42 AM

Wonder

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So Peter, having flown both the Big Lama and the HBFPv2, which one will fly better outside?
Will I get bored with the Lama and how hard is it to learn to fly the HBFPv2?
I am leaning toward the Lama knowing I can fly it, but I know I really want the FP, just don't know if I can fly it.

TW

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 5:05 AM

pgroom_68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wonder
So Peter, having flown both the Big Lama and the HBFPv2, which one will fly better outside?
Will I get bored with the Lama and how hard is it to learn to fly the HBFPv2?
I am leaning toward the Lama knowing I can fly it, but I know I really want the FP, just don't know if I can fly it.

Hey again TW,

That is a toughie!

The Big Lama definitely hovers better outdoors (& indoors) - but you must follow the guidelines re. DON'T FLY IT IN WINDS ABOVE 5mph if you want to maintain a non-crashed, well-balanced (non-shaky) bird

The HBFPv2 has its advantages also. It is also easier to hover than the HBFP (original), and is easier to maintain FF - even if it is just large circuits in front of you. It is also a crowd-pleaser. It will do NEARLY EVERYTHING that a more expensive CP can do - except inverted flight - but at a much slower pace (good for slow reactions like mine

)
The parts (for WHEN you do a hard landing

) are readily available for both now - so there is no real advantage of one over the other.......

Peter

P.S. You can't go wrong with a BOL - just don't take stupid risks (as I did

) and hit the fence/tree/dog/other - this will maintain a perfect balanced bird.
P.P.S. I now own 3 - as I've just bought another (couldn't wait)...

I am on a mission to get the message out to the right people that We want a 2.4G BOL without Transmitter released a.s.a.p

< Message edited by pgroom_68 -- 3/27/2010 6:12 AM >

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 6:00 AM

Ddaddy

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Also if you wanted to spend some $ to upgrade the Big Lama with a brushless motor, adding longer Lama blades from a Walker Lama along with a heavier battery to conter the lift will give more weight and increased stability in wind...albeit, not much.

Wind is 1 reason I got a CP...I can and have flown the BOL in wind, but it's more of a fight than flying. I did 2 packs today on the B400 with 12mph wind with some gusts. Don't get me wrong, you have to adjust but it does react fast and does what you tell it....something the BOL doesn't do in wind without a lot of ....ummm...luck?

Seriously, get both at $100 each you can enjoy the advantages of both and increase your skills.

Ken

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 6:14 AM

pgroom_68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ddaddy
...
Seriously, get both at $100 each you can enjoy the advantages of both and increase your skills.

...good point!!

Peter

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 7:47 AM

karlik

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I have the Lama V4 and the Falcon 40 fp V1.

Don't know how the Lama 4 compares to the big Lama, but the V4 doesn't like the wind. It's too light and that full body fuselage gives it too much surface area for the weight. It wants to go in the direction of the slightest gust, weathervane, and make real quick alt changes, The slower respose time of a coax means it needs lots of room to recover before it hits something in even the slightest breeze. I only use it for orientation training (other than that it's kind of boreing to fly) and I can do that on the sim, so I really don't fly it much. If you really want to learn to fly and can't get both then get either the honeybee or a cp. The Lama can't handle much wind and is so tame and easy to fly it becomes a fun toy in a short time. My brother can fly the lama around for a full pack. He longest flight with the falcon is about 2.5 seconds.

The Falcon is the same as the Honeybee V1. Since it and the V2 are both fp and are pretty much same weight and size I think the wind question will be about the same for both. I pretty much just step outside and look at the trees, grass and bushes and decide if I want to fly - then I come in and check weather.com to see what the actual wind speed is. They get our wind/temp/etc from McChord AFB which is about 10 miles from here so it should be pretty accurate.

If I really want to fly I'll go tail in up to around 7 - 11 mph. Much more than that and it's just too exciting for me and tends to result in some repairs. I fly in the front yard and have trees, bushes and a fence that limits how much room I have to recover. If you have a bgger flying are you may be able to do a little more wind. Depending on your skill level your limit may be a bit lower or higher than mine, but this probably a good ballpark number.

I'm working on side in... left is just ok, right needs lots of work. The point where I just won't or can't try any side in is about 3 - 4 mph. I'm sure as my skilll level improves side in will get to the same point as tail in, but I don't think it'll ever get above that 11/12 mph limit.

So as far as wind the Honeybee would be a much better choice than the Lama. But as far as the honeybee vs a bigger cp... If wind is your only concern go bigger.

Other things to consider is that honeybee can survive a crash that would end up with repairs on most bigger cp helis. With the honeybee you'll have more downtime due to wind but less downtime due to repairs and the repairs on an fp are easier and cheaper than a cp.

Most people I've known who got an fp move up to a cp right about the time they get a grip on FF flight. That means the honeybee would probably be a trainer and end up on the shelf at some point.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/27/2010 1:04 PM

aircrash

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quote:

ORIGINAL: karlik

Other things to consider is that honeybee can survive a crash that would end up with repairs on most bigger cp helis. With the honeybee you'll have more downtime due to wind but less downtime due to repairs and the repairs on an fp are easier and cheaper than a cp.

That`s the point. One way or another you`ll get in no flying. Even if he could fly quite good a CP then he would crash, that`s the rule. You fly, you crash.

As far to the wind, in the flag measurement a Big Lama can fly when a flag is moving a bit, but not waving.
But the same stands true for a honeybee.

He can try the Big Lama with an xtreme extended shaft.
That`s the only upgrade that is actually needed. The other is more like upgrades to make it customized, mostly in looks.
By the time you buy it then buy some useful spare parts, as a couple set of blades (maybe one more set of upper ones), one flybar and a couple of outer shafts.
Then you tape the fuselage with clear tape and it`s durable like a tiger.

There is also the Walkera lama 400D. Which is even more bigger and heavy. But I don`t know anything about its electronics, how good or bad they are. I know it`s more expensive and in addition its parts cost more.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/28/2010 5:54 AM

pgroom_68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aircrash
He can try the Big Lama with an xtreme extended shaft.
That`s the only upgrade that is actually needed. The other is more like upgrades to make it customized, mostly in looks.
By the time you buy it then buy some useful spare parts, as a couple set of blades (maybe one more set of upper ones), one flybar and a couple of outer shafts.
Then you tape the fuselage with clear tape and it`s durable like a tiger.
There is also the Walkera lama 400D. Which is even more bigger and heavy. But I don`t know anything about its electronics, how good or bad they are. I know it`s more expensive and in addition its parts cost more.

Hey again Spiros,

The only experience I have had of actually flying one of these is indoors in a large hall at our heli-meet. It wasn't very good

Also another flier on the Big Lama thread ages ago said (and I quote) "The best thing about the Walkera Lama 400D, apart from its looks, is its blades" [unquote]. Good enough for me to avoid it.

Peter

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/28/2010 6:25 AM

Wonder

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I think Ken has the right idea of buying both.

I could take the Lama camping with me on weekends to fly in limited space.
Then fly the FP at home and at work on lunch break where there is more room.

I thought of doing that before, but after buying and selling 4 helis already in the last 6 months, I was a little leery of buying 2 more.

Thanks for all the input and feel free to post more if you think of anything else.

I will probably wait another week to decide before I order.
I am now leaning toward buying the BOL first then maybe next month get the FPv2.

Tim

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/28/2010 7:28 AM

pgroom_68

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wonder
I think Ken has the right idea of buying both.
I could take the Lama camping with me on weekends to fly in limited space.
Then fly the FP at home and at work on lunch break where there is more room.
I thought of doing that before, but after buying and selling 4 helis already in the last 6 months, I was a little leery of buying 2 more.
Thanks for all the input and feel free to post more if you think of anything else.
I will probably wait another week to decide before I order.
I am now leaning toward buying the BOL first then maybe next month get the FPv2.

Hey again Tim,

...sounds like a plan!

If I had my time over I would start with the BOL also - that is why I just ordered a fresh one yesterday

Peter

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/28/2010 12:29 PM

aircrash

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wonder

I will probably wait another week to decide before I order.
I am now leaning toward buying the BOL first then maybe next month get the FPv2.

Tim

Hi Tim,

If you plan to buy both then I think it`s better to do it at once.
You`ll save some shipping cost.
Buy some spare parts also and don`t forget about an xtreme extended shaft. You`ll save even more shipping cost.
If you plan to order from HK then check Miracle-Mart.

Spiros

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/29/2010 8:34 AM

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OK, I'm fairly new to all of this but have been reading a LOT or forum posts lately.

What is a BOL? Is it a Blade OL... something? None of their models I can think of would complete that acronym.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/29/2010 8:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brianm72

OK, I'm fairly new to all of this but have been reading a LOT or forum posts lately.

What is a BOL? Is it a Blade OL... something? None of their models I can think of would complete that acronym.

Big Outdoor Lama by Esky. Arguably the best outdoor coax on the market currently. Check the thread on this very site....great people with even greater proven ideas.

Ken

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/29/2010 11:31 AM

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Hey Brian & Ken,

Sorry for the confusion - but on the box it doesn't say Big Lama (nor Esky 500 Lama) anywhere so Fernando & I thought we would make up a name about a year ago.......

Peter

P.S. It says "Coaxial 100% RTF" on one face, & "Co-axial Electric RC Helicopter" on another.....

P.P.S. Ken is correct! RCUniverse.com is the best site for beginners and we don't judge - just try to help

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/30/2010 4:49 AM

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Wonder,
I suggest training with free heli simualtor (FMS or Helisimrc) then indoors with Esky Big Lama. Then learn Esky HoneyBee FP v2 indoors then replace main blades with Xtreme fiber blades and clip one inch off tips. This will increase head speed which will allow better wind penitration. To compensate for increased head authority change indirect drive tail motor to Xtreme direct drive tail setup. There are couple of modifications (mods) that are very helpful for the HBFP - “fuse mod” and “O ring mod” - google them.
You can fly HBFP so modified (not hard to do – and fun) in 3-5 MPH wind.
Luck,
Vince

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 3/31/2010 11:07 PM

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If yo udon't want to work on the tiny parts..then probably not a god idea to get into them.

They take maintenance just like a big heli.... even the coaxials.

I've fine tuned, learned and played with my Dauphin coaxial to the point I can leave it in a hover inside my garage, go outside and take a piss... having my eyes off of it for like 20 seconds.

I can do a head level nose-in hover, back it up and flip it the opposite direction while doing full yaw spins.

I agree... these coaxials do not like wind....my only crash was when I took my little Daughin outside just once....crashed in seconds from a slight breeze that blew it al out of shape. I was considering a Big Lama, but keep hearing that it to sucks outside....I don't want anymore inside helis.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 4/1/2010 5:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pilot_Guy
If yo udon't want to work on the tiny parts..then probably not a god idea to get into them.
They take maintenance just like a big heli.... even the coaxials.
I've fine tuned, learned and played with my Dauphin coaxial to the point I can leave it in a hover inside my garage, go outside and take a piss... having my eyes off of it for like 20 seconds.
I can do a head level nose-in hover, back it up and flip it the opposite direction while doing full yaw spins.
I agree... these coaxials do not like wind....my only crash was when I took my little Daughin outside just once....crashed in seconds from a slight breeze that blew it al out of shape. I was considering a Big Lama, but keep hearing that it to sucks outside....I don't want anymore inside helis.

Hey again Pilot_Guy,

Not quite correct - mate. The Big Lama is GREAT for outdoor flight - BUT only in light wind! It can take more wind than a smaller coax like the Dauphin (which is definitely an indoor bird, as you found out

), but due to the low (approx 1800 rpm) head speed and (a little) due also to the size of the bird, any breeze >5mph will affect your flight and you need experience to keep it safely in the air!

Peter

P.S. This is why we dubbed it a BOL (Big Outdoor Lama)

P.P.S. Not very many people have access to a large enough indoor space to fly a BOL anyway................

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 4/4/2010 6:14 PM

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Check out the promo for the soon to be released SR by E-flite. Horizon has a good review of it on their website. Looks like it may satisfy the needs of many for something to really fly, inside and out (again in light wind). The coax will not allow you really gain any flight training if you plan to move up into heli flight. The SR appears to have been designed with the beginner pilot in mind. Mods to the rotor blades and a Tx that is really set up well. The BOL has its place, but most pilots will get bored fairly easily with it. So, before you buy, check out the new SR. I have mine on order.

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RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 4/4/2010 7:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Dutch
Check out the promo for the soon to be released SR by E-flite. Horizon has a good review of it on their website. Looks like it may satisfy the needs of many for something to really fly, inside and out (again in light wind). The coax will not allow you really gain any flight training if you plan to move up into heli flight. The SR appears to have been designed with the beginner pilot in mind. Mods to the rotor blades and a Tx that is really set up well. The BOL has its place, but most pilots will get bored fairly easily with it. So, before you buy, check out the new SR. I have mine on order.

Hey Old Dutch,

No thanks. Not really my cup of tea!

Peter

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HK-450GT (Incognito Mosquito), DX6i (highly modded) ...check out www.RC450.com

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(in reply to Old Dutch)

Post #: 24

RE: Big Lama or Honey Bee FP V2 - 4/11/2010 12:41 AM

Leethetreeguy

Posts: 73
Score: 100
Joined: 6/6/2009
Last Login: 7/31/2010
From: Winder, GA, USA
Status: offline

I fly my BOL outside and inside. But it has been fully modded out with Skytec parts and brushless motors. I make and sell a true extended inner shaft for it on my website. I call it the "Wondershaft". No more blade or flybar strikes since. It is my favorite copter to date. I can do manuvers just like a fp. Including banked turns. Happy Flying. Lee

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(in reply to pgroom_68)

Post #: 25

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