RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 7:50 AM

sandyjain

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Thank you Crash & Egan..I will not be scared of getting the SWB/ MPI arms now.
Another thing...Have you added another tray in the fuselage for the electronics ? I plan on using a Powerbox evolution and there is just not enough space for it + Rx + 2 x A123 Batts after the Rudder Servo.
Also where does the pilot sit ? In my canopy there is only a X member - rest is hollowed out ?

Thanx in advance...

sandy

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 8:03 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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Dude you really dont need a power box in this plane. A standard receiver is more than capable of delivering the Amps that a 50cc will draw w/o a power distribution system even w/ every servo @ stall torque. If you want to use the powerbox you will need to put a tray in for it. I would not glue the tray in until you get an idea on where you CG is. This plane tends to come in tail heavy so most things will have 2 be stuffed in the front. As far as the pilot I guess he will sit wherever you build a mount for him

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 8:28 AM

T3beatz

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Hows that plane coming along Dan?

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 8:32 AM

sandyjain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crash-n-Burn

Dude you really dont need a power box in this plane. A standard receiver is more than capable of delivering the Amps that a 50cc will draw w/o a power distribution system even w/ every servo @ stall torque. If you want to use the powerbox you will need to put a tray in for it. I would not glue the tray in until you get an idea on where you CG is. This plane tends to come in tail heavy so most things will have 2 be stuffed in the front. As far as the pilot I guess he will sit wherever you build a mount for him

Crash Iam using an Assan Rx. not too sure what its current capacity is. 2ndy I have the sensor switch with it and so do not need any other. If I were to use only the Rx, I will need a batt share or something to allow 2 batts and 2 switches. What in your opinion will be the current draw of the servos? I am using Power HD DS120M x 5.
Further I just saw your build pics and see that you have mounted a tray for the the regulators. I will do something like that. And thanx for the tip on the CG - I will 1st do the CG now and then decide on the position of the electronics.

cheers..

sandy

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 9:22 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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As far as current draw your idle current should be 0.00 to 0.05 amps / servo , your full deflection draw should be about 0.6 amps / servo. Stalled out your servos will prob draw at max 1.5 amp each which would be over the top beyond worst case scenario. For routine flying your whole system will draw about 3 amp MAX, with very high speed extreme maneuvers you may have a spike up to 7 amps but it would only be for a split second if that. A123's are great batteries but there "high amp output" is largely wasted on most set ups b/u planes simply dont pull 10 - 20 amps on a regular basis. If a modelers set up is pulling high amps on a regular basis then they set it up wrong for sure. If your Rx is any good it should be able to crank out 20 amp peaks w/o a problem.

If you want to use 1 switch you can use a Fromeco Wolverine switch, it is 2 switches in 1 and has a battery share circuit in it, it is what I use.

http://www.fromeco.org/products/04frcwo-434s/default.aspx

T3 I have the parts for the LG rebuild cut out and done I just need to get gluing !

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/12/2010 10:05 AM

T3beatz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sandyjain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crash-n-Burn

Dude you really dont need a power box in this plane. A standard receiver is more than capable of delivering the Amps that a 50cc will draw w/o a power distribution system even w/ every servo @ stall torque. If you want to use the powerbox you will need to put a tray in for it. I would not glue the tray in until you get an idea on where you CG is. This plane tends to come in tail heavy so most things will have 2 be stuffed in the front. As far as the pilot I guess he will sit wherever you build a mount for him

Crash Iam using an Assan Rx. not too sure what its current capacity is. 2ndy I have the sensor switch with it and so do not need any other. If I were to use only the Rx, I will need a batt share or something to allow 2 batts and 2 switches. What in your opinion will be the current draw of the servos? I am using Power HD DS120M x 5.
Further I just saw your build pics and see that you have mounted a tray for the the regulators. I will do something like that. And thanx for the tip on the CG - I will 1st do the CG now and then decide on the position of the electronics.

cheers..

sandy

Dan is right sandy... you can save the Powerbox for a bigger build. 35%+ but if you just want it in there cause it looks good and you want to be assured that you have the power capacity by all means use it.

I have the Assan system also (not using it in my current 50cc setup) but I'm using the FrSky system with 2 6cell batteries and 2 switches plugged directly into the RX. It works and its simple. The Assan system should be able to handle the current that a 50cc pulls with no problems.

Get to gluin then!! I doesn't look like theres going to be any flying this week anywayz because the weathers pretty bad. You should have your plane ready by next week I guess. I'm thinking of putting my smoke system in for the heck of it. I just don't want to let it sit around, I'll make it detachable like you did with the Extra a while back.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/19/2010 9:59 PM

sandyjain

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Gentleman I have smoke !!!!!
This is just diesel (HSD) being pumped into the muffler using a powerbox pump.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/19/2010 10:30 PM

sandyjain

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My Edge is finally ready and tomorrow is the maiden - 7 hrs. from now !!

my final set up is:

1. Peakmodel type ARF Edge 540 bought in India.
2. DLE 55 engine, with optical isolated ignition cut off. Manual choke
3. 5 x Power HD 120M servos on the surfaces using stock provided bolt on horns.
4. Futaba 3152 servo for throttle.
5. Stock fuel tank and another similar for smoke. But am working on coke bottle conversions as well !!
6. Powerbox evolution power expander. Had to use it as my Rx did not have enough ports - I need 9 with ignition and smoke.
7. Assan 8 Ch. Rx - long range V2
8. A123 2S- 2300 mAH X 2 batts for Rx and smoke.
9. Hydrimax 4.8V 2000 mAH NiMh for ignition.
10. Gasoline with 3% ( 1:32) LawnBoy Ashless.
11. Neat Diesel for smoke. Looking around for more recipes as we do not get smoke oil in India !!

I have bolted (screws) on the canopy as I learnt from you guys - amongst the so many other tips that I leart and followed.

Thank you T3, Egan, & Dan(C&B) - I owe this build to you guys.....

Sandy

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/19/2010 10:48 PM

Eganwp

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Looks really good Sandy!!!! I can't wait to see what you think. You'll have to weigh it and let us know. I'm interested what the v1 comes in at, of course it's also going to be a bit more with smoke, but I think you're going to love it!

Only suggestion I can make (which is actually pretty hard to tell for sure) is to make sure you secure all your connections. I use floss (for your teeth) and put a couple loops around the JR connectors, then heat shrink them. The heat shrink is overkill as the floss itself works perfectly by itself. For the connections I take apart often I use those plastic secure couplers (ie. aileron connections that I plug in when the wings are on). Also make sure you've locktite'd everything that bolts into metal!

Can't wait to hear the flight report Sandy! My needles are HS: 1 3/8; LS: 1 turn out at 3200ft asl for reference. Just don't do what I did and go way too rich on the bottom end and dead stick! (At our elevation, 1.5 turns on the LSN is WAY too rich for a starting point). I found it way easier to just remove the cowl and tune the LSN once for the highest rpm. You basically want it as lean as you can without throttle-up hessitation or you'll get a ton of burbling in the air. Anyway, enough jabbering! Good luck Sandy!

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/19/2010 11:29 PM

sandyjain

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Hey Egan,

Thanx for the thumbs up man.... I need all the assurance :-) cannot get to sleep even tho its 0100 hrs. and wake-up time is 0500 !!

Delhi I think is 200M ASL and so far the stock settings are working fine on the ground. 1500-1600 idle and 7300-7400 full throttle on a 22x8 XOAR.

The weight without fuel is 6.6 Kg. ~ 14.5 lbs., so AUW with smoke should be 15.5 lbs or so - how is that ? This is my 5th model since I started 1.5 yrs back and have never been so particular about weight !!

The CG is 123 - 125 mm from leading edge - as per the manual it should be 118 - but I checked without the cowl. With the cowl I expect to be bang on 118 or so. I think the smoke pump right up in the front helps - as the smoke tank and the diesel also.

The permanent connections are all heat shrinked tho I did not use floss - you guys never mentioned that !! The
open-able ones are secured with the yellow clips I got from Tower. I have made extensive use of double sided velcro to secure the tanks & batts. Stuffed them in place using foam. The ignition is velcroed and cable tied as is the ignition batt.

My wiring needs management - and i need to get the little rubber foam supports you guys use - I tried making them myself and have used them in the elevator wiring.

The rudder pull pull cable is crossed - never could understand which is better parallel or crossed !!

The bolts are all loctited and nylocked - wherever possible. I have run 4 tanks on the ground without the wings initially and today with all the surfaces & canopy in place. Checked every bolt after the run and so far everything is tight enough. Will do this check after every flight for the 1st few - just to make sure. This gasser sure vibrates the hell out of everything !!

What are the throws you recommend ? I am down to 50% rates and -50% expo for normal. I have them all on a single 3-way switch. 1 switch and I get the higher rates in all 3 surfaces and 2 more settings - idle up 1 and idle up2 as in helis !! At 100% ATV i get 45*- 50* deflection. I'll check before the flight tomorrow.

I have expo'ed the throttle curve to get a linear response through the traverse from idle to full. At mid throttle I get 4000 RPM or so. Without the expo the 1st 50% travel of the stick took the engine from 1600 to 5500 and the balance 50% from 5500 to 7300. I somehow did not like that.

Am I missing something ? let me know....

Thanx n Regards

sandy

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 12:34 AM

Eganwp

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Lol that sucks you can't sleep! I know, I was soooooooooo excited to maiden too! That's a nice light setup! You're going to love it. It'll really float!

As per your CG, I would double check after you get the cowl on. I know that both T3 and I reported the same thing in our planes flying REALLY tail heavy on maiden, even though we weren't that far back from the CG mark. I probably maidened around the 125mm mark and it climbs inverted on a 45. I like my planes more tail heavy than most, but it made it so pitch sensative that if you even thought about using elevator the plane would respond. 1 click of trim literally made it jump! lol To put your mind at easy, I'd throw a couple ounces of lead weights on the firewall for maiden just in case. You definately don't want to be sorry! You can pull em off after you check it that first flight anyway.

You're heat shrink'd connections will be fine! Nice work.

Crossed vs straight pull-pull really only depends on the geometry. With our planes/setups and using the offset servo arm, a crossed setup works best. It really just boils down to which configuration doesn't allow the wires to drag along the side of the fuse!

If it were me, I'd turn down the rates. Unless you're a really good pilot like T3 and crash!

I thought I was pretty descent as I 3D smaller planes and always go for max throws, but man is it a lot scarier doing anything 3D related with these big ones. I think it's just me and the pucker factor though! lol. I've really toned down my throws now, with more of a sport setup, and my low rates are my IMAC settings (10* elevator, 20* ailerons, 35* rudder). Much more fun to fly when the throws aren't a scary 50*! lol. Really personal choice and what you plan on doing though. I also always use 25-30% expo on low rates, 30-40% on high and usually around 50% on rudder. Just personal taste though. 30-35% gives a pretty linear feel to me.

Yes, with gas you'll need a good throttle graph. I really wish my radio did this.

I had to do it mechanically best I could. Without going into a lot of detail, gassers at 50% on the throttle are closer to 75% engine rpm due the the venturi design in the carb. 1/4 is closer to 1/2, etc. So you'll want a pretty flat throttle curve for the first half if possible!

Can't wait to hear about it!

Eganwp

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 5:52 AM

T3beatz

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Lookin good Sandy, every thing looks good, your gonna love that engine, I'm loving mine, the engine puts out gobs of power even with that 22x8 on its gonna be a monster at 15.5lbs! Right now with my DL-55 with a Xoar 22x10 I'm getting 7200rpms I just tached it today. (with a Zinger22x8 I was at about 7500-7600). I've had about 2.5 gallons through it so far and it hasn't missed a beat.

The plane looks good, my smoke system is just sittin there on the desk, I have to get around to installing it pretty soon.

I hope all goes well with the maiden, I'll post some new video that I got tonight.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 12:22 PM

sandyjain

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Hey Guys.....maiden'ed the Edge 540 40cc today...

The engine gave us some trouble in firing up, even tho I ran 1 tank yesterday evening, but I guess it is still my lack of experience with these gassers. It would just not fire for close to 30 min. - finally I asked my buddy Allan to take the throttle full up and I flicked a couple of times - And it came to life. I guess I did not prime it enough!!

The take off was simple, no-nonsense and wow no trim required. The engine packs such a pump that I realized after take off that I was still on 70% throttle. I guess I was moving it up and the plane took off at 70% and I never bothered to take it any further - I guess I was just too excited !!

The initial throws set up by me at 50% were further reduced by my buddy & guru, but into the flight I moved to idle up 1 i.e. 50% throws and that was comfortable.

The 1st landing was a little short but no problem. For the 2nd flight I filled the smoke tank with diesel. I had checked it out the previous day.
This flight was the same except for little less shake in the knees & thumbs !! and the smoke system worked.... The diesel smoke is white, dense but does not stay. All the while I moved from 25% to 70% throttle only. Some gentle loops and rolls nothing more. Am getting still used to the power on demand but otherwise gentle as a trainer' behavior.The 2nd landing was again going to be short but I corrected and landed with more grace!!

This has been a gr8 experience for me guys, learning from you and getting to implement it.

I am trying to post a video here - it is a very amateurish attempt - but on Sunday i will make sure the camera is in the hands of a better photographer !!

Please post some videos of your models as well.

Cheers..

sandy

< Message edited by sandyjain -- 5/20/2010 1:39 PM >

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 12:52 PM

sandyjain

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< Message edited by sandyjain -- 5/20/2010 1:36 PM >

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 2:11 PM

T3beatz

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Congrats on the maiden! the plane looks good and the smoke was nice. once you put the cowling on you may have to re-tune the engine a bit. Also when you were trying to start the engine was the Choke fully closed? Sometimes you may think it is but its not and the engine takes a long time to fire up.

I just finished editing my video, I'll upload it soon.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/20/2010 7:15 PM

Eganwp

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Looks good Sandy!!! Nice work on the smoke. I'm impressed for it being just diesel fuel. Now you got me wanting to put smoke on my bird as well, lol. Good flying and glad you enjoyed the maiden!

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/29/2010 1:21 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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Okay here are some pics of my repair, all I need to do is put the back of the tunnel on and cover over the new sheeting I put on the fuse. I made the tank floor removable for easier repairs in the future.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/29/2010 1:22 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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okay last ones

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/30/2010 4:31 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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Finished the repair, came out nice.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/30/2010 9:35 AM

T3beatz

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Good as new! Time for some Huckin! I'll probably try and get out to the field Wednesday if I can, I'm taking off Monday also but I might have to spend the whole day with the family.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/30/2010 10:47 AM

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Good job crash. Looks good. Now don't do it again! lol. I've been out a fair bit with mine lately, but the weather here is rediculous. It's snowed/rained the last 2 days?!!! Tonight I relocated my 2x a123 2300's up in the motor box as I'm sick of flying slightly tail heavy, lol. I think it'll be too much, but I'll find out Monday or so. Sandy, you been flyin yours?

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 5/30/2010 11:43 AM

Crash-n-Burn

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TJ My day off is Thursday not Wed. sorry but I got my schedule confused. I will call you tomorrow I am going to sleep now.

Also I have Monday afternoon free maybe we can huck i will call u tomorrow.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 6/28/2010 5:41 AM

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Here are some pics of my bird.

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 6/28/2010 5:48 AM

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More pics

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RE: Peak Model 50 CC Edge 540 T build - 6/28/2010 5:57 AM

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And some more...

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