RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (Full Version)

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claikens -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/23/2004 7:34:37 AM)

Two things. Are those external tanks you are talking about? And is the part number correct? I looked on Wing Mfg's web site and could not find anything that is part #109. I'm just wanting to clarify. Thanks




CorsairJock -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/23/2004 1:13:52 PM)

Flak,
Thanks, I appreciate hearing that this thread is being followed so closely, and hope to see lots of Corsairs this coming summer which have benefitted from this thread. As for being King Creo of Corsairs, well I must admit that there are others who know more about Corsairs than me, but I will accept your coronation nontheless.
As for a giant scale Corsair: I am working on a 1/7 scale F4U-1 ( 'Bird Cage', 71" span), which will be a faily accuare example of the ORIGINAL "Marine's Dream". I am hoping to have it ready for the Memorial Day weekend, so I can fly it at the Terre Haute, IN Warbird Day Fly-In. This of course is not giant scale, sorry to report that my first giant scale will probably the 1/6 scale (86" span) Hellcat which I am building from plans, and hope to have ready for summer of 2005.

The tanks that I mentioned are the external drop tanks that were carried by late war F4U-1Ds and later models and into the Korean War. The label sez they are 15" long, 3" diameter. I don't have any scale drawings to compare them to, but have them eyeballed as being accurate size for 1/8 scale Corsairs. These are not the type which were carried by AAF fighters (Mustangs, P-47s, etc.) as those appear to be shorter than the type carried by Corsairs. NOTE: I apologize for an error I made in an earlier post: I stated the part number was #109, the correct part number IS (Wing Mfg.) AC901.
Wing Mg. has an extremely large amount of 'add on' and replacement parts (cowl, canopies, etc). Many are not listed on the web-site, but Dan (Dan Gipe, owner) has said that he is planning on updating his web-site. Take my word on these tanks, they are right for Corsairs (will probably work well with the H-9 Corsairs as well), and I will definately have them on mine by this summer. You will need to fabricate the pylons that they hang from, and I have no drawings on them either, only a Tamiya 1/48 scale model to 'copy' from. Send an e-mail to Dan (or call him if you prefer) if you want these tanks soon. Or, he will have some sets at the Toledo show.

Juice, if you are reading this: you really need at least one of these tanks also (there are many photos of carrier based Corsairs having just one of these tanks, hanging from the right wing pylon).




voyager_663rd -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/23/2004 2:11:51 PM)

Corsairjock, on Wing's site, the drop tank that is the 15" .60-.75 size is part AC901 not 109. Is this the same tank you are talking about (and that Claikins asked) ?

http://www.wingmfg.com/Pages/Wac3.html




CorsairJock -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/23/2004 3:56:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: voyager_663rd

Corsairjock, on Wing's site, the drop tank that is the 15" .60-.75 size is part AC901 not 109. Is this the same tank you are talking about (and that Claikins asked) ?

http://www.wingmfg.com/Pages/Wac3.html


I guess that is the same, mine do not have the "AC" on the label (see picture), AND make sure you don't get the smaller ones, which I see are listed as AC901A.

Also note that he has drop mechanisms for sale, which can drop these tanks and/ or bombs. I happen to have a pair of Vortac mechanisms which I plan to use, IF I can mount them properly on my completed wing. The Wing Mfg.drop mechanisms are 'some assembly required' type, and may not be all that scale (but then, niether are the Vortacs)




voyager_663rd -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (2/24/2004 1:20:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CorsairJock

I start out with this drawing of the tips as viewed from the front. What should become evident is that the outline of the top of the outer wing panels are absolutely straight from the root (of the outer panel/ wing fold line), until it rounds downward at the very end (tip) to meet the underside. This is true not only at the spar, but all the way across. In other words, you should be able to lay a straight edge on the spar, or the trailing edge, or the rear spar area (where flaps and ailerons meet the wing), and see no gap until the very end of the tip. Of the 2 Top Flite versions, the ‘red box’ is the worst, but both of them have the top drooping beginning several inches from the tips.
To correct the Gold Edition, wing ribs T-7 need to be modified (before assembly) by trimming about 1/8” all the way across the bottom, 1/32” from the upper spar notch, and 1/16” from the rear alignment tab. This should get you pretty close, you can check by assembling and using a straight edge to see if the tops of all ribs line up, all the way across. Some sanding (with a hobby/ straight sander) will be required to make T-7 be properly aligned with the other ribs. Making this correction will also add a slight washout effect, making tip stalls less likely. It is not necessary to bring the tips to a point as shown on the scale view. Doing so makes the mod more difficult, and will result in a tip that is more easily damaged. The option is yours. However, I do encourage you to at least make the top straight, and make yours closer to scale.

You should also add a piece of balsa about ¾” x ¾” x 1 1/2” long to the rear of the leading edge stock, into the ‘corner’, butting up against T-7 (if you have not yet sheeted the wing). Sand to match the airfoil, as you will be sheeting over this. This is needed because of the additional rounding of the leading edge profile which is needed for the next mod. Without it, the sheeting can be sanded too thin when the correct profile is done.


Couple of questions here regarding the left and right tip panels. I am getting confused about top and bottom and which way is up and which way is down. When I'm looking down on the plans, it says its the right wing tip panel.

1.If I build with the "tabs" on the bottom the FIRST time, I am building the RIGHT tip panel. Correct?

2)It says to cut a v-notch in the bottom spar (which when I'm building the right tip panel, is really on the BOTTOM (against the building board). RIGHT?

3)The open part of the V is pointing to the sky. RIGHT?

4)Skipping ahead to the left panel (which is built on the same view), the tabs are still on the bottom (against the building board) but now that tab-side is really the TOP of the wing. RIGHT and the V is now cut on the inside of the TOP spar, with the open V pointing down towards the building board (tabs are still against the building board). If the LEFT panel were completed at this stage, it could be flipped over and is identical (but mirror image) to the right tip panel. RIGHT?

5)In conclusion to these 4 questions, the right wing tip panel is built right side up and the left panel is built upside down (even though the tabs are always on the building board). RIGHT?

SECOND QUESTION (pics attached).

This concerns the addition of the 3/4 x 3/4 x 1 1/2" block. Pic one is a full view of this proposed setup. Pic 2 is a close up.

6)Is my location of this added block correct?

7) A close up of that area with the block opened up (for question purposes). Is the block supposed to be "centered" on the rib LE so that sanding takes place top and bottom of the block to match the airfoil?

With this block, I'm having a hard time visualizing just what it's supposed to do. Is it to provide additional support for the sheeting or is it supposed to replace some of the sheeting (that gets sanded through) due to the extra sanding thats needed to correct the shape of the wing tip?




kram51 -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (2/24/2004 1:56:42 AM)

1.If I build with the "tabs" on the bottom the FIRST time, I am building the RIGHT tip panel. Correct?
The "right" panel is built top down so that you're actually looking at the bottom of the wing panel on the board. If you're looking at the wing plan from the TE to the LE then the right wing tip will be on your left as you build.
2)It says to cut a v-notch in the bottom spar (which when I'm building the right tip panel, is really on the BOTTOM (against the building board). RIGHT?
NO, The bottom spar is actually on top because you're building the wing upside down.
3)The open part of the V is pointing to the sky. RIGHT?
Again, realize that the wing is upside down and the top is facing away from you. The V-notch points down to build the taper to the tip of the wing.
4)Skipping ahead to the left panel (which is built on the same view), the tabs are still on the bottom (against the building board) but now that tab-side is really the TOP of the wing. RIGHT and the V is now cut on the inside of the TOP spar, with the open V pointing down towards the building board (tabs are still against the building board). If the LEFT panel were completed at this stage, it could be flipped over and is identical (but mirror image) to the right tip panel. RIGHT?
NO, The left wing panel is built over the opposite plan. You must build with the tabs down on the board. Top Flite has given you two wing tip plans, one right, and one left. BOTH wing panels are built upside down. This is done to properly build in the wash out at the tips. Its very important that you take your time to get this right.
5)In conclusion to these 4 questions, the right wing tip panel is built right side up and the left panel is built upside down (even though the tabs are always on the building board). RIGHT?
NO, see above explanations.


I'll try to visualize your other questions and answer, if no one else does first! I'm glad you are asking questions. We'd much rather you do that and turn out a good built plane.

Mark




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:00:15 AM)

I have my manual in front of me but my version of the kit never added a block in that area. It could be that this is part of the revised plans from 1997. What is the step number that you're up to in the book? That would help to identify where you are in the process.

Mark




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:04:18 AM)

The plans show a left panel and a right panel. The print directly under them says to build the opposite wing panel on that plan. Right over the left and Left over the right.
Duh, I only finished this wing, the framing that is, a few months ago.

Mark




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:08:32 AM)

These should help . . .




voyager_663rd -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:29:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kram51

The plans show a left panel and a right panel. The print directly under them says to build the opposite wing panel on that plan. Right over the left and Left over the right.
Duh, I only finished this wing, the framing that is, a few months ago.

Mark


Well duh to me too. I only saw the "left over right" and "right over left" and didn't see the left wing tip in the pic above where I was working.

Your quote:

I have my manual in front of me but my version of the kit never added a block in that area. It could be that this is part of the revised plans from 1997. What is the step number that you're up to in the book? That would help to identify where you are in the process. unquote



The block I refer to is to correct the model wing tips so they more closely resemble the real bird. This mod is in post #31 of this thread by Corsairjock. So I am still puzzled as to location/purpose.

I have another question now (same post).

Quote:

To correct the Gold Edition, wing ribs T-7 need to be modified (before assembly) by trimming about 1/8” all the way across the bottom, 1/32” from the upper spar notch, and 1/16” from the rear alignment tab. This should get you pretty close, you can check by assembling and using a straight edge to see if the tops of all ribs line up, all the way across. Some sanding (with a hobby/ straight sander) will be required to make T-7 be properly aligned with the other ribs. Making this correction will also add a slight washout effect, making tip stalls less likely. UNQUOTE

This area to cut out: see my pic below. Is the yellow area the part to be cut out? I post two pics (in case my yellow area is incorrect, you could show me where on the untouched pic) :-)




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:33:43 AM)

Other way around. Remember the side with the tabs is the top of the wing. Take the 1/8 inch off the other side, the side the is really the bottom!!! LOL

Mark




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:42:55 AM)

I hope my meager Photoshop skills get the point across . . .




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 2:45:49 AM)

Here's a picture or two of what the end result should be. You're creating a more sharply defined taper at the tip but the majority of that taper comes from the bottom of the wing towards the top, hence the modifications.




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 3:01:57 AM)

"The block I refer to is to correct the model wing tips so they more closely resemble the real bird. This mod is in post #31 of this thread by Corsairjock. So I am still puzzled as to location/purpose."


I didn't respond to this one; the block is added to give you some material for shaping the tip to the proper angle. I would center it on the back of the LE material.

Mark




voyager_663rd -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 4:03:28 AM)

Center it between T6 and T7 ??

and with T7 and trimming the 1/8"--is that trimming inside the spar slot too ?

oh, and Kram,I'm following your build on rcscalebuilder as well [:D]




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 4:11:49 AM)

SSSHHHHH don't say that too loud in here!!! LOL

The block is attached up against tip rib T7. It is centered there, top to bottom. When you trim the T7 rib you must also deepen the spar slot. This will keep the spar flush with the rib.

Mark (see ya at the "other" place!) [sm=cool.gif]




voyager_663rd -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 4:33:51 AM)

NOW I got it. That block does provide additional support for the sheeting top and bottom more so than just for shaping purposes. It's getting pretty thin air-foil wise out there is why I see it's needed.

Boy, that took some visualization to see what was happening.

I guess that proves I'm a "visual" learner, not a "reading" learner. Explains why I had such a hard time in school.

Thanks a lot Kram.




kram51 -> RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 4:36:59 AM)

You are most welcome! Jim did us all a great service by putting up this thread. I'm glad I could help.

Mark




CorsairJock -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 5:20:22 AM)

Wow, just got home from work and all kinds of new posts here. I 'll answer the one concerning the block tonite, attack the rest tomorrow.

CORRECTION (this post has been edited, edits are in bold):
The block is not in the plans: it is one of my suggestions for wing tip modifications. To make a more accurate wing tip, there needs to be more material in the corner of the wing tip bay, bordering the leading edge and T-7. This is because the tip needs to be more rounded when viewed from above or below, and the leading edge where it meets T-7 needs to be sanded significantly away to achieve this. Thus, the block goes lengthwise against the leading edge and butts up to T-7, and is used to re-inforce the leading edge where the leading edge is sanded almost completely away.

My scanner has been very unfriendly lately, if anyone would care to scan the Top Flite wingtip area and post it here, I would be glad to use Photo Deluxe to super-impose it over scale drawings, and reasoning behind the block should become apparent. If you do it, I suggest scanning at 72 DPI and save as .jpg. This should keep it correct size.

Also, the OTHER end result desired: you should be able to place a straight edge on top of the (outer sections) wing spar, and there should be NO GAP, all the way to the tip. Same goes for the trailing edge stock, where ailerons and flaps are attached. Top Flite plans have the top drooping as it gets close to the tips. The bottom need to curve upward to meet the tips (as veiwed from the front).

In other words, the mods are addressing 2 separate issues: 1) the incorrect contour of the tips when viewed from above (or below), and 2) the incorrect contour when viewed from the front.

On the second issue, the extra block will also help on in this area as a lot of sheeting need to be sanded also.

Mark (kram51), looks like you did a pretty good job of clarifying things here, THANKS for the help.




voyager_663rd -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/24/2004 4:05:14 PM)

One last item then. This is obvious (I hope I'm right) once T7 is trimmed by that 1/8" but I need to ask:

Having cut off 1/8" all along the bottom of T7 (which when building is the top--yah, this is confusing), the bottom (which is the top right now) SPAR SLOTmust also be deepened by 1/8" (the amount removed from the bottom of T7), the opposite spar slot having been deepened by 1/32".

If not, then the bottom spar will "stick up" past the bottom of T7 by 1/8", rather than being flush with the bottom of the rib.

Correct?




CorsairJock -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (2/24/2004 6:46:56 PM)

From post 31:
quote:

ORIGINAL: CorsairJock

To correct the Gold Edition, wing ribs T-7 need to be modified (before assembly) by trimming about 1/8? all the way across the bottom, 1/32? from the upper spar notch, and 1/16? from the rear alignment tab. This should get you pretty close, you can check by assembling and using a straight edge to see if the tops of all ribs line up, all the way across. Some sanding (with a hobby/ straight sander) will be required to make T-7 be properly aligned with the other ribs. Making this correction will also add a slight washout effect, making tip stalls less likely.


First off, when RCU made the Great Change last fall, some of the old posts got screwed up some, thus the question marks where quotation marks were originally

When I stated "trimming about 1/8" all the way across the bottom", I mean the TRUE bottom, which is on top during assembly. Trimming this allows the bottom to 'sweep/ curve' upward towards the tips, so that the top surface can remain flat accross the spar while the actual tips become more pointed (less rounded) when viewed from the front.

"1/32" from the upper spar notch" and "1/16" from the rear alignment tab" allows the top of the rib to be raised a little (or LOWERED during assembly), which in turn allows the rear part of the rib to align with the tops of the other ribs. After assembly (and before sheeting the TRUE top), the TRUE top of T-7 must be sanded in the area around the spar area to match alignment with the other ribs.

In other words, in 2 steps:
1) the TRUE bottom of T-7 must have 1/8" removed to allow a more scale profile (from the front), AND
2) the TRUE top needs to be modified somewhat so that its shape (as viewed from the side) is consistent with the other ribs. In it's un-modified form, the rear portion of T-7 droops down more than the other ribs, which actually creates a slight wash-in effect. After modifications, this wash-in effect is removed, AND the profile becomes more scale accurate. "Some sanding (with a hobby/ straight sander) will be required to make T-7 be properly aligned with the other ribs" refers to this customization of the TRUE top of T-7. Actually, a little (1/32") should be taken off the TRUE top before assembly, so that it will slide all the way onto the spar after the 1/32" is removed from the spar slot.

Whew, hope this clarifies to all, had to dig out all my prints and manuals (it's been awhile now).

Went to the Air Zoo today to get some details (pictures and measurements) on the drop tank/ bomb pylons, so I will share that info as I build mine and sort out all the data. I'm going for it: gonna add those drop tanks.




voyager_663rd -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (2/24/2004 8:07:51 PM)

done




rlawrie -> RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/25/2004 3:15:42 AM)

Here are the tip pictures. I sent both the plan view and edge view as I didn't know which you wanted. I hope scale is correct. If not I can try again.
You once mentioned putting all this into a book. Joyfully the number of pages is increasing rapidly. Hope fully it will continue at least past the time I actually start to build my first.
Semper Fi
Dick




CorsairJock -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/25/2004 1:37:45 PM)

rlawrie, THANKS for submitting the scan of the Top Flite wing tip. As for the front profile, I already scanned that some time ago (when my scanner was working), and have comparisons to scale (and the 'red box') profile somewhere near post 31.

OK, this drawing will show why you need to add some wood behind the leading edge in the corner by T-7. As can be seen, a lot of wood needs to be removed from the leading edge in this area, thereby making it weak and thin UNLESS you add the wood (balsa) behind the leading edge.
The black outlines are scanned from Top Flite plans, by rlawrie. The red lines are from scale drawings, sized to 1/8 scale. NOTE, these drawings may not be 100% accurate as far as size goes, but should be close. They ARE proportionally correct tho.




voyager_663rd -> RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods (2/25/2004 8:00:16 PM)

Sorry to do this to you but I want to be sure. The block is added where I have put the yellow cross-hatched block?




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