RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods  
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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/25/2004 8:49:07 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

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I came across this interesting site in my travels. I know there are many but what was interesting was the fact they mentioned the right wing spoiler (and it's use) as well as some of the construction detail.

One characteristic they do mention is that fin was offset to compensate for the torque. I DON"T think I want to try to add that mod to this discussion but those who are more ambitious may consider it.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avf4u.html#m2

The F4U-1 was of basically conventional monocoque construction, made mostly of metal. The ailerons had wood frames and plywood skinning, while the rudder, elevators, and outer wings had metal frames and fabric skinning. The flaps were all metal. The tailfin was slightly offset from the centerline to help compensate for engine torque. There were trim tabs on the ailerons and the rudder.

and an almost unnoticeable 15 centimeter (6 inch) fixed "stall strip" that was fitted to the leading edge of the right wing outboard of the guns to ensure that both wings stalled at the same time on landing approach


Love this bird.

(in reply to voyager_663rd)
       Post #: 251

RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/25/2004 9:40:32 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CorsairJock

Juice, if you are reading this: you really need at least one of these tanks also (there are many photos of carrier based Corsairs having just one of these tanks, hanging from the right wing pylon).


Having the bomb/rocket racks loaded will cause substantial drag. Won't having this tank on (although it would look sooooo cool), make it that much more "inefficient"? Got the horses for it?

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       Post #: 252

RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/25/2004 9:45:20 PM   
F4U Killer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voyager_663rd

I came across this interesting site in my travels. I know there are many but what was interesting was the fact they mentioned the right wing spoiler (and it's use) as well as some of the construction detail.

One characteristic they do mention is that fin was offset to compensate for the torque. I DON"T think I want to try to add that mod to this discussion but those who are more ambitious may consider it.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avf4u.html#m2

The F4U-1 was of basically conventional monocoque construction, made mostly of metal. The ailerons had wood frames and plywood skinning, while the rudder, elevators, and outer wings had metal frames and fabric skinning. The flaps were all metal. The tailfin was slightly offset from the centerline to help compensate for engine torque. There were trim tabs on the ailerons and the rudder.

and an almost unnoticeable 15 centimeter (6 inch) fixed "stall strip" that was fitted to the leading edge of the right wing outboard of the guns to ensure that both wings stalled at the same time on landing approach


Love this bird.


I had been wondering for a long time what the spoiler looked like that tamed the Corsairs Tip Stall.
I found a Book with a lot of Graphics in it this past Christmas and it had the Spoiler in it.
From a side view the spoiler looks something like this Key stroke }
I had never imagined something so minuscule would have such an effect.

The Book that I purchased

Corsair 30 years of Filibustering 1940-1970

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       Post #: 253

RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/26/2004 5:32:57 AM   
CorsairJock



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voyager_663rd, yes the yellow area is where the additional wood (balsa) needs to be.
I am aware of the fin offset AND the 'spoiler' The spoiler was on F4U-1D and later models, it is indeed 6" long, and is just outboard of the right wing machine guns. The idea was to get the right wing to stall just a little quicker (than a right wing without the spoiler), thereby making it stall almost a quick as the left wing.

I have assembled the drop tanks, and installed the Vortac release parts onto them: the pair weighs about 134 gr at this point, a little over 4 oz without paint. The servo and remaining parts will no doubt add a few more oz. My 8 lb, 10 Corsair may become an over 9 lb Corsair when all is said and done. I don't think the drag will be too much of a factor, as the tanks are pretty streamlined. But the added weight will be pushing the Saito .72 to it's limits. Maybe I will only carry 'external stores' when the temps are mild, say in the 70s. Time will tell, and I'll keep all infromed.

About those drop tanks: I originally listed them as part #109, that was an error on my part, they are #AC901 (but #901 is all that is on the label). Sorry for the mix up.

< Message edited by CorsairJock -- 2/26/2004 8:43:12 AM >


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       Post #: 254

RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/27/2004 1:36:37 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

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PHEW. This post deals with the importance of doing all your research BEFORE actually cutting/gluing any parts.

As you may know, I am patterning my bird after Lt Hammy Gray, VC DSC RCNVR. He was based with the FAA operating in the South Pacific. Because of the unique "flight" characteristics of the Corsair, a new landing pattern had to be flown in order to land on carriers. Basically, it was a "circular" pattern until literally just before landing on the deck, the pilot leveled out. Something to do with the long nose .

Anyways, British carriers will somewhat smaller than U.S. ones and it was determined that if the wings on the Corsair were "clipped" by 8", it drastically improved its low speed (stall) handling characteristics. That wasn't the intention (it was so the bird could fit in storage) but was a welcome side-effect.

So, although Corsairjock's mods include a re-designed wingtip, mine will ALSO include a re-designed BUT DIFFERENT wingtip--8" shorter and blunt. With the 1/8 scale, that brings it to a 1/2" squared-off stub at each tip.

Maybe not as esthetically pleasing to the eye, but it will most assuredly be distinctive.

I'd like to thank Jim for his dedication to bringing the "correctness" back to this particular plane. There are others (Dion comes to mind) as well who have contributed much to this discussion and you know who they are. Without his input, I would have not researched this topic to the extent that I have.

Thank you Jim for a job well done.

Len

< Message edited by voyager_663rd -- 2/27/2004 10:55:18 AM >

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/27/2004 2:19:08 PM   
CorsairJock



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Yes, the U.S. Navy intitially did not consider the Corsair suitable for carrier based operations, and thus regulated the unwanted aircraft to the the U.S, Marines for land based operations. The British on the other hand, recogonized what a great aircraft the Corsair was, and with their 'we must sink the Bismark' determination decided to 'make it work' (from carriers). One of the problems was the long straight nose, which severely limited forward visibility during those difficult carrier landings. The British came up with a few ideas which resulted in changes to production Corsairs, AND developed the sweeping arc landing pattern which allowed the pilots to maintain sight of the carrier until the last few moments, by which time all they had to do was cut the power and drop to the deck. Thanks to the British, the changes in design and procedures prompted the U.S. Navy to take another look at the Corsair. When they finally did accept it as carrier suitable, they did so with great earnest. By 1945, some Essex class carriers had more Corsairs stationed on them than all other aircraft combined, because the Corsair could not only out-duel most Japanese fighters in combat, but it could also carry a heavy payload of bombs and rockets for attack strikes, some against Japanese homeland manufacturing sites. The U.S.S. Bunker Hill had over 70 Corsairs stationed on her in 1945, other carriers had simular numbers.
The Hellcat was a great plane also, because it was much more pilot friendly to all those newly trained pilots. The Corsair was a hot rod in comparison, having superior performance but not for beginners.
BTW, the reason for 'clipping the wings (on British versions) had to due with the heigth of the British carrier hangers: the ceiling was lower than U.S. carrier so a rounded tipped Corsair did not have suffient clearance. It was determined that clipping the wings also had a desirable effect on landings as mentioned, by requiring a slighly higher landing speed but with reduced stall tendancies.

< Message edited by CorsairJock -- 2/27/2004 2:08:46 PM >


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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/27/2004 3:51:23 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

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While the glue dries, more research into techniques. I had a feeling that any decals I MIGHT find would be difficult to apply/colours may not be correct etc etc.

Came across this site for painting your own decals, insignia on plastic models. The practises here will be applied to mine. Hope you find it usefull. Now to find the correct colours to use.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2001/07/stuff_eng_tech_paintdecals1.htm

< Message edited by voyager_663rd -- 2/27/2004 11:13:17 AM >

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/27/2004 6:32:39 PM   
F4U Killer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voyager_663rd

Anyways, British carriers will somewhat smaller than U.S. ones and it was determined that if the wings on the Corsair were "clipped" by 8", it drastically improved its low speed (stall) handling characteristics. That wasn't the intention (it was so the bird could fit in storage) but was a welcome side-effect.


In 86 I had just moved to Reno, Nev and I was doing some work out at Stead where the Reno Air Races are held.

The Races start on Thurs, but the days preceeding the Races you can get in for free and watch the planes make runs and practice on the course.

The only up close Corsair I have ever seen was a Clipped Wing Corsair.
It had US marking's on it and faded paint.

I was in Love with the Corsair every since The Black Sheep came out and as I was standing there watching this plane run up. I was thinking what a shame it was for this guy to ruin this plane by chopping the ends of the wings off.
I was also thinking these guys will do anything to gain a little extra speed at the exspense of the Plane.

At the time I did not know the British ever saw a Corsair.

I now wish I could turn the clock back and be able to talk to the pilot to find out the history of the Bird

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/27/2004 8:39:21 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

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Thanks for the story F4U Killer. It's nice to add personal touches to this topic. I don't feel so wrong now about adding a little bit more "history" to it. With Jim having said he's basically finished with mods for this one, here's a bit more "story".

In my research, I came across why there were so few corsairs left in British possession after the war. The corsairs that Britain obtained were through the U.S. Lend Lease program. They were provided free to their British allies as the U.S. contribution to their war effort.

That was one of the reasons the U.S. govt offered its citizens for their "largess". "Hey folks, it's only a loan. We're going to get them back when the Limey's are through with them".

Well, the end of the war came and so came the end of Lend Lease. The U.S. didn't want the birds back. The Brit's couldn't afford to pay for them. With the blessings of both the British and U.S. government, the VAST majority were outright destroyed--literally, sailors pushed them off the carrier decks into the Pacific to sink to the bottom of the ocean. Those that were still on land were sent to wrecking yards where they were crushed flat as pancakes. None were to survive save those that were either shot down/abandoned elsewhere or "spirited away" by private individuals.

Kinda reminds me of the story of our own Avro Arrow. Different circumstances but still, destruction at the hands of the governments of the day. Anyways, here is one of the stories, as I found it as written by K S Nair:


Japan, 1946

Imagine a coalition air force consisting of American, Australian, British and Indian fighter squadrons, operating from airbases close to a city devastated by nuclear strike, patrolling the seas around the Korean peninsula. This is not a fictional scenario from the latest Humphrey Hawksley or Tom Clancy techno-thriller - it was actually happening, 57 years ago.

In early 1946 No 4 Squadron, Royal Indian Air Force, was selected to go to Japan as part of the British Commonwealth Occupation Forces. The selected contingent numbered 40 officers, of whom 25 were pilots. Seven of those 25 were the new Pilot Officers.

It was decided that the squadron would ferry its aircraft from Bangalore to Cochin (now Kochi), where they would embark for the voyage on a Royal Navy aircraft-carrier. The squadron was told that they would not have to land on the carrier - their aircraft would be loaded on - but they might have to take off from the carrier when they reached Japan. They therefore fitted wingtip extensions onto their aircraft (which were otherwise clipped-wing variants), and developed wooden pegs to hold the flaps in a suitable position for short take-offs. They practised short take-offs, until they could all take off within 200 yards.

BN Surendra, one of the Indian DFC awardees, brought a case of Scotch to the squadron the night before they were due to ferry their aircraft to Cochin. It was 1st April, Air Force Day, and an occasion for celebration; and the pilots may have, ill-advisedly, sat up and finished Surendra's gift.

Pilots and aircraft set out for Cochin the next day, 2nd April. The first section of four aircraft was led by Flying Officer WR Dani flying NH795. On approaching to land at Cochin, which had a short runway with grass on the approach, he hit telegraph wires and overturned. He survived the crash, but suffered glycol burns and could not travel with the rest of the squadron to Japan. (WR Dani was later to command No 5 Squadron when they converted to Canberras, and to retire after a distinguished career as an Air Commodore.)

At Cochin, there was a batch of brand-new Vought Corsairs, American-built carrier-borne fighters that had been provided to the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm under Lend-Lease. They were so new that they still had brown-paper coverings on their instruments; but as they were Lend-Lease aircraft, they were required to be scrapped, now that the war was over. Again, RAF and FAA personnel were surreptitiously and systematically stripping them of their radios. The RAF Station Commander caught on, and announced a general amnesty if all the stolen radios were returned and placed "outside my office by tomorrow morning." Whatever the alternative it can't have been pleasant; Digby recalls that most of the radios were in fact returned by the deadline.

Ironically, the Corsairs were disposed of, in keeping with the requirements of Lend-Lease, not long afterwards. 30 of them, together with FAA Types as Corsairs and Helldats, were actually loaded onto the same aircraft carrier as No 4 Squadron, and were simply pushed overboard once the ship had reached deep water.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Digby02.html

More stories to be told. . . . .

< Message edited by voyager_663rd -- 2/27/2004 4:12:50 PM >

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/28/2004 12:27:55 AM   
hatnikman3


 

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Fantastic thread guys, I wish I had something to contribute. I am new to this "scale stuff" and have been sucked into this thread in particular while building the TF Corsair.
Amazing the knowledge some of you folks have (I'm envious). I am building the "full blown" version (as if there was any other way) & would love to know where you folks get the decals that go w/the 1D, tri colored version. I have searched many places & have not received clear answers or they cost was more than the plane kit! I've seen the some beautiful marine dreams out there.
I had to grab a Kleenex after hearing they shoved those planes off the carrier decks!! Long live the Corsair!
Thanks in advance for any help. Nick

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RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/28/2004 12:38:30 AM   
voyager_663rd


 

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I'm nowhere near that stage but having spare time while the glue dries, I've found that concerning my bird, it may be that painting the rondelles, etc on may be the best way to go. Trouble with that method is making sure they are perfect as far as symmetry (sp) goes--round not oval/wobbly/etc comes to mind.

Colour match-ups is another consideration. Mine will have FAA colours which was different in the South Pacific for corsairs as opposed to the ones based in Europe. They needed to ensure that the rondelle was not mistaken for the rising sun at distance so both colour scheme and design were altered. Research, research.

I'm starting to find that I enjoy the research as much as the building.

nkypockets, ss your bird patterned after ONE particular plane or just the variant/location in general? That may/probably will influence just how you proceed.

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       Post #: 261

RE: RE: RE: RE: 1/8 scale TopFlite Corsair Mods - 2/28/2004 1:39:43 AM   
Rocketman612



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nkypockets

I am building the "full blown" version (as if there was any other way) & would love to know where you folks get the decals that go w/the 1D, tri colored version. I have searched many places & have not received clear answers or they cost was more than the plane kit! I've seen the some beautiful marine dreams out there.

Thanks in advance for any help. Nick


Nick,


I placed my order with Denny ay Model Graphics here is the link: http://www.cajunrc.com/Model_Graphics/Military/Military_choose.htm
Decal set consists of:
4 National Insignias
2 Lg #3 for Fuse
2 Sm#3 for Air Break
2 Jolly Roger flags
5 Kill