RE: Flaps (Full Version)

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F2G-1 -> RE: Flaps (12/4/2003 11:55:04 PM)

Pete,

You're a genius. Those flaps look great.
Do you have to set the throw on the servo way down because of such a short moment on the horn? I'd like to build my flaps like yours. Any chance of a simple diagram to help me out?

Thanks,
Ted[:D]



Rocketman612 -> RE: Flaps (12/5/2003 1:18:34 AM)

Ted,
Thanks, but I borrowed Shupack's idea for going through the TE. I will not be carving out a notch for the flaps to recess them in the TE. I will use 1/64 ply lapped over the hinge line to hide the gap. The hatches will allow me to adjust and service the links later.


quote:

ORIGINAL: F2G-1

Do you have to set the throw on the servo way down because of such a short moment on the horn? I'd like to build my flaps like yours. Any chance of a simple diagram to help me out?

Thanks,
Ted[:D]



Yes, I'm fine tuning geometry by moving all the clevises for the least amount of movement and decreasing the ATV on the Tx but, you really want the servo to move as much as possible. I will try to get a diagram to you but the photos pretty much show everything.

Pete



ganu -> RE: Flaps (12/5/2003 3:48:32 PM)

fine looking flaps there, pete.



CorsairJock -> RE: Flaps (12/6/2003 5:39:48 AM)

Nicely done, Pete, and thanks for another informative and well displayed contribution to this post. Your method of flap deployment is closer to the way the full scale ones operate, so you have also made it more scale. As for your ATVs, you should definately do what you can to utilize full servo throw here, as more throw equals more available torque for a given amount of flap deflection. I noted that all linkages to the bellcrank went to the innermost holes, changing the ones coming from your servo to the outermost holes would allow more servo travel while reducing throw to the flaps, thereby allowing you to increase ATVs.



Rocketman612 -> RE: Flaps (12/6/2003 6:47:36 PM)

Well done with the other side. Pins on the servo arms are at 13mm. On the bellcrank the clevis from the servo is in the outermost hole and the clevis to the flap is in the middle hole. Retracted the servo is at 100% ATV and deployed is at 92% ATV. Not bad[8D] Pete



ezwarbird -> Scale flaps (12/8/2003 4:52:03 AM)

I skipped around a bit on my kit, im done with the fuselage and im sheeting my wings now.....im a little intimidated by the scale flaps. My opinion is that i cant have a model like this without the scale flaps. This is my first kit and i hear these flaps are really tricky. Is there anything i should know about how to rig'em up. the plan and instructions are pretty vague around this area.



CorsairJock -> RE: Scale flaps (12/8/2003 2:11:27 PM)

Yes, the flaps on a Corsair can be very tricky, and if one has questions regarding their building skills and/ or pateince in getting them properly set up, it may be best to leave them non-functional. As there are 6 seperate flaps, at different angles and dihedrals, it can be very difficult to get them all lined up properly. Patience and persistance are required. If not set-up properly, they can be a detractor to flight performance, and have the potential to really make things hairy when you are flying slow. But if you do have what it takes to make them functional, they are really worth it, on a Corsair more than other warbirds, because they are a big part of the Corsair look. Few other aircraft have such distinct and noticable flaps as the Corsair, AND they do improve landings when set-up right.

Here is yet another pic of my still uncompleted 'red box' Corsair. I have the inner 4 flaps installed (temporary, not glued yet) showing the 'web' between the inner and center flaps which I made from 1/16 hard ply. I use this web instead of music wire for actuation of center flaps to give it a more scale appearance, as full scale have a simular web. I also planned on using one servo on this one, using torque rods on innermost flaps. I have concerns about the strength of torque rods under so much stress tho, so I may re-engineer this into a bellcrank driven set-up simular to Pete's (Rocketman612) set-up.

Also, this wing is set-up for single servo (HiTec 225MG, already installed) aileron operations.

Lastly: THE GALLERY IS FINALLY BACK! Click on "GALLERY" button below to see pics of my Corsairs. I still have and fly the DynaFlite and #167 Top Flite Corsairs, #102 Top Flite crashed due to pilot error/ abuse.



hoonnz -> RE: Scale flaps (12/9/2003 4:34:26 AM)

Jim:

Brilliant work. I see another example of something I wanted to do on my last Corsair, but decided was too difficult. and that's the web between the centre and inner flaps. How did you get round the geometry of it? As I envisage it, the angle of the flaps relative to each other changes as they swing down so I was afraid of everything jamming. Am I visualising it wrong, or have you just allowed plenty of 'slop' to allow smooth movement? What is the shape of the web inside the flap (the one it is sliding in)?

I noticed your reference to the Hitec servo for your ailerons. I have just finished a Capiche 50 for my sports flying persona, and I had used brand new Hitec 225MG servos on the rudder and tail surfaces. I bumped the model when setting it up, a non-event type bump, and was startled to find the rudder servo jammed. The case had split where it formed a bearing for one of the gear stacks. I spoke to the supplier who said this servo is really only for gliders, or models under .40 size, and that being a mini servo meant that the case was not as strong as standard servos and this sort of thing could occur from the normal bumps of landing, getting out the car etc. Scared me enough to swap out the servos to put aside for a more sedate .25 size seaplane I have planned one day.
In the capiche thread I also read that several pilots had used them on their ailerons and found they didn't centre as well as other servos, and a couple of people commented on them jamming occasionally.

I'm a JR man myself, but the new Futaba 3010 servo is getting rave reviews, apparently centres much better, and is a bit more powerful so that is what I am going to. Oh yes, its very reasonably priced to. Don't want to scare you but that is a critical servo!

Happy landings
HoonNZ
(Brian Emslie)



Rocketman612 -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (12/11/2003 11:07:19 PM)

Well I worked on the improving the wingtips. Starting with larger balsa stock I reproduced the angle of the leading edge balsa and T7 rib. I tack glued the balsa and overlayed the template CorsairJock posted. Then cut it out on the scroll saw and glued it on. I had sheeted the wing months ago so I could not trim the bottom of rib T7 as recommended to give you a nice straight taper to the tip. I was able to taper but there is a slight angle at T7. I overlayed the TF tip to show just how off it is. The final result while not perfect is still way better. Thanks for the tip CorsairJock (pun intended)[:D] Pete



voyager_663rd -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (12/11/2003 11:32:19 PM)

not having received the kit yet, I can't compare. However, from the pics that difference is substantial. thanks for the pics.



claikens -> Scale Engine Cooling Fuselage Mods (12/13/2003 7:25:00 PM)

I'm glad to see this thread. I've been looking for ways to make my Corsair more scale. I'm really looking forward to trying to incorporate these mods into the one I'm building. However, I do have a couple of questions.

First, when rounding off the fuselage to do the cooling mod, is it neccessary to reinforce the firewall more? And are your measurements from F1 or F2? I already glued on F1 and I was wondering how this would change things?

Second, I could really use some hints on how to sand the top of the wing. What tools are needed, what have you found that worked well, etc?

Chris



CorsairJock -> RE: Scale Engine Cooling Fuselage Mods (12/13/2003 8:00:07 PM)

claikens:

Concerning first question: Gold Edition versions will have a combined 1/4" ply firewall (when F-1 and F-2 are glued to each other). This is plenty thick for just about any engine you may want to install. I did not do any further re-inforcement to mine. But you may wish to add some re-inforcement to the area of F-1 which extends outward from the modified F-2, and specically is for the mounting of cowl ring. I didn't do it to mine, consider it optional. Measurements are from F-2. As you have already attached F-1 to F-2, you would need to add another piece of ply for the cowl mounting, unless you can figure out another way to mount it. Adding more ply would also lengthen the nose tho, and it is already slightly slighty longer than scale. If it were me ( and I have a belt sander to do it with ), I would sand off F-1, do the mods to F-2 and forward fueselage, and make a new F-1 to install. Making a new F-1 shouldn't be much of a task, just get some good 1/8 or 3/16" ply from your hobby shop.

As for second question which concerns sanding the wings: I use a Great Planes 22" bar sander. You can pick one up from your hobby shop while youre there to get the plywood.

On an earlier post regarding my use of Hitec 225MG servos: Please let's not start a servo choice discussion here, but I have the older 205s installed on my DynaFlite Corsair, which has over 1,000 flights (1,500 counting touch and goes), and has encountered it's share of bumps and bruises (and repairs), and has never had any problems with these servos. They use the same case as the 225s.

Thanks, Pete (Rocketman) for the pics of your wingtips. Altho the profile as viewed head on isn't scale ( hard to make the tips with such a sharp edge without making them vulnerable to damage), you got the top view right, and this is one of the biggest inaccuracies in a built per plans Top Flite Corsair. You'll really notice the difference if you park your's next to another, plans built Top Flite Corsair.



CorsairJock -> Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/20/2003 2:15:43 PM)

This is another item that I noticed when things just didn't look right. If you have an early Gold Edition Corsair box top, look at the completed Corsair with gear down, and then look at some pictures of full scales in about the same orientation. You should notice that the wheels on the box top look way too small. That's because they are.
Let's talk scale: a full scale Corsair has a wing span of about 41 feet, or 492" (41 x 12). Divide by 8 and you come up with 61 1/2", which is about the same as your Top Flight Corsair (and EXACTLY the span of a Royal Corsair), which means that these aircraft are 1/8 scale, despite what may be stated in manuals or advertisements. NOTE to you owners of the Top Flite Giant Corsair: This is also mis-labeled by Top Flite, it is NOT 1/5 scale. 492" divided by 5 equals 98.4", the Top Flite Giant Scale Corsair has an 86" span, which is much closer to 1/6 scale than 1/5 (492" divided by 6 equals 82").
The main wheels on a full scale are about 32" in diameter. If you divide that by 8, that means that the correct size for scale wheels is 4". Top Flight recommends using 3 1/4" wheels, which is the size that are shown on the box top. Royal recommends 3 1/2" wheels for their Corsairs.
So what size to use?

4" Wheels: 4" wheels can be made to fit in the wheel wells. That is to say, there is sufficient room between main spar and trailing edge spar for the 4" wheels to fit into. But there are some other issues why you may want to use a smaller size:
1) Bigger wheels mean more total weight.
2) The weight of wheels on a Corsair (or ANY aircraft with retracts that move for to aft, rather than laterally) moves the balance point of the aircraft when the gear is retracted. More weight means a greater shift in the center of gravity.
3) Even tho the wheels fit between the spar, there may be other clearance issues if you elect to install operating gear doors.
4) I have a set of Robart 4" scale wheels, they use the same hub as the smaller wheels, and this hub just doesn't look right (too small) with the 4" wheels.

3 3/4" Wheels: Robart 3 3/4" scale wheels are a very good choice if you really are after the scale look. Other 3 3/4" wheels work pretty well also, but the Robarts are the most authentic looking right out of the package (no mods except paint). This size has the appearance of being scale size, but allows more room in retract bays than the 4" variety. It should also be noted that Robart scale wheels, although very authentic looking, are also among the heaviest wheels.

3 1/2" Wheels: This is the size I usually use. The are big enough to not be so obviously under sized as the 3 1/4" wheels, and leave a lot of room in the retract wells. In other words, I think they are a good choice unless you are about to compete in a scale event, in which case go with the Robart 3 3/4" wheels. I am currently using 3 1/2" Dave Brown treaded foam wheels, which are about 2 oz. lighter than a set of Robarts the same size. The Dave Browns do not look near as good, unless you modify them as another Corsair fanatic has: Luke. Go to his thread "Royal Corsair Project" to see how Luke added the scale spoke look to his Dave Brown wheels.

So, the bottom line here is that I recommend that your wheels be at the very least, 1/4" larger in diameter than the size that Top Flite recommends. I therefor consider this a modification, rather than just a choice of accessories. Also, most manufacturers do show scale size AND their recommended size for main wheels, Top Flite does not.

Well that should answer some all questions about main gear wheels, in a later post I'll address the tailwheel.



kram51 -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/20/2003 4:12:52 PM)

Keep the ideas rolling fellas! I was thinking of adding the ply horn similar to the TF P-47. The Jug's flaps deploy similar to the Corsairs. If I can find a drawing or picture I'll post it for you guys to assess it's usefulness. I'm really enjoying the experience and I've been modifying my plane from the get go. I built the outer wing panels last night and modified T7 as per the recommendation here. I'll post a picture here this afternoon of it. I was wanting to run the flap linkage internally as Rocketman has done.


Mark

Sorry that they're upside down!



kram51 -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/22/2003 4:29:23 AM)

I've been thinking about how to reinforce the wing tips so that they're not as prone to braekage when made to the thinner scale shape. On other planes I've built the plans had a strip of plywood added to give it stiffness, especially at the TE tip. I think this would help the Corsair as well. I'm thinking to add a piece of 1/16 ply to my tips so that they can be sanded to the sharper profile.

Mark



kram51 -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/22/2003 5:13:51 PM)

Any of you add a retracting tailwheel? I've seen Luke's and I'm not at that skill level. Still, I'd like to experiment with one if it's feasable. Any thoughts?

Mark



Rocketman612 -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (12/23/2003 2:44:56 AM)

Well I finished the Ailerons and added the 1/64 ply to hide the hinge line. I made a L shaped block that would overlap the sheeting by 1cm and sanded a shelf for the ply. I then cut 14mm wide strips and CA'd them down. Some final sanding of the ailerons to ensure clearence. I'm getting just over 1 inch of free movement but will only need 1/2 in for throws. Pete



kram51 -> RE: Wing Tip Modifications (12/23/2003 2:49:07 AM)

Very nice Rocketman! Did you change the tips to get the proper thickness as well as shape? I admire your handiwork, very clean looking.

Mark



hoonnz -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/26/2003 7:53:34 AM)

Hi Mark

Yes a retracting tailwheel was one of my first priorities when I saw the plans, this is a distictive area on the Corsair, especially with the streamlining behind it. I described how I did mine in an earlier post (112), and now that I am pulling apart the remains of my last Corsair, I can get a few photos. See if these are clear, if not post your questions. I'm not giving dimensions as they will depend on your choice of tailwheel gear that you start with - mine was a Klett tailwheel set. One important note - the bellcrank/link that connects to the gear and pulls it up & down must go fractionally past maximum and then come up against a stop. This takes the stress of landing and prevents any movement transmitting back to the servo.
I wanted steering on the ground, but as the tailwheel is connected to the rudder steering-wise and can't be allowed to move when up (no room with the doors up) then I needed a way to disconnect and straighten the wheel as it comes up. If you look at the geometry of those steering cables you'll see they go slack as the gear pulls up, and the 2 springs pull the wheel straight. This still allows full rudder movement.

Merry xmas
Brian

PS. The short dangling links (with snap-on ball connectors) operate the doors.



voyager_663rd -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/26/2003 6:05:45 PM)

Oh my. This is not amateur stuff.[:-]



hoonnz -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/26/2003 7:48:13 PM)

It is actually. I don't have any engineering equipment or skill, this is made from a cut down hinge from a hardware store, and scraps of thin steel from one of those covers from a computer - the L-shaped strips you get left with when you fit a new soundcard or whatever. The rest of the parts are all standard links, clevises etc from your model gear. The only tools I used were a hacksaw, file, and a drill. I made a mockup to begin with, fiddling with it till the movements worked correctly, then made an extra former to mount it.
The internal parts aren't very elegant, but it works very well, and really makes the plane look superb.

Give it a go!

Brian.



CorsairJock -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/26/2003 10:12:08 PM)

hoonnz,
Very Nicely done retractable tailwheel, thanks for the info and pics of it!. Like I said earlier, I really love those hard to find Klett tailwheels, but have never used the Klett tailwheel assembly. I'll have to keep my eyes open for one at swap meets from now on. Speaking of retractable tailwheels, I was insntalling the Robart version on my 'red box' Corsair, but encountered difficulities with the steering linkage hook-ups. Turns out, I was coming from the wrong direction: I was setting it up for pull-pull from the rudder (aft of the tailwheel assembly), while a more practical approach is to set it up for pull-pull from the servo (forward of the assembly). This allows the cables to become slack as the gear goes up, and pull tight when the wheel is down. It was hard to accomplish this from the rudder.
Anyway, thanks again for the help, I'm sure others will appreciate your approach to installing a retractable tailwheel, I know I will as soon as I can find the Klett tailwheel assembly



kram51 -> RE: Corsair Main Landing Gear Wheels (12/27/2003 10:39:42 PM)

Hi guys! I was cruising around the net and found a gem to share with you. As you know Klett tailwheels have been hard to come by. I found Klett's new website and they're still in business!

www.klettplastics.com

Seems when Goldberg went out of business they had to regroup. Their products are available by ordering direct. I know that their tail wheels are sought after by many, including myself. I wasn't going to add the retracting tailwheel but now I just might.

Mark



hoonnz -> RE: Adding a bit of realism (12/30/2003 8:52:09 AM)

If anyone is going to paint their Corsair, here are a few thoughts on realism.

About 4 years ago we had an airshow here at a local airport called Wigram. There was a Corsair there, a birdcage F4U-1. I was allowed over the 'no spectators' rope to get some photos. A few features stood out and I incorporated them into my model with great success, they brought the model to life. The first pic (of my model) shows the access hatches in the rear fuselage. On the real plane they are used often, so they are scratched and chipped, and the edges are raised so they really stand out. I copied them by cutting them out of light litho plate, simulating screws by pressing with a nail with a square-ground-off end, then a precision screwdriver, and finally gluing them into a shallow cut out. I did the same for the circular hatches on the horizontal stab. the fin got a complete panel which gave me a scale panel line, a circular hatch and it extended to cover the hinge line (Robart pin hinges).

The next pic shows the same idea for the wing tip. Again I have not tried to emulate every panel and rivet etc., just the prominent but simple things that catch the eye.

The third pic shows the wing panels. these were not as successful, but still worth it I think. They don't show up enough - the real things are opened a lot for servicing, so again the edges are prominent and bent, the catches all paint chipped, and they generally have a few dings and dents.

In the war in the Pacific thes planes had a real rough life, and that's what I wanted my model to show.

Brian



voyager_663rd -> RE: Adding a bit of realism (12/30/2003 2:10:18 PM)

So nice. You did a great job. Looks so real. Thanks for the pics.

Those access hatches, are there others? Such as opposite side of fuse?



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