Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's

Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's
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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 12:45:45 AM

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Jim,

Saw the Vert stab On a 1/4 Cap detach in flight causing it to go in last month Scratch built imagine that. :

Post mortom indicated stab not attacthed securely.... Scary... go figure even scatch builds die also

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 12:56:56 AM

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Gordon Mc
I didint know that there were books that told how to build a turbine engine. Ill buy the radio equipment though,lol.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 12:58:25 AM

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I started building models in the 50's when I was in my teens. Started with rubber band models with the cazillion 1/16 strips and cutting out bulkheads with the printed outline on them.
Then covering with tissue paper. I remember my first covering job, after spraying with water watched the wing turn into a twisted shaped something that did not look like the picture on the box at all. Also remember putting to many turns on the rubber band, using my Dad's hand drill, that the rear post pulled out and the fuselage exploded, scared the hell outa me.
But we carried on into u-control then finally into RC.

Sorry got getting a bit long, point I'm trying to make is there were many kids in my neighbor hood who started in modeling but gave up because let's face those old kits were a pain in the A$$ to build and even if you got it together it would never fly right.

With todays many diversions that are instant gratification, I really believe most people wanting to get into RC would give up if it wasn't for the availability of ARF's.

The hobby would have died out or at least we would not have the great number of advances in radio equipement, engines, etc if it wasn't for the money the ARF buyers have pumped into the industry.

Now that I'm into my sixties and lets face it folks, my eyes aren't so good, and my patience level (according to my wife) is not as long, I fly ARF's! I still like to build and have a couple on the boards but now but it takes me a lot longer than it used to so, to be able to go to the field with the rest of the old foggies I bring an ARF. If it bits the dust then I don't feel to bad and we press on besides most of them look a lot better than I could build.

I believe this should not turn into of them against us thing, I think we need each other so both sides can enjoy the hobby and make it grow.

The builders need the AFRer's to keep the hobby going, the AFRer's need the builders to teach them to repair and keep their aircraft going.

Time for my nap now.

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 1:08:40 AM

CCRC1

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As much as I enjoy building I have purchased a couple of ARF airplane over the years, just to experiment with them. The first thing I have to do is change the covering scheme. I like my aircraft to be distinct to me, and not look like all the others, but thats just my perception. I bought a Sig Somthin Extra ARF and added a bunch of extra colors and graphics and flew it for over a year. It flew fine, but you know I was never confident with the airplane because I didn't build the airframe. There was really nothing wrong with the airplane but I felt like I cheated. Again just my weird perception. I sold it to a fellow club member and I will probably build one from a kit to replace it.
I also bought a new (damaged) Hanger 9 Ultra Stick .60 ARF at a discount price from my LHS and had the same feeling when brought it home. This time I stripped all of the covering and went into the airframe and made a bunch of improvements and replaced a lot of the cheap balsa with quality stuff. I replaced more than half of the wing ribs as they were the damaged parts and recovered it in an Air Force trainer sorta design with white, orange and black. (When I was done I felt like I had repaired a crashed plane instead of assembling a new ARF.) I fly this airplane all the time and I have complete confidence in this one because I know how the airframe is constructed and I know its right because I made it right. The frame actually saw sandpaper too! Once again, my weird perception.
I know that I have had more than a dozen fellow flyers ask me where I got the .60 size stick KIT! When I tell them that its an Ultra Stick ARF half of them think I am pulling their leg and the other half want to know were they can buy one "like that". Does my ego good!
Don't let the "builders" get you down if all you choose to fly is ARF's. We (and I say "we" because I am one) balsa craftsmen are a dying breed and we are concerned that our way of doing things are changing rapidly. The LHS no longer stocks a large inventory of fixtures and hardware that we builders need. It caters its inventory to ARF customers that easily outweigh kit or scratch builders 20 to 1. ARF's allow folks who live in apartments or who do not have a shop to build in a chance to participate in the hobby. Folks who do not have confidence in their building skills can come out and fly with a nice airplane that doesn't look like a box of wrinkles. As for us builders, we tend to be perfectionists and a shade on the egotistical side, please forgive us.

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My question is: - 7/19/2003 1:34:41 AM

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Why do ARF people have such a big chip on their shoulders?

I mean why do you even care what a builder thinks if you are having so much fun??

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 1:35:24 AM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crashem
Jim,

Saw the Vert stab On a 1/4 Cap detach in flight causing it to go in last month Scratch built imagine that. : Post mortom indicated stab not attacthed securely.... Scary... go figure even scatch builds die also [/QUOTE]

Doubt he makes that mistake again...

OTOH Imagine this same Cap, with this same problem, sold to hundreds of users!!! VERY SCARY!

< Message edited by Jim_McIntyre -- Jul 18 2003 8:41PM >

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 1:40:46 AM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim_McIntyre
Was this same Cap with this same problem sold to hundreds of users? VERY SCARY! [/QUOTE]

Says scratch built doesn't it ??????

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 1:42:51 AM

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rcflier_gi
Says scratch built doesn't it ?????? [/QUOTE]

Look up Analogy in your dictionary.... :

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My 2 Cents - 7/19/2003 1:52:33 AM

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Ok I had to throw my 2 cents in. IMO arfs are 2 things way to get your hard earned money for a POS (but not all are) that needs rebuilt in order to stay toigether and be safe. but most of all what I dont like abt Barfs is that it allows checkbook type modellers the ones that dont want to take time to learn and grow in the hobby, the ones that can barely fly a trainer then go out and buy some all composite type barf and go kill someone. Also I think barfs took away from the hobby. most newbies couldnt tell you what a spar or a wing saddle is let alone glue one in blace. so then we have people that cant build trying to repair their barf and it goes to take off at the field and flies apart hurting someone. I have seen all this before and its whats ruining this hobby.

Joe

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Re: My 2 Cents - 7/19/2003 2:21:13 AM

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Originally posted by ProfLooney
but most of all what I dont like abt Barfs is that it allows checkbook type modellers the ones that dont want to take time to learn and grow in the hobby, the ones that can barely fly a trainer then go out and buy some all composite type barf and go kill someone.

Actually, a "checkbook modeler" as you call him, who doesn't want to spend any time on the model, would just go ask someone else to put the model together for him ... regardless of whether the parts that make up the model came from a kit or an ARF. BTW, the derogatory term "Checkbook modeler" often just denotes jealousy about someone else's income.

most newbies couldnt tell you what a spar or a wing saddle is let alone glue one in blace.[sic]

... and these are the people that you want to build a model from scratch ? At least the guy assembling the ARF probably knows what a spar is !

Gordon

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Newbie here - 7/19/2003 2:36:38 AM

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I totally agree with Hircflyer thanks for that input.

As far as Proflooney is concerned I don't agree personally with those statements. RC flying is a wonderful hobby and you are going to need newbies like myself who are interested in the hobby to pump money into it, That's how a hobby stays alive.
You are right, I don't know what a servo is or a wing saddle but I will learn. Like anything else it takes time and patience. I don't even have my first plane yet but I have been consistenly flying flight sims until I'm red in the face and I will do well in the hobby because I have THE DESIRE to and thats all that matters. I have a Senior flyer in my area who is going to teach me how to fly and show me how to repair my plane. So in short there's nothing wrong with being a newbie as long as you have the right people to train you....Just my two cents

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Re: My question is: - 7/19/2003 2:38:58 AM

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Originally posted by mr_matt
Why do ARF people have such a big chip on their shoulders?

Maybe because they are so tired of having the anti-ARF crowd putting them down ?

I mean why do you even care what a builder thinks if you are having so much fun??

Conversely, if building is so much fun, why are some builders so unhappy that they have to go find some ARFers to p all over ?

BTW - on your Super Bandit - dintcha tell me that you chose composite wings, stab & fin so as to avoid a lot of the building work ? So, no gluing spars to ribs, etc., etc. Geeze Matt - you're nearly an ARF guy yourself - I think we'll have to start calling you NARF-boy

Later,
Gordon

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modeller - 7/19/2003 2:42:36 AM

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Naw Gordon I really get upset with the term "checkbook Modeller" as I have done several times in the AMA discussion forum. the difference is it is one thing to term everyone that has a big prop plane or jet as a checkbook modeller because they have a big expensive plane. What I termed as a checkbook modeller and made sure to point out the type person I am talking about the ones that dont want to take time to learn and grow in the hobby, the ones that can barely fly a trainer then go out and buy some all composite type barf and go kill someone.
not everyone just the new guy with lots of money that hasnt learned to fully fly yet. I have seen this happen a lot. There is a 16 yr old local kid here thats fairly well off (ie gets anything he wants cause family can afford it ) and he crashed 4 trainers cause he wouldnt listen to anyone then went and bought one of them 33% all composite imac style planes and trashed it into the pits trying to fly it himself when he didnt know how to fly. stuff like that is what I am talking about and he isnt the only one I have seen. I dont care if a person can plop down money without blinking go for it IF you know what your doing.

No I dont think ppl all need to scratch build but I would like to see people just getting going at least build a couple kits so they gain enough skills to properly put their Barfs together or to repair them.

My point was with all the barfs out there and a lot of them are crap and need strengthened etc to be safe. you have people with no building skills putting them together. yes thats what they are made for but i think they have ruined it for them people by not allowing people to gain the necessary skills to do repairs etc.

Joe

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Checkbook modelers - 7/19/2003 3:06:41 AM

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Well, my thinking is you can't say "Checkbook modelers" because there are people coming into the hobby who have deep pockets but follow directions. That's what matters if you listen and learn as a newbie, (Like myself) you will do well in the hobby. Everybody has to start out from the begining but I will tell you what when I have the experience that I need I will teach someone else just like my mentor taught me and if everyone did the same the hobby would be much better for it.....

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Why do a lot of Rc fliers have hostility towards ARF's - 7/19/2003 3:21:26 AM

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I'm intrigued by the term 'check book modeller'.

What does a model of a check book look like? I could do with one of those, because the real thing is a bit to scary sometimes.

-David C.

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Hmmmmmm - 7/19/2003 3:26:26 AM